Some tech questions.

[SDRmk2]

I’ve said it before and I will say it again. I don’t claim to be a mechanic specialist but I can do my own $hit :D . Pardon my French. In any case I am I little unclear on a few things.
For example from what I understand on the mk2’s to achieve correct timming according to the Hanes manual: engine should be wormed and idling at 650rpms, then the bypass thing need to be done, then (I use a timing gun) set timing at 10*. My question is what if I set my engine at 15*, is that bad, would that give me any increase in respond or power. Also what if my engine is set at 700rpm’s on idle, any thing bad with that.
As of today my car is idling at 650rpms and set at 15* timing. Before I had my car somewhere around 700rpm’s idle and 10* timing. The way I set the car today it feels a lot smoother during shifting and smoother ride in general. Power wise I have no idea I have not pushed the car yet. Thx.

[Supra Bob]

Thats actually exactly where mine is set. Now, while it means I can't run less than 89 octaine (or 93 in hot weather), it DID take almost .2 seconds off my time in the 1/4 mile, with MUCh better throttle response.

[SDRmk2]

That cool, what time u run the 1/4 mile at. Im O.I/H/E with a Dual Friction CenterForce Clutch 6mge. IF your car is red then wed have twins :D , wait yours is a 84 :x . :P

[Supra Bob]

Well, last I turned was a 16.2@ 85 mph on a G-tech... that was with a cone filter, advanced timing, some tweaking of the afm, and some rather hard driving. my last actual track time was a 16.7 @ 81... and that was bone stock..even to the airfilter.

[FWDsux]

Ahhh, the G-Tech. My VERY first run was a 15.3@90mph in my 83(drop in K&N).....I think it was trying to impress me :shock: Everything after that was/is like 16.1-16.8. What's your HP look like Bob? Highest ave. I've ever gotten was around 138. 84 with K&N and highflow cat. Haven't done it with the headers/exhaust/intake/afm yet....

[Magnus]

I’ve said it before and I will say it again. I don’t claim to be a mechanic specialist but I can do my own $hit :D . Pardon my French. In any case I am I little unclear on a few things.
For example from what I understand on the mk2’s to achieve correct timming according to the Hanes manual: engine should be wormed and idealing at 650rpms, then the bypass thing need to be done, then (I use a timing gun) set timing at 10*. My question is what if I set my engine at 15*, is that bad, would that give me any increase in respond or power. Also what if my engine is set at 700rpm’s on ideal, any thing bad with that.
As of today my car is idealing at 650rpms and set at 15* timing. Before I had my car somewhere around 700rpm’s ideal and 10* timing. The way I set the car today it feels a lot smoother during shifting and smoother ride in general. Power wise I have no idea I have not pushed the car yet. Thx.

Hmmm how to explain this one..

OK, the setting that the books give you are an average setting, not the best power you can run, not the best gas mileage or torque you can get. The earlier your engine can fire the longer your power stroke is. However you do not want the plug to fire before the cylinder reaches DTC, and in my opinion it's best if it's just starting it's down stroke. If it fires before TDC, then the piston is still coming up and wants to go down while its being pushed up by the crankshaft. We call that ping, and ping robs you of power, and can severly damage your engine.

I would not go straight to 15*, as a matter of fact I will be advancing my timing this weekend. A little at a time. I've not changed it since the MSD was added, and I'm convienced that I am not getting the best power, especially since the MSD fires faster than the original coil/setup.

[MKIIBeater]

However you do not want the plug to fire before the cylinder reaches DTC, and in my opinion it's best if it's just starting it's down stroke. If it fires before TDC, then the piston is still coming up and wants to go down while its being pushed up by the crankshaft.

The main/most of the explosions that occur during the opwer stroke do not happen as soon as the plug is fired. As we all know how damn fast the rotating assemblies turn, you shoudl know that when fired before TDC it usually equates to most of the force/burning...etc to happen exactly right ATDC. I do not think that the stck ign. timing recommendation would be giving you a BTDC time if it were going to ping. If I didn't read your post right Imsorry, but the way I took it was that you were telling this guy to put his timing somewhere after TDC, in which case his car woudl probably feel very sluggish.

[CRF_Rider]

Just to clarify the stock recomended timming is 10deg BEFORE top dead center.

I have run up to say 17deg on super and had no pinging or knocking.

And the markings on the timming cover start at 0deg (on the far right) and go back to 20 deg (if memory serves me right).

The futher counterclockwise you set the timming the further you are retarding the timming.

EDIT: I think that sentance is incorrect. advancing the timming means it is firing earlier in the stroke. Can someone verify this? If that is the case then I should have said "advancing" not "retarding" in the previous sentance. My bad. Long week.

You could not accuratly set the timming (with just a timming light and a 12mm box end) to 15 deg AFTER top dead center because there is no refrance point for the harmonic balancer to line up with.

[SDRmk2]

So what would be the ideal setting at. Also what about the idle any harm with it idling over 650.

[CRF_Rider]

I usually ran 12deg btdc. I dont know if this would be ideal for your car but it worked well for me.

Why would you want your idle higher?

[MKIIBeater]

I think that sentance is incorrect. advancing the timming means it is firing earlier in the stroke. Can someone verify this? If that is the case then I should have said "advancing" not "retarding" in the previous sentance. My bad. Long week.



That what I meant :D About the advancing thing, I think he was talking about retarding it so much it would spark ATDC which is silly...

Anyhow the idle thing is fine. As long as its withing abotu 150rpm + or - of 650rpm you are good to go dude :wink:

[Magnus]

However you do not want the plug to fire before the cylinder reaches DTC, and in my opinion it's best if it's just starting it's down stroke. If it fires before TDC, then the piston is still coming up and wants to go down while its being pushed up by the crankshaft.

The main/most of the explosions that occur during the opwer stroke do not happen as soon as the plug is fired. As we all know how damn fast the rotating assemblies turn, you shoudl know that when fired before TDC it usually equates to most of the force/burning...etc to happen exactly right ATDC. I do not think that the stck ign. timing recommendation would be giving you a BTDC time if it were going to ping. If I didn't read your post right Imsorry, but the way I took it was that you were telling this guy to put his timing somewhere after TDC, in which case his car woudl probably feel very sluggish.

No, I was saying that you want it to fire (explode) at TDC or a little after. I did not go into the explaination that you did, because I figure that we all know that already.

[Magnus]

Just to clarify the stock recomended timming is 10deg BEFORE top dead center.

I have run up to say 17deg on super and had no pinging or knocking.

And the markings on the timming cover start at 0deg (on the far right) and go back to 20 deg (if memory serves me right).

The futher counterclockwise you set the timming the further you are retarding the timming.

EDIT: I think that sentance is incorrect. advancing the timming means it is firing earlier in the stroke. Can someone verify this? If that is the case then I should have said "advancing" not "retarding" in the previous sentance. My bad. Long week.

You could not accuratly set the timming (with just a timming light and a 12mm box end) to 15 deg AFTER top dead center because there is no refrance point for the harmonic balancer to line up with.

I have an 82 and the book says 8*BTDC @ max 950 rpm

[Tanya]

OK I"m bringing back this thread from the dead before I do a "repost" and have someone screaming SEARCH at me! LOL

I am trying to figure out my timing for dyno day this Saturday.
#1. No I do not having a timing light :?
#2. Should the timing be any different now that the head has been shaved? ( 210psi )
#3. Which way in turning the distributor is what? I was told counter-clockwise is advancing. I was also told to get the best power, turn it over to where you start hearing sprak knock, then turn it back a little.

#4.Here's my dilemma, I was messing w/ the timing yesterday, and turned the distributor all the way over in both directions and I never heard a "spark knock", or unless I am confusing it w/ the sound I have always heard in my 5MGEs, which I thought was the quiet ticking of the fuel injectors firing. Help! I have no idea what spark knock should sound like. Is it loud or quiet or what?
Anyway, when I turned the dist. all the way clockwise the engine almost stalled, so I decided that wasn't a good idea, ha
All the way counter clockwise appears to do nothing except to lower the idle a wee bit. I tried running the car this way, it seemed to rev faster, but move slower than how it was originally set. So I set the distributor back in the middle b/c I was tired of trying to figure this out. I have it running where the engine seems to be idling the strongest, but yet it seems to be "missing". Not constantly, and hardly even noticeable, but if you watch the engine for a minute it will shake then smooth out, run smooth then shake real quickly again and stop. My spark plugs are all clean and gapped to factory specs and my plug wires are brand new.
I'm wondering if my spark plug gap should be increased due to having higher compression? Anyone?

I really need all the help I can, I've noticed a big difference in gas mileage, but according to the math, I'm still only getting 16.25mpg
:shock: whereas my old engine was apparently getting only 11mpg! ( city miles )
Not just for the gas mileage, I'm pretty happy where it's at right now, but I'm trying to pull the best dyno #s I can Saturday. I've never dyno'd anything before and would like to be pleased that all the hardship I've gone through has actually meant something.

[Ross]

If you don't have a timing light, or don't trust the timing marks, you can try "power timing"
What this means is advance the timing a little, try accelerating up a steep hill in a high gear, preferably 4th, and listen for a tinkle.
(sort of sounds like someone rattling keys)
If no tinkle, advance some more and repeat.
Keep advancing and repeating until tinkle can just be heard.
Then retard just a little until tinkle can no longer be heard.

I just realised you car has a knock sensor, which means the above won't work. When the knock sensor informs the ecu of knock (ping, pink, tinkle, whatever you want to call it), the ecu automatically retards the timing.

Beg, borrow or steal a timing light.

[Tanya]

actually Ross, my engine doesn't have a knock sensor, it's an 84 engine
:D
but here's a big problem, there are no hills in Florida, nevermind "steep" ones
:(

[dohc82]

Buy a timing light. We dont need a fancy one. A basic one works fine. I paid 45.00CAN for mine. I tried timing by ear and thought I had it set well. It would idle smooth and seemed OK until around 4000 then it would shake and lose power. When I finally bought a timing light I found my timing (by ear) was at 6 degrees BTDC :shock: Stock for my year is 8 so I set it to 10 and it had much better power.

Stock timing is different for the years.

82 is 8 degrees btdc
83 same as 82 I think
84-86 10 degrees btdc
someone will correct me if I am wrong :)

[Tanya]

yeah I guess I'm going to have to get one eventually, but what I am trying to figure out, is my engine is NOT stock anymore, so I don't know if I should go by stock specs.
I need to know if my spark plugs need to be opened up a little more, or the timing should be set at a different advancement than stock 5MGEs.

I do believe my timing is already at 10BTDC, or at least that's what I set it at when I lined everything up. but I guess only a light can tell
:?

[Junkie]

I do believe my timing is already at 10BTDC, or at least that's what I set it at when I lined everything up. but I guess only a light can tell
:?

You set it like this when you istalled a new belt,or you had a light on it after you put it together.
If you put it together with the timing mark at 10btdc,and the cams straight up,might be why you are having starting problems in your other thread.

[Tanya]

whoops
I meant to say my crank was positioned at "0" and both cams were set at there marks which led me to believe she was already timed to stock spec.
Tried messing around w/ some more last night b/c our idle seemed to have gotten lower and the engine was loping. She's slightly more advanced but still no noticeable improvement.
Again I turned dist. all the way in both directions and never heard any detonation or spark knock. I'm hoping to be able to borrow a timing light tonight and run some more tests
Dyno day is tomorrow, got to get going on this timing issue

[Dave A.]

If you don't have a timing light, or don't trust the timing marks, you can try "power timing"
What this means is advance the timing a little, try accelerating up a steep hill in a high gear, preferably 4th, and listen for a tinkle.
(sort of sounds like someone rattling keys)
If no tinkle, advance some more and repeat.
Keep advancing and repeating until tinkle can just be heard.
Then retard just a little until tinkle can no longer be heard.

I just realised you car has a knock sensor, which means the above won't work. When the knock sensor informs the ecu of knock (ping, pink, tinkle, whatever you want to call it), the ecu automatically retards the timing.

Beg, borrow or steal a timing light.



You could probably unplug the knock sensor and dial in the timing using the load method that you described above, and then just reconnect the knock sensor once you have the timing set. Try putting some high octane gas in the tank before you set the timing. That will help optimize the timing for the fuel that you're using. I'd leave the spark plug gaps set to stock spec. as well. :)

[Dave A.]

actually Ross, my engine doesn't have a knock sensor, it's an 84 engine
:D
but here's a big problem, there are no hills in Florida, nevermind "steep" ones
:(

Try shifting from 3rd into 5th gear after you've got it wound up and then run WOT in 5th and see if it pings.

[Tanya]

OK I haven't tried the 3rd to 5th thing yet, but I switched over to 93 octane a few days ago so I could tune it right.
I bought a timing light today, and with the connector jumped out, and w/o it jumped, timing was at 20 BTDC. If I moved the timing in either direction it ran like crap. Still no funny noises. If I tried to retard the timing back to 10 BTDC the engine idled real low, and loped badly. She runs best at 20 BTDC, I have no idea why

[Dave A.]

Hmmm...well it's possible that the outer ring on your harmonic balancer may have slipped and is giving you a false reading, although that rarely happens. How low is real low on the idle speed at 10' BTDC? Try increasing the idle speed with the bypass screw under the rubber cap on the TB with the timing set at 10' BTDC and see if that helps smooth out the idle.

[Tanya]

yeah we tried that too, got the engine idle up to 1000rpm and the engine still shook and loped, so we put it back at 20 btdc, reduced the idle to norm, and she runs great
I'm wonder if because the head was shaved it messed w/ the timing?
everything lines up OK, timing belt is tight, etc

[Dave A.]

Well, one way to find out if the cams are in time ( the intake anyway) is to set #1 at 0 TDC, remove the oil filler cap, and see if the hole in the intake cam tower lines up with the hole in the cam.
you mentioned that nothing changed when you shorted the check connector. Try shorting the yellow with black stripe wire in the check connector directly to ground with a jumper lead and see if that makes any difference.