MKIII possible swap to 2JZ-GTE? [Archive] - Toyota CelicaSupra Forums

: MKIII possible swap to 2JZ-GTE?



supranewbie
05-10-2005, 02:02 AM
I hope I dont get flamed for this, but I'm looking into purchasing a 1989 Supra, and I want to put in a new engine. I was wondering will a 2JZ fit into a MKIII or do I have to get a 7MGTE. Also, if the 2JZ will fit into an 89 Supra, which will be able to put out the most HP with mods? Okay, one more question, are there any other engines that will fit inside of an 89 Supra? Again please dont flame me I'm just now looking into Supras and their engines. Any help is greatly appreciated.

-Josh

MWebber
05-10-2005, 02:29 AM
I hope I dont get flamed for this, but I'm looking into purchasing a 1989 Supra, and I want to put in a new engine. I was wondering will a 2JZ fit into a MKIII or do I have to get a 7MGTE. Also, if the 2JZ will fit into an 89 Supra, which will be able to put out the most HP with mods? Okay, one more question, are there any other engines that will fit inside of an 89 Supra? Again please dont flame me I'm just now looking into Supras and their engines. Any help is greatly appreciated.

-Josh

ok, here's the short version.

89's are MKIIIs, they came with 7M-GE and 7M-GTE engines. a 2JZ will fit in either MKII or MKIII. save a LOT of money.

zank
05-10-2005, 03:38 AM
do a search on Supraforums.com or Supramania.com

both are very good forums for mk3's......aka 1986.5-1992 Supra's

supranewbie
05-10-2005, 08:23 PM
Alright thanks for the help. MWebber you said to save up a lot of money, how come? How much will a new 2JZ cost me and how much will a new 7M-GE cost me? Also does anybody know any warehouses that sells Supra engines? Thanks again

pdupler
05-10-2005, 09:29 PM
A running mk4 2jz-gte donor car can run easily $10,000 and front clips from Japan are not far below that. Realize that only 2500 mk4s sold each year and 2000 get beat to hell on the dragstrips. The few mk4s left need those engines and money is no object to those kind of supra owners. Mk3s in addition to having generally a lot more miles because they are older, suffered a similar fate with most falling into the hands of relatively poor people who liked to drag race despite that they really couldn't afford it as a hobby. There are hence few good running mk3 7m-gte donor cars and tho you might find one for under $1000, you need to budget an extra $2000 to $3000 for an engine overhaul. Just remember, whatever you think it will cost, triple that and you might be close. You will be vastly better off to pay a premium, say even $8000 to $10,000 to buy a low-mileage mk3 than you ever will be buying a worn out old jalopy with a bad motor. BTDT too many times over.

supranewbie
05-10-2005, 10:45 PM
Wow... my dreams have just been shattered :( I guess it will take a couple of years now. I think my best bet is to go with the 7MGE/7MGTE but I want a decent amount of hp at least 400 is this possible? and if so what mods can you recommend? Thanks pdulper for the help.

:edit:

I went to motor.ebay.com and I saw 2JZ front clips imported from Japan, and the bids were in the $2k are, but I've given up on the 2JZ because of the work it will take to put it into a MKIII. Also, I've seen 7MGTE's running bids at about $700-1,500k. Now I am really intrested in 7MGTE just hoping it will bring a good amount of hp. Oh and one last thing I've also started looking into 1JZ's and a buddy of mine said he put a 1JZ into his Nissan Sterion, and is going to end up with 600+ hp. Please give me additional advice on the 1JZ and the mods it would take to achieve good hp

MWebber
05-11-2005, 02:12 AM
Wow... my dreams have just been shattered :( I guess it will take a couple of years now. I think my best bet is to go with the 7MGE/7MGTE but I want a decent amount of hp at least 400 is this possible? and if so what mods can you recommend? Thanks pdulper for the help.

a built 7M-GTE will put out 400+ HP with supporting mods, you're MKII won't handle it well without upgrades to the suspension and brakes.

my ~280HP 7M'd MKII will go sideways in 3rd.

In my opinion, I would stay away from the 1JZ, don't get me wrong, it's a great engine, but if something breaks on it... prepare for a LONG wait as parts will have to be shipped in from Japan for the most part. not too many parts swap from 1J to 2J or vice versa.

Mike

RustHole
05-11-2005, 01:02 PM
One thing that I don't see mentioned here: The Getrag 6 spd on the 2jz WILL NOT fit the mk3's tranny tunnel, its too big. Either fabricate and cut-and-weld in a new tunnel and carpeting to fit it (hope the seats still mount in), or get a custom bellhousing to fit the R154 tranny to the 2jz (big $$$). In short: NOT worth it. If it were, you'd see a ton of mk3's with 2jz's in them by now, because the high HP mk3 guys always dream of an easy/cheap 6spd setup.

MWebber
05-11-2005, 01:33 PM
One thing that I don't see mentioned here: The Getrag 6 spd on the 2jz WILL NOT fit the mk3's tranny tunnel, its too big. Either fabricate and cut-and-weld in a new tunnel and carpeting to fit it (hope the seats still mount in), or get a custom bellhousing to fit the R154 tranny to the 2jz (big $$$). In short: NOT worth it. If it were, you'd see a ton of mk3's with 2jz's in them by now, because the high HP mk3 guys always dream of an easy/cheap 6spd setup.

R-154 to JZ bellhousing already exsist. (JZA70)

RustHole
05-11-2005, 02:32 PM
1Jz's bellhousing pattern is the same as 2j??

MWebber
05-11-2005, 03:12 PM
last I heard a friend of mine was getting a 1J bellhousing and mating a 2JZ and R-154 in his MKII.


Mike

supranewbie
05-11-2005, 07:33 PM
Alright, so I guess for a MKIII I'm gonna go with a 7MGTE, hey Mwebber do you think I could get your list of mods on your 7MGTE, if that's not too much trouble. I really want to put out 400+ hp. Oh and another thing, how well do the MKIII's handle? I heard they are really heavy, and push a lot on turns.

MWebber
05-11-2005, 10:23 PM
Alright, so I guess for a MKIII I'm gonna go with a 7MGTE, hey Mwebber do you think I could get your list of mods on your 7MGTE, if that's not too much trouble. I really want to put out 400+ hp. Oh and another thing, how well do the MKIII's handle? I heard they are really heavy, and push a lot on turns.

off the top of my head,

stock 7M-GTE rebuilt, 60 trim ct-26 upgrade @ 10 lbs, walbro fuel pump, custom downpipe, custom 2.5 hard IC pipes, GReddy Type RS BOV, MBC, S-AFC

list of things to do: Lex AFM, 550 injectors, high flow elbow, full 3" turbo back, RRFPR, JK big brakes (or 5 lug conversion w/ bigger brakes) bushings, springs, and a partrige in a pear tree.

MKIIIs are ~800lbs (correct me if I'm off here) heavier than the MKII. I would imagine they are a bit touchy in the corners.

supranewbie
05-12-2005, 02:23 AM
Wow you have a MKIII that is N/A AND it's putting out 400+ hp? How much will you end up with after turbo'd? And correct me if I'm wrong but stock 7M-GTE's come with 280ish HP?

WadeT
05-12-2005, 02:24 AM
Check: http://www.jza70.com/

2jz-gte clips can be had for ~$4500, not 10k. Or as low as $2500 for a 1jz. Those prices almost make me wanna do a jz Mk3 on my 91.

http://www.jarcoinc.com/inventory/halfcuts/

A popular web forum for most of your questions:

http://www.supraforums.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=77

WadeT
05-12-2005, 02:30 AM
One thing that I don't see mentioned here: The Getrag 6 spd on the 2jz WILL NOT fit the mk3's tranny tunnel, its too big. Either fabricate and cut-and-weld in a new tunnel and carpeting to fit it (hope the seats still mount in), or get a custom bellhousing to fit the R154 tranny to the 2jz (big $$$). In short: NOT worth it. If it were, you'd see a ton of mk3's with 2jz's in them by now, because the high HP mk3 guys always dream of an easy/cheap 6spd setup.

Why are you answering a question like this considering you don't even know about the JZA-70 1jz bellhousing? And hacking and welding the tunnel? The v160 is not much bigger than the R154. The shifter just sits back farther.

And yes the 1 and 2JZ blocks are nearly identical - including the bellhousing pattern...
:runaway:

supranewbie
05-12-2005, 04:48 AM
Wow, thanks for your input. So will I see a bigger increase in HP if I got with the 1JZ or the 7M-GTE? and which would cost more to mod?

Norbie
05-12-2005, 07:57 PM
Supra 6-speed fits in a MkIII transmission tunnel, no hacking or welding required. Unfortunately it's a different story if you have a MkII. :(

Supranewbie: the old 7M vs 1JZ debate has been raging for years, and a 7M fan will never be swayed to the 1JZ and vice-versa, so take all opinions with a grain of salt - consider the facts only.

IMO the better engine depends on your power goals. If you're leaving it stock there's no question, 1JZ is the way to go. They're rated at 280hp stock, compared to 230-250 for the 7M. For mild mods (say up to 400hp) the 7M is the easier/cheaper route. Beyond that the 7M gets expensive as it needs internal work to stay reliable, but the 1JZ internals are good for at least 600hp before you have to open it up.

Having said that, the MkIII comes with a 7M from the factory so that's a pretty big advantage to the 7M right there. Engine conversions are a PITA and a smart person would avoid them. Unfortunately I'm not a smart person.

WadeT
05-12-2005, 08:03 PM
Wow, thanks for your input. So will I see a bigger increase in HP if I got with the 1JZ or the 7M-GTE? and which would cost more to mod?

Hard to say. It all depends on your goals and the size of your wallet. :) The 7m vs 1j debate has gone on for years. If it were me personaly, I'd go 7m for too many reasons to list.

7mgte is much cheaper since you got the buy-in cost a front-cut with a 1jz. The great thing about the 7m is that with very few but proper mods a Mk3 can hit high 13s with the stock CT26.

The maxed out twins on a 1jz tend to made around 300rwhp (from everything I've seen)

The maxed out CT26 on a 7mgte will max out at 320rwhp - i've seen it go as high as 350 with the torque in the 400s.

supranewbie
05-12-2005, 09:52 PM
So is it possible to get more than 400 HP with a 7M-GTE? Because I'm leaning towards the 7M-GTE now, 1JZ is out of the question... too expensive. Been doing a bit of researching myself :)

KurtW85
05-12-2005, 10:46 PM
As they posted earlier you would need to break in to the block and valvetrain to get 400+ but simply you can get that power. There are guys that Dynoed at SILV with 600+ on a 7m but that takes a whole lot of money and time. Why do you want 400hp? Id say just do the basic mods and you should be good. The 7m also will make more torque than 1jz. The 1jz are sick though and I would love to see a couple in person. (SILV) I think the more power the better but only if you need it for something. (fun)

Good luck and have some fun.

RustHole
05-12-2005, 10:56 PM
Why are you answering a question like this considering you don't even know about the JZA-70 1jz bellhousing? And hacking and welding the tunnel? The v160 is not much bigger than the R154. The shifter just sits back farther.

And yes the 1 and 2JZ blocks are nearly identical - including the bellhousing pattern...
:runaway:

Have you succesfully put a V160 in a MK3? if not, then you are about as qualified as I am in the topic of V160 into Mk3 swap. As for the 1J bellhousing part, I never even considered swapping a 2j into my Mk3 as soon as I heard the 6spd doesn't fit, so my research ended there. So you know about the 1J bellhousing... yay, you feel better about yourself now? relax pal, we are all here to learn a thing or two. If you like flaming, go to suprforums. At least Norbie was cool about correcting me, and I respect that and leart something new. Thanks Norbie!

WadeT
05-12-2005, 11:54 PM
So is it possible to get more than 400 HP with a 7M-GTE? Because I'm leaning towards the 7M-GTE now, 1JZ is out of the question... too expensive. Been doing a bit of researching myself :)

400 at the wheels or crank?

Well, for starters: upgraded CT26, big intercooler/hard pipes, 550s, 1:1AFPR, 3" exhaust w/3" elbow, boost controler, SAFC, K&N filter, Walbro FP, upgraded clutch and some tuning. :) HKS MHG and ARP studs are also recommended.

You can get some good results for only 1k though. 3" exhaust, MBC, K&N drop-in and run about 11psi or ~280rwhp.

WadeT
05-12-2005, 11:58 PM
Have you succesfully put a V160 in a MK3? if not, then you are about as qualified as I am in the topic of V160 into Mk3 swap. As for the 1J bellhousing part, I never even considered swapping a 2j into my Mk3 as soon as I heard the 6spd doesn't fit, so my research ended there. So you know about the 1J bellhousing... yay, you feel better about yourself now? relax pal, we are all here to learn a thing or two. If you like flaming, go to suprforums. At least Norbie was cool about correcting me, and I respect that and leart something new. Thanks Norbie!

You're right. I wasn't trying flame or jump down your throat there commander. Although, you sound fairly confident in that detailed post about the swapping a v160, so no need to get so defensive. :ugh:

supranewbie
05-13-2005, 02:02 AM
As they posted earlier you would need to break in to the block and valvetrain to get 400+ but simply you can get that power. There are guys that Dynoed at SILV with 600+ on a 7m but that takes a whole lot of money and time. Why do you want 400hp? Id say just do the basic mods and you should be good. The 7m also will make more torque than 1jz. The 1jz are sick though and I would love to see a couple in person. (SILV) I think the more power the better but only if you need it for something. (fun)

Good luck and have some fun.


Hehehe I want 400+ HP cuz I wanna be able to take it to Willow Springs, and have some fun ;) I've grown up around fast cars, so driving anything slower than the standard I'm used to makes driving boring. Also my cousin just imported a Nissan Skyline r34 from Japan, and I wanna show him how much better Supras are. I'm a little sketching on his mods but he said it's a 10 sec car.

RustHole
05-13-2005, 11:42 AM
You're right. I wasn't trying flame or jump down your throat there commander. Although, you sound fairly confident in that detailed post about the swapping a v160, so no need to get so defensive. :ugh:

I was just quoting an Aussie who personally told me back in the day that his 2Jz with the V160 in his Mk3 required him to cut the tranny tunnel to fit, and told me to forget about the exact same swap that the person who started this thread was considering because the money spent would be better put into the 7M. Just adding my 1 cent for disscussion, that's all; Since nobody mentioned anything about the tranny I thought I would say something. It's cool man, no hard feelings. You have, however, resparked my interest in this v160 thing, so I took the measurements of a V160 and compared it to my R154 thats sitting on the ground. I know a tape measure isnt the most accurate thing, but other than length they seem around the same girth. Has anyone seen/know of a succcesful V160 swap into a MK3 and be able to tell me what's involved?

Ross
05-14-2005, 11:04 AM
Hehehe I want 400+ HP cuz I wanna be able to take it to Willow Springs, and have some fun ;) I've grown up around fast cars, so driving anything slower than the standard I'm used to makes driving boring. Also my cousin just imported a Nissan Skyline r34 from Japan, and I wanna show him how much better Supras are. I'm a little sketching on his mods but he said it's a 10 sec car.

I'd hate to even think about the amount of money it would take to get a MkIII into the 10s :runaway:

Mike Morris
05-14-2005, 01:51 PM
Driven them both and messed with both. The 1J to me is more fun to drive. People talk about torque but 1J with 430 gears will rev so fast its not a factor. Both are great motors but in terms of design the 1J is better,stronger and has more potential with stock internals and stock head/cam. If I was shooting for 500RWHP and above I would go 1J but thats me. I think 500RWHP is the limit for 7Ms with stock bottom ends in terms of reliability for everyday use and punishment. No one is a loser or wrong for sticking with one motor above another one. The 1J is a newer design so it should be that way. I personally think your performance goals dictate what motor you should be running. If a guy wants to run high 12s or low 13s both will suffice. However a 1J swap is going to cost serious cash and time and for some people that is stupid on a car that is worth 1-5 grand. Of course for high mileage 7M cars a 1J might actually be cheaper(see below)

7M turbo is an afterthought hence the crazy route of the intercooling piping etc... 1J was designed with high performance in mind a turbo from day one. Sorry but that is a fact.

The 7M MAF meter is unreliable and super expensive to replace.

Everyone knows about the head gasket problem with 7Ms. However most don't fix the problem correctly. This means having the head and block checked out(most of the time the block is okay). Supras driving around with 70-140K on blown headgaskets warps the head. Sorry but that is the truth. People complain about the blowing gaskest more than once but don't have an answer when you ask if the block and head were checked.

7M doesn't like to rev. Cams can solve that but on a long stroke motor I think its crazy to use them. Destroke the car-run some cams. Expensive though

DRIVE BOTH,see what you like and while weighing your options(miles on car-how fast you want to go,money you have to work with,condition of your current set up) work out a plan.. They are way different and even sound different.

Some serious distorted facts here. A 1J head with stock valves with outflow a 7M head with stock valves with port work per Steve Hoff who has ported more 1J/2J and 7M heads than anyone I know.

1Js havs MORE mods available than 7Ms. They just for the most part are not available in the states.

7Ms don't tolerate low oil levels. A lot of kids take a ragged out car with blow by,leaking on the way out CT26s,don't cheakc the oil,don't fix oil leaks,use cheap oil, and no valve seals-mod it and when it breaks say the 7M is a POS. If you buy one and want to mod the 7M-you should do a leak down test and compression test right away. Also check out the turbo. If it pans out THEN mod the car. If you get machine work done on a rebuild you go to a race shop now stock rebuilder. MK3 people for the most part are cheap and will cut corners. In a 7M to go fast you need a good platform and you need to fully restore the car. PERIOD. Again this means keeping up on things like cam cover gaskets(if they leak good by CPS),ignition problems,coolant,oil level and wire harness condition. Unlike other turbo Toyotas there is no real cooling provisions(ie turbo hoods) for turbo MK3s so heat soak wreaks havoc on everything. You must monitor these things and stay on top of it.

Ran my 7M from 2000-2002 hitting 118-120MPH traps and driving it everywhere. Street raced it and beat the hell out of it. Busted a ringland when a friend borrowed the car and ran boost through it(plugs were fouled because of crappy rebuild by ITS on the Turbonetics crap turbo-I told him not to run it hard).
http://ww2.mk3.us:8870/mike/suprapi...=9-DSC01341.jpg
Lucked out and found a low mile 7M JDM motor(41K on it).
http://ww2.mk3.us:8870/mike/suprapi...9-DSC013442.jpg

REPLACED everything while I had the car apart-I mean everything-coil packs,CPS,oil pump,hoses,wiring harness,hoses,ignitor with new pieces...
http://ww2.mk3.us:8870/mike/suprapic3.asp
http://ww2.mk3.us:8870/mike/suprapi...ler-parts-2.jpg

Over kill? Yup and expensive and maybe silly considering my car didn't even have 100K on it. But I can beat the car,drive it anywhere and not worry about anything for the most part(check the oil everyday though). Its like a new car. Be prepared to pay if you want to play with an older model turbo car. A 1J might actually be cheaper for you if you have a 250,000 mile 7M because most 1J clips are low miles.

The 1J is a stronger,better designed motor due to its age-Ie its newer and replaced the 7M in the home market and was viewed by Toyota as its top of the line Supra power plant. Its also is very fun to drive and can make serious HP with stock internals. But a 7M might be a better choice for someone who is not into speed, wants doesn't want to spend 3-6 grand to convert,doesn't have the know how or ability to convert and who wants to challenge of going seriously fast with the underdog.

Some of you guys might remember the 1J Mk3 at Damon's shop. It dynoed 330RWHP with an intercooler,exhaust,ebc,intake and afpr. With a Y pipe and a 1 piece drivershaft it would even go faster. Best time on drag radials was 12.7 at 111MPH. Spools fast and very fun to drive. Heavy Mk3 too(89 targa top car with abs).

supranewbie
05-15-2005, 02:02 PM
Hmm... I guess I'm going to have to save up some more money then. By the sounds of it the 1JZ is worth it's price. Thanks guys this thread has been very helpful from people with first hand experience.

Norbie
05-16-2005, 03:38 AM
Has anyone seen/know of a succcesful V160 swap into a MK3 and be able to tell me what's involved?
Stenno from Sydney has successfully done this. According to his site the trans tunnel requires minor massaging in a couple of places, but that's all.

http://www.turbosupras.com/pages/en/pages/technical/a70%20engine%20conversion.htm

WadeT
05-16-2005, 07:20 PM
I'd hate to even think about the amount of money it would take to get a MkIII into the 10s :runaway:

A lot less than what it would take to make a MK2 run in the 10s...

williamb82
05-16-2005, 10:10 PM
A lot less than what it would take to make a MK2 run in the 10s...

not really. when you do basic gutting mods to save weight, that puts both cars in diff classes. mkii will require the same standalone as a mkiii and suspension components are cheaper for the mkii and as far as the th400 conversion is, same price on both cars. motors will need to be built the same, etc.. as long as you start on the car with the sole purpose of going 10's, all the money can be spent apropriatly and a mkii will cost less to get into the 10's. mkiii would require more power. and power costs $$$

WadeT
05-16-2005, 11:17 PM
not really. when you do basic gutting mods to save weight, that puts both cars in diff classes. mkii will require the same standalone as a mkiii and suspension components are cheaper for the mkii and as far as the th400 conversion is, same price on both cars. motors will need to be built the same, etc.. as long as you start on the car with the sole purpose of going 10's, all the money can be spent apropriatly and a mkii will cost less to get into the 10's. mkiii would require more power. and power costs $$$

Are you kidding?? Just to even get the power to do it, you need to do a 7mgte swap with the MK2. In the MK3 it's already there. And who said anything about automatics? The fact of the matter is that the 7mgte, R154 and rear diff in the Mk3 can take you to 10s. In the Mk2; however, they all need to be replaced and reinforced. Hell, then there's the suspension part of it... :ugh:

Ross
05-17-2005, 09:43 AM
A lot less than what it would take to make a MK2 run in the 10s...

I'm not really into stripped race cars, so how much hp (and dollars) would it take to get a 3800 pound car into the 10s?
And how much hp and dollars to get a 3200lb car into the 10s?

I reckon the difference in the hp required would be enough dollars to do an engine, gearbox and diff swap into a mkii.



All the above is just my thoughts, I don't have any facts to support them :)

bones
02-15-2012, 11:01 PM
I just got through doing alot of reasearch on the 2jz swap. If you have the money i say go for it you can get huge hp gains with it. Plus you can mate up the r-154 to the 2jz with a 1jz bellhousing and flywheel and u can keep the 1jz clutch and all of that. Like stated before me if u want to put the 6 speed in it will take some massaging. The only thing with the 2jz is you will need a rear sump oil pan, unless you get the 2jz from the MK4 supra witch already has it and if you want to keep the twin turbo on the 2jz you have to dent in the firewall to fit it, or you could go single turbo and ur fine. If you worried about wireing (spell check) you can send the 7m harness and the 2jz harness to Dr. Tweak and he will send u a plug and play harness. If you have the money i would suggest this swap. :thumbsup:

bones
02-15-2012, 11:05 PM
I just realized how old this was :(

ra24man
02-16-2012, 02:30 AM
You dug up a fossil alright.

mk2 robbie
02-16-2012, 12:44 PM
I started reading this through and realised I read through it a few years ago when I was debating a 2j swap into my 84 lmfao... then I looked at the date and wondered why the hell it was at the top of the list :zzzzz:

DORAGON_2JZ
02-18-2012, 06:21 PM
on the cheap you can do 2jzge... as a matter fact I got 2 available if anyone is interested...