Wrecked my supra tonight with a freak accident

[intelwalk]

Took my buddy riding around tonight for about 10min in the supra tonight after we been cruisin in his 200x matrix he got. go to turn into the road by our car wash in town when all of sudden my brakes lock up. Now my brakes been acting funny lately, just only seem to be losing just a very small amount of pressure when i press the pedal. I could tap it couple times and pedal felt like it built up the pressure again. When they locked up it acted HORRIBLY funny. I turned the wheel and nothing happened. The curb was one that was on the corner higher up as you seein the pic. All i can tell mechanical thats wrong with it is the oil pan needs replaced and the Strut tower assemblies are gone, but no dmg to the inside the engine bay strut tower things. Guess you can say a clean snap of the bolts. But teh odd thing is the way it happened. I was walking around it and noticed a white chalky line all the way following hte left tire, and for the right i had black treadmarks from the lockup. It looks like it SKATED on a piece of hard plastic that was caught in the center treadline of the falken tires. As per the picture you can see all this. Any thoughts on being able to repair this and comments on how it might have happened? I was going about 25-30 decelarating at the time, applied my brake and then just started to make the turn, and then WHAM it happened. I was not hot roddin around at all. My buddy in the car could vouch for that and every freakin person sittin at the car wash saw it too :(. I dont want to make excuses and i couldnt decide which category to put this in, but i know this should not have happened. Does this look like a FREAK incident? Thanks for the input, and now i must cry myself to sleep now :sadsmilie

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b395/intelwalk/DSCF0605.jpg
http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b395/intelwalk/DSCF0603.jpg
http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b395/intelwalk/DSCF0621.jpg <- removed from center treadline, it was clearly above the tread and had to pryed out.

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b395/intelwalk/DSCF0609.jpg
http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b395/intelwalk/DSCF0610.jpg

[Andrew]

WHOA.. thats crazy! Hope you decide to fix her up, good luck.

[Supra5MGTE]

oh that sux. i'm sorry man. the chalk line you see is from the metal parts dragging across the road. You got some work ahead of ya.

[Supra Bob]

From the size of it, that plastic thingy would have to be hella strong to support 1/4 the weight of the car. Sounds like to me that the steering arm came loose and got sucked under the tire...hence the no response from the steering and the skidding you hear intially was not the brakes, but the fact that the drivers side front tire had gone full lock either left or right... Been in a car that had this happen and it was like exactly what you described.


Sorry about your loss...

[intelwalk]

:( Thanks for the info Bob, I dont know what im going to do. I wasnt sure what happened, just saw no tire marks on one side and the chalky lookin line on the other

[BillyM]

I'm with bob, tought luck man, sorry to hear it.

--BillyM

[intelwalk]

I can replace these parts or whats the consensus on that? Is it too far gone ya think?

[walkerhiboost]

Dave,
Please send pics of the strut tops under the hood, any other available pics of drivers and passenger front, etc. Need those asap. pics of the wheels also....not worried about the tires, we have road hazard on them from Sears.

[KurtW85]

That sucks, sorry. and it all depends on the cross member under the oil pan and the strut towers. As longs as those arnt f ed up than its just time and money.

[RICKY77531]

bummer man fix her though she looks hurt but repairable..........

[WadeT]

When things start to feel funny with the brakes, they are clear signs that something needs to inspected/replaced. I really can't see any reason the brakes would lock intervertantly. It takes pressure or force to engage them. I can see total lose of brake pressure leading to complete fade out but locking up? C'mon... :rolleyes:

Call me a jerk but it looks like someone was speeding, couldn't make the turn, couldn't brake good enough, and plowed into the curb. And, I've never, ever heard of steering arms comming loose on these cars.

It will cost more to repair the car to an unmolested state than what it's worth, imo.

[airwhirlybird]

bummer man

good luck on fixing her

if its any consalation, my supra has been in 3 accidents and been totalled twice :(

[Chris Sullins(STIX)]

Had to have been a steering failure if you look at the last pic your driver tire is turned but the pass is still going strait.. Id say you had a tie rod snap while turning and slam your planted in the curb..The kid i bought mine from had the same thing happen to him only doing like 55 trying to cut a corner.. The pass tierod snapped and it threw him into the curb..He got it fixed cost him like $1500 but it drives strait as can be still..Good luck man ,and keep her going..

[Dave A.]

You stated that the upper strut support studs sheared w/o damaging the strut towers. :hsugh: I can't quite see how that's possible. My thought is that: (1) The rubber center portion on the upper strut supports that bolt to the top of the strut towers and support the upper strut rod bearings was worse for wear, dry rotted, and ready to let loose at the worst possible moment. (2) Perhaps the drivers side strut rod worked it's way out of the rotted rubber bearing support while attempting to brake and steer around the righthand curve. (3) With the brakes still applied, the drivers side strut assembly rotated forward, causing you to further lose steering control and head for the curb. (4) The left front wheel and tire were cocked just enough to the left before impact to allow the curb to position the wheel completely sideways upon impact. (5) The force of the impact busted the lower front suspension parts on the drivers side.

Interesting that the white scrape line appears to be completely straight. I would expect more of a curved line in this scenario, but perhaps the abrupt turn to the right began further back than what is seen in the photos??? The 1st photo shows only a straight, white scrape line and a faint tire pattern on the right side. (What took place further back on the road that isn't shown in the photos)??? The lack of serious rubber on the pavement from a dragging tire on the drivers side would support theory #(4).

Take another look under the hood and double check to see if the drivers side upper strut support is actually still securely bolted to the strut tower.



Hope no one got hurt!!!

[lil'devil]

Try and explain that one to the cops....Piss poor luck man....I'm sure it'll be up and running soon with new suspension that is Upgraded.

[Dave A.]

Question: Did you by chance happen to make a swerve to the left just before things started to go wrong?? If so, weak struts and/or springs could've allowed the right front to squat and the left front to raise enough to allow the left front strut rod to drop out of the upper rubber mount. I/we need more info as to what took place "before" the point where things went wrong.

[intelwalk]

no swerving or nothing, only had the car out maybe 15 min at the most. Took my buddy for a ride, showing him how nice it rode with the struts/springs/sway bars installed. I wasn't speedin or hot roddin it. I was 2 blocks from the police station for 3 hours while it was there and waiting for wrecker adn they never came by. Everyone hangin out at the car wash saw it. i was goin about 30 and then broke and then started to make the turn. no radical steering wheel turn. i didnt get on in the middle of town cause exhaust is so loud. We lost no speed goin toward the curb after started, then just popped up on the curb. We got out adn then was like WTF. In the pic you can see teh drainage ditch in the curb and its higher than the normal curbs. I'll take more pics tomorrow of the strut towers rubber piece

[Chrisfrom1986]

pics 2 and 4 kill me. tie rods breaking are no fun =[ goodluck with the rebuild

[4SFED]

Did you change struts/springs recently?

BTW, what is PWNED? with Bruce Lee

[walkerhiboost]

Hey WadeT your a JERK!!!

[WadeT]

Thanks bud. :)

[novicius]

Call me a jerk but it looks like someone was speeding, couldn't make the turn, couldn't brake good enough, and plowed into the curb. And, I've never, ever heard of steering arms comming loose on these cars. Or they were trying to drift around the curve. :woot: :rolleyes:

Sucks all the same -- good luck!

[buggrin]

If you love the car find some parts and put it back together. My 85 ate a Mustang right where you ate the curb. Front left tire came up into the floorboard & tore up my foot & left side. Mine was much worse but now with the use of another parter it's back to its old self. The money out was WAAAY outa line but I love that car & bought it new in 85.

[intelwalk]

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b395/intelwalk/S4010142.jpg
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http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b395/intelwalk/S4010147.jpg



closer pics of the stuff

[SupraFiend]

Is the tie rod end on the DS broken? It looks to me like the top of the strut broke free while your driving (not at all unlikely considering how those bushings corrode when they get old, pretty common really) and triggered all of this. That breaking would have caused the top of the strut to slam into the front of the wheel well, which would screw up your castor so bad that the tire would be riding on the rim while it turns. This could have put so much stress onto the balljoint that it broke free before it even hit the curb. Might have been after but it does look like your tire was 90 degrees to the car pointing to the left before you hit the curb. Note the other tire just blew out and hopped the curb, as it was pointing roughly towards the curb instead of away from it.

Now heres a question for you. Is the top of the strut that goes through the piece still attached to the strut tower sheered off or is there just no nut to be found and the threads are still intact? I'm wondering if you torqued that nut to spec or even remembered to install it. That top nut coming loose could easily have caused all of this, and you just redid all of your suspension lately. I highly advise anyone who does their own suspension work to check all your major bolts for tightness at least a couple times after driving the car for a bit when your done your work.

Anyways, looks repairable, you just need a bunch of suspension parts. Or is the cross member damaged from the curb? If thats straight you shouldn't have too much work on your hands.

[drftsupramk2]

Anyways, looks repairable, you just need a bunch of suspension parts. Or is the cross member damaged from the curb? If thats straight you shouldn't have too much work on your hands- yeah man and will still have less body damage than mine. repair it Wade's just a fiend-large

[walkerhiboost]

I torqued everything down after installing all the front suspension.....

Does anyone think that the struts will still be any good?

[SupraFiend]

depends, show us the pictures of what the tops of them look like. If the one that let go looks perfect and theres no nut on it, then I'd say you missed that one.

When I installed my Cusco camber plates, I torqed the bolt on the top that the cusco unit replaces with a special one down to the stock torque specs for the original strut top bolt, which is around 30ft/lbs. After a couple days I tried loosening them by hand and they had loosened up. I torqued them to 50lbs and its been fine every since. The stock nuts should be ok at the stock torque specs though.

[Dave A.]

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b395/intelwalk/S4010142.jpg
http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b395/intelwalk/S4010139.jpg
http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b395/intelwalk/S4010140.jpg
http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b395/intelwalk/S4010141.jpg
http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b395/intelwalk/S4010143.jpg
http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b395/intelwalk/S4010145.jpg
http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b395/intelwalk/S4010146.jpg
http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b395/intelwalk/S4010147.jpg



closer pics of the stuff






The pics appear to support my theory. It's not uncommon for the rubber in the upper strut supports to deteriorate like that with age. The problem is that a lot of peeps don't fully understand what can happen if the deteriorated rubber goes left unnoticed and not replaced when needed. I think new upper strut support assemblies are still available from Toyota. Probably expensive like most other MKII parts, but well worth the money to prevent something as catastrophic like this from happening.

I hope everyone who owns a MKII that is a member of cs.com is reading or has read this thread so that they can examine the upper strut supports on their cars!
I say we pass the word on to anyone that we know who owns a MKII to take a close look at the condition of the rubber in their upper strut supports.

What about making this post/thread a sticky??

[Dave A.]

Might have been after but it does look like your tire was 90 degrees to the car pointing to the left before you hit the curb. Note the other tire just blew out and hopped the curb, as it was pointing roughly towards the curb instead of away from it.

The left wheel pretty much had to be reasonably straight before it hit the curb or there would've been a trail of rubber behind it from the tire dragging on the pavement.


Now we need a pic. of the left strut rod to see if the nut is intact or missing. I'm guessing that it's still on the rod. If it weren't, the spring would be floating around free on the strut or seperated from the strut altogether.

[williamb82]

Had to have been a steering failure if you look at the last pic your driver tire is turned but the pass is still going strait.. Id say you had a tie rod snap while turning and slam your planted in the curb..The kid i bought mine from had the same thing happen to him only doing like 55 trying to cut a corner.. The pass tierod snapped and it threw him into the curb..He got it fixed cost him like $1500 but it drives strait as can be still..Good luck man ,and keep her going..

i just changed the rack on my blue 85 like 3 weeks ago cause i had a serious vibration in the steering wheel. both inner tierods were shot. i swapped the rack just so something like this wouldnt happen. now im really glad i did. hope you fix it.

[williamb82]

no swerving or nothing, only had the car out maybe 15 min at the most. Took my buddy for a ride, showing him how nice it rode with the struts/springs/sway bars installed. I wasn't speedin or hot roddin it. I was 2 blocks from the police station for 3 hours while it was there and waiting for wrecker adn they never came by. Everyone hangin out at the car wash saw it. i was goin about 30 and then broke and then started to make the turn. no radical steering wheel turn. i didnt get on in the middle of town cause exhaust is so loud. We lost no speed goin toward the curb after started, then just popped up on the curb. We got out adn then was like WTF. In the pic you can see teh drainage ditch in the curb and its higher than the normal curbs. I'll take more pics tomorrow of the strut towers rubber piece


new suspension sounds like you didnt put something back together correctly.

[williamb82]

i got a chance to look at the pics. ive seen mkii's like that in the junkyard wit hthe rubber busted liek that. it wont allow the wheel to do what yours did though, i think something else let loose first to allow the strut assemly to drop enough or be pulled down out of place like that. id check it all out on both sides.

[walkerhiboost]

The car had been sitting for a LONG period of time...The car did need front brake lines and the steering rack boots were gone..

[Dave A.]

i got a chance to look at the pics. ive seen mkii's like that in the junkyard wit hthe rubber busted liek that. it wont allow the wheel to do what yours did though, i think something else let loose first to allow the strut assemly to drop enough or be pulled down out of place like that. id check it all out on both sides.


Hmmmm, so you're thinking that perhaps the tie rod let loose first and then the strut got pulled out if it's socket after impact? Could be!

[williamb82]

yeah, that makes alot more sense to me. when the rubber drops, the top of the strut still doesnt have much room to move. and it takes alot to lift the car high enough for that to drop out. . the tire hitting the curb and bending the control arm could do it.


heres what i think happened. he forgot to put the cotter pin back in the tie rod end and didnt have the nut tight enough to begin with. while cruising it backed of and the tierod came loose. he turned a lil and the wheel folded sideways making him THINK the brakes locked up when they actually didnt and the white mark on the concrete is from the tierod trying to dig in. then he hit the curb and it ripped the rubber strut insulator apart and cause the other damage as well. id bet money that wheel was sideways the whole way to the curb,

[Dave A.]

yeah, that makes alot more sense to me. when the rubber drops, the top of the strut still doesnt have much room to move. and it takes alot to lift the car high enough for that to drop out. . the tire hitting the curb and bending the control arm could do it.


heres what i think happened. he forgot to put the cotter pin back in the tie rod end and didnt have the nut tight enough to begin with. while cruising it backed of and the tierod came loose. he turned a lil and the wheel folded sideways making him THINK the brakes locked up when they actually didnt and the white mark on the concrete is from the tierod trying to dig in. then he hit the curb and it ripped the rubber strut insulator apart and cause the other damage as well. id bet money that wheel was sideways the whole way to the curb,



Okay, so why isn't there any rubber on the pavement behind the left wheel leading up to the curb?

[williamb82]

eraser tires. my old bf godrich tires wouldnt leave marks either. i could sit there and burn them all day and no marks. you dont remember the clean spots i left by your house when i first put the 7m in the black car with the 235/60/14's?

[Dave A.]

My days of burning tires used to leave all kinds of black rubber on the pavement. :badger: I guess street tires just aren't what they used to be....very hard rubber compounds that leave more oil trails on the road than rubber. :hsugh:
I just looked at the pics. again and there is a faint trail of rubber on 'both' sides. The trail is shifted to left of center, which means that the back of the car must've shifted to the right after impact.



Storm drains give me the willies. I had an accident in a pickup truck one time when I fell half asleep at the wheel in the right lane on a highway that was pitched to the right. The truck drifted to the right and the right front wheel got sucked in by the storm drain. I woke up just soon enough to keep the truck from jumping the curb. Scared the s--- out of me big time. I parked the truck further up the road, got out, and found that I had two blown tires and two bent wheels. :ugh: And I was not in a nice part of town and had only one spare. Don't ask me how I got the truck home. That's a looong story that I don't care to reiterate. Mainly because the truck belonged to a friend.

Storm drains seem to have a curse as being huge vacuum cleaners that attract rubber tires.

[williamb82]

yeah, the harder the tires, the more miles you get out of them, the worse the handling, and the harder it is to leave marks. now the nittos, they leave marks just fine. :D

[cheappower82]

Looks like we can't fix this with Megasquirt ;)

I've got a P-type in Jasper, AL if you need susp parts

[intelwalk]

Looks like we can't fix this with Megasquirt ;)

I've got a P-type in Jasper, AL if you need susp parts


my bro has found one in a yard and is gonna pull the necessary parts. Hopefully it wont be down too long

[walkerhiboost]

car crushed....no longer in the yard