MSnS on 7mgte (Tech ?'s)

[2slow4you]

From what I've read, MSnS uses mainly GM stuff like coils and whatnot.

I'm kicking around the idea, for time and money concerns, of using the MSnS sytem to run my 7mgte. I've got the gte coilpacks and the parial harness (hacked at the firewall so nothing from there to the ecu) + the motor I have has all the sensors on it.

I saw where someone used a 5m distributor(removed guts from it) as a CPS...think it was cheap power's 6m project...

Guess I'm basicly asking if it's a possibility to use all the 7mgte stuff instead of GM parts. Keep in mind I've called a shitload of junkyards in a 200mile area and non of them has a 87-88 Turbo pig to pull parts from and my current budget doesn't permit getting a donar car. I'de hate to drag this project past Fall time, MSnS seems to be a cost effective(and easyly sourced) way of getting this motor to run. I'm not looking to half-ass this as once I get this car running I'm going to sell the Hon-Duh to drive my 85 or maybe sell it to someone who can provide it a good home =-)

Thanks in advance for the help or words of wisdom

[4SFED]

I went with SDS for engine management and they also use mostly GM stuff, like the MAP sensor, air temp, water temp, knock sensor, TPS, coil packs, etc.
I tapped 3/8 inch NPT-tapered hole for the GM water temp in the thermostat housing and also in the intake pipe for gm air temp sensor. I used my stock coil packs which were compatible and I used my stock TPS after ohming it out and figuring which 3 out of the 4 connectors I really needed to match the GM type.
I know SDS and MS are two different animals but I am just saying that there's more than one way to do things and you may have to get creative but I cut some corners and had no problems, and yet I also used a couple GM sensors without too much trouble either.

[2slow4you]

Thanks for the intell 4sfed. Since I'm a wiring noob some of this crap is confusing (my dad is an electronics pro).

I'm trying to utilize most of the free yota stuff that came with this motor. Guess I'll browse SF when the time comes for electronics. I think a decent gte wiring harness can be had for ~$120...missing clips arn't much of a concern since I have a spare junk harness =-)

ANy other thoughts on the matter are always accepted

[williamb82]

you can use the stock 7m cps and coils, ts a pain to make the cps work, but if you got a 7mge distributor and modded it like cheap power did hs 5m dizzy, it would work just the same. theres a thread on supramania that has a link to getting the cps working. also, you will need the gm air temp sensor for sure, not sure about the ngine temp. i bought one for mine as it was only ~$15 or so new. the nthe map sensor which the msns should have come with one already. thats pretty much it for the basic sensors. a wideband setup is recomended to help with tuning but not needed.

[MightyAl]

It is no problem to use the stock CPS and a wasted spark set up. The inputs just need to be conditioned. I have done it on the bench and gotten a nice clean signal that the MS could use. If you are new to wiring and electronics the MS is not the way i would point anybody. There is a steep learning curve with this system. I would go with a stock ECU and piggybacks if you are looking for anything around 300hp. You can go to 600hp on a lexus AFM setup with piggybacks. I would do that before attempting to tackle the MS.

[linuxman51]

if you have a spare cps, there's an easier way to achieve the same thing with the 7m goodies.. Remove the two pickups that read the lower wheel (the one with a single pin on it), and then grind off two opposing pins on the 24 tooth wheel. Gives you the same 12-1 wheel setup as if you wired everything up stock. I had some issues trying to get a stock cps to work when I was working on a 7m-gte a couple of months ago, after adjusting the cps a bit it worked like a champ.

[2slow4you]

I think MSnSing it is the way to go, My dad and myself are handy with a soldering iron. I mod Hon-duh ecu's now for Uberdata so a soldering up some MS boards should be easy. I was also looking into maybe a C.O.P setup as well.

William, a wideband setup is in the works as well. Since I know I won't be able to find a local dyno here in WV it's gonna be a DIY tune thing until I get everythign stable. Once that happens, and the money is right, I'll trailer it our of state for a good tune before I put it on the road.

As I said, I'm taking my time with everything: Engine build/management, suspension mods and body work (The fender flares are going to be blended to the body and what not. But nothing to extream). Who knows, by next year my car might be worthy of the calender =-)

[MightyAl]

if you have a spare cps, there's an easier way to achieve the same thing with the 7m goodies.. Remove the two pickups that read the lower wheel (the one with a single pin on it), and then grind off two opposing pins on the 24 tooth wheel. Gives you the same 12-1 wheel setup as if you wired everything up stock. I had some issues trying to get a stock cps to work when I was working on a 7m-gte a couple of months ago, after adjusting the cps a bit it worked like a champ.

This is the way to go if you are running wasted spark. If you use all three pickups the signal likes to get skitchy since it uses a single ground. It can get frustrating if you dont have an o-scope to see what is going on.

[2slow4you]

I'm not going to kill anything if I don't use the waste-spark system? I was under the assumption that was more for smog(I could be wrong there...please correct me if so).

Browsing through msefi.com and looking at a few COP MS setups I never saw any mention of using an ignitor for that coils. Since it's kinda late and I'm tired I may have missed something there. Assuming I do need one, it would probaly be best to use the ignitor for the vehicle I get the coils for.

I haven't decided which car to pull the COPs from yet, I'm attempting to avoid Ford as much as possiable though parts for them in my area are widely avaiable.

The next alternative for ignition I'm looking at running are the HEI coil sets off GM v6 motors(3100, 3400, 3800 and 3800SC motors) as they have a built-in ignition module on the mounting plate.

I'm going to get some sleep and continue some more MS research tommrrow =-)

[MightyAl]

Most people do not use an ignitor and trigger the coils directly from the MS using VB921's. You can trigger 6 COP's using MSnSe, there are a few people doint it but you need all the signals from the stock CPS to do it. Or you can run wasted spark COP which I have seen a few people do and run the simpler to use modified CPS. Ford EDIS and the GM HEI operate in much the same way having a self contained smart ignitor that simply needs a crank signal to operate.

[williamb82]

i plan to go edis and run the stock 7m coils till i finish locating the rest of the stuff or cop. then ill run the cop from the edis. shouldnt be too hard. thing i like about the edis is it has a failsafe. if for any reason it looses signal from the ecu, it runs the ignition at 10deg base in a "limp home mode" so you will still have spark in case something in the ignition circuit goes screwy on the ms. now if that happens, hope the fuel side stays ok, cause if it does you wont need a tow truck. lol.

[2slow4you]

I'm going to search around and see what's going to be more open to me parts wise. I get everything going on used parts once I have it setup and running I'll buy new parts. Reason Im doing this... In case I blow something up I'm not out of an expensive ass new part I can go to the scrap yard and pull another one for less than $20 =-p

I'm gonna toy with it a bit, wiring is on old at the moment because I found out my turbo is shot...or so I think

[Mk2pra]

Check out msefi.com . Theres more than a few people who have run MS on a 7M