Megasquirt thread

[cheappower82]

I occasionally have people asking for VE and spark table numbers, after start enrichment, crank settings, etc., etc.

I've been very slow to respond (sorry, I'm a lazy-ass), but I'm going to try to be pro-active in the future. PM's only inform a limited amount of viewers (the one's who ask for the info), so why not have this info readily available?

For those who want to share their progress (or problems), please post in the following format:

Engine type: i.e., 6M-GE
Ignition style: list its ignition trigger (distributor, Cam Pos Sensor, Crank Pos Sensor, etc), ignition source (MSD, stock ignitor/coil, coil packs, COP, vb921's, etc.), and any VR conditioners (HEI module, Bosch, module, onboard, etc.)
Fuel system: fuel pump(s), injector quantity, size, and resistance, and any other contributing factor regarding fuel
Periferal sensor types/part numbers: MAP/MAF, TPS, Coolant, IAT, and EGO (wideband, narrowband, or none)
MS hardware type: v2.2, v3, etc. (include and addon boards and special board configurations like jumpers and relays)
Software: Megatune version, extra firmware, and any other associated code
Other mods that may further affect MS: non-factory throttlebody, water/meth/alch. injection, engine stroking/destroking, different cams, additional injectors, cold start idle motors/valves, etc

Display screenshots of (if convenient) or describe settings, VE and Spark maps, and configurations in Megatune. You'll find that people choose very different settings to get their specific applications to work well with MT.
Include all periferal sensor readings: coolant temp, intake air temp, EGO, TPS, RPM's, MAP readings, injector PW and duty cycles, etc.
Datalogs are nice, too ;)

Describe any environmental conditions (ambient and intake air temps, barometric pressure or elevation, etc.)



Remember; more information you volunteer offers a greater chance for your situation to be rectified. Let us know what has worked for you and what hasn't. What seems to be insignificant may be detrimental to a future problem, like resistor values, relay setup, wire sizes, etc.

Also remember to fall back on the megasquirt forums http://www.msefi.com Those guys constantly see new problems and promptly try to correct them.

[SilverMk2]

If you want to create a post with important MS info I can go ahead and sticky it if there is a demand.

[BillyM]

*demands*

(and that .doc listing out step by step of how to ms the stock harness)

I still want your base maps...

--BillyM

[cheappower82]

Here's my latest setup:


Late 2007 compilation - 6M-GTE

MS v2.2 board w/*error daughterboard
MT version 2.25p1 w/extra code 029y4

Ignition: distributor, msd6a/accel coil, 36-1 wheel for trigger
Fuel: 720 cc injectors, walbro 255
EGO: LC-1 wideband

Mods: turbo

Settings/Maps:

http://www.pbase.com/celicaxx/image/94991610.jpg

http://www.pbase.com/celicaxx/image/94991611.jpg

http://www.pbase.com/celicaxx/image/94991612.jpg

http://www.pbase.com/celicaxx/image/94991614.jpg

http://www.pbase.com/celicaxx/image/94991615.jpg

http://www.pbase.com/celicaxx/image/94991616.jpg

http://www.pbase.com/celicaxx/image/94991617.jpg

http://www.pbase.com/celicaxx/image/94991618.jpg

http://www.pbase.com/celicaxx/image/94991619.jpg

http://www.pbase.com/celicaxx/image/94991620.jpg

http://www.pbase.com/celicaxx/image/94991621.jpg

http://www.pbase.com/celicaxx/image/94991623.jpg

http://www.pbase.com/celicaxx/image/94991624.jpg

http://www.pbase.com/celicaxx/image/94991625.jpg

http://www.pbase.com/celicaxx/image/94991626.jpg

http://www.pbase.com/celicaxx/image/94991628.jpg

http://www.pbase.com/celicaxx/image/94991629.jpg

http://www.pbase.com/celicaxx/image/94991630.jpg

http://www.pbase.com/celicaxx/image/94991632.jpg

[yumidraco]

so nwho exactly has an megasquirt installed and running on there supra?

[Enchanter]

I have recently swapped in an 86 Cressida 5mge from a 5me (ADM). The car is running on the stock 5mge ECU but as soon as Im happy that it is setup correctly and I have done some "measuring" ie Gtech tests and a few lap times from my local track I will be installing the Megasquirt I have sitting on my computer desk.

1983 Supra (Australian spec) with 5mge (1986 Cressida GLXi with knock sensor)
Megasquirt v3.0 main board
Megasquirt 2 daughter card running 2.6 code

The engine will remain stock as in no performance modifications, (will drop in a worked 2jzge in about 12 months time)

My plan is to use the stock distributor sensors for my ignition trigger and run the coil directly (vb921 circit). Is it going to be that simple or will I find problems with the stock gear ?

Cheers, Tim :)

[SuperSubs]

I can sadly report that I had my car finaly started and idling with megasquirt II V3, but due to a costly electrical fire at the front, now at a dead stop and tearing out all existing wiring and in process of painless wiring.....

[cheappower82]

I can sadly report that I had my car finaly started and idling with megasquirt II V3, but due to a costly electrical fire at the front, now at a dead stop and tearing out all existing wiring and in process of painless wiring.....

Man, that sucks (well congrats on the MS success).

Expand on your v3 board configuration; let everyone know what you had do to the board and what extra circuits you had to build.

I'm thinking of converting to a v3 board and running vb921's, but it would be nice to see how it's working for others

[Enchanter]

I can sadly report that I had my car finaly started and idling with megasquirt II V3, but due to a costly electrical fire at the front, now at a dead stop and tearing out all existing wiring and in process of painless wiring.....

Damn, thats no good with the fire, but atleast the car was running. What did you do for your ignition trigger ?

[Darrow]

Do you think the MS caused the fire? Hope things go better next time.

[celica83_gts]

so nwho exactly has an megasquirt installed and running on there supra?

Well, it's not a Supra, but I have a running MS on my RTE. The engine feels much stronger than with the stock EFI, and since I will be able to control bigger injectors, should have some much better dyno numbers come spring.

I plan to run my 7M swap project on the stock ecu at first, but MS and EDIS will go in as soon as possible.

[Hemiyoda]

so nwho exactly has an megasquirt installed and running on there supra?

I have two M sixes running with MS. A 5M-E and a 5M-GE. My friend Nikwal also runs MS fuel only on his 5M-GE.

Crank trigger (hall sensor + magnets) on the 5M-E. On the -GE I tried first to interface with the 3.0 built in VR circuitry against the -82 distributor but it didn't work out well at low rpms. No patience to experiment with the VR stuff so I switched to the proven crank trigger setup and all is golden.

Stock ECU innards replaced by MS on the 5M-E, stock harness used for everything except the crank trigger. On the 5M-GE I replaced the stock harness connector for an MS DB37 connector. (Pros: Faster install Cons: More difficult to revert to stock)

Both setups use an external bosch single coil module (-124) for spark + the distributor for spark distribution. :)

[cheappower82]

Crank trigger (hall sensor + magnets) on the 5M-E.

Nice! I'd like to see the magnets, and know how they were fastened.

http://hemiyoda.net/bilder/__phpAutoGallery__picLoaderTmp/hemiyoda.net/bilder/Electronics/megasquirt/640_cranktrigger.jpg


Edit**
Nevermind, found it. I'm curious of the details on this procedure. How many magnets total (I guess 3 for two crank revolutions = 6 ignition events)? What size magnets; degrees from TDC; etc.?

http://hemiyoda.net/bilder/__phpAutoGallery__picLoaderTmp/hemiyoda.net/bilder/Electronics/megasquirt/640_magnet2.jpg

[williamb82]

id i did the hall sensor with magnets, id recomend doing them om the flywheel. and moutn the sensor in the metal plate that bolts to the block before the flywheel. seen it done on a 7m and man is it clean. also its a larger diameter so far more accurate. props for doin it on the crank pulley though, i know that wasnt easy.

[MightyAl]

Is anyone running MS using the stock CPS?? I am going to attempt this on my 3s-gte in a couple months and was curious if anyone else has gone in this direction. I have a scope so I am going to put in the hours and try my damndest to get it to work. My biggest reason is that I want to go to 2zz coils shortly after getting the MS up and running.

[SilverMk2]

id i did the hall sensor with magnets, id recomend doing them om the flywheel. and moutn the sensor in the metal plate that bolts to the block before the flywheel. seen it done on a 7m and man is it clean. also its a larger diameter so far more accurate. props for doin it on the crank pulley though, i know that wasnt easy.

That's a bad idea IMHO. Flywheels get hot and magnets are notorious for demagnatizing at relatively low temp. The correct way off the flywheel is to use a sensor that picks up the teeth of the flywheel. A lot of production diesel engines use this method.

I'm kind of curious in that pic above why it looks like the magnets don't appear to be at TDC?

[williamb82]

well ij on supramania did his that way. hasnt had any issues with it, though he has a twin plate clutch and also used larger magents then that.

[cheappower82]

Is anyone running MS using the stock CPS?? I am going to attempt this on my 3s-gte in a couple months and was curious if anyone else has gone in this direction. I have a scope so I am going to put in the hours and try my damndest to get it to work. My biggest reason is that I want to go to 2zz coils shortly after getting the MS up and running.

I plan to on the 2jz; I'm going to try the 7m-gte cps with the dual wheel option of Extra

[MightyAl]

I am kicking around a few different methods using the toyota CPS 12+1. I am going to run the dizzy on the 3s at first and am going to try the 4 teeth one wheel only method. Eventually I am going to go with 2zz COP and am going to try to add the cam reset signal using one of the VR sensors. From what I read COP has to have dual wheel. 2 teeth per crank revolution for a 4 banger with a 720 degree reset. So if i leave the 4 teeth on the main wheel and add one VR for the cam reset it should work. Let me know if I am totally off my rocker in my thinking.

[Hemiyoda]

Yep 3 magnets. 40-50 degress BTDC, 120degrees apart. Could also be put at TDC and MS configured for "next cylinder mode" (120degrees? :)).

3x3x1mm neodymium magnets. Neodymium magnets are apparently a bit sensitive to heat, max ~120degrees celsius. But I don't expect that kind of temperatures at the pulley and it has worked fine several years now.

Yes it is a bit fiddly to align the magnets accurately. I have also marked out new TDC's for cyls 2-5, 3-4 so I can verify how many degrees "timing run out" I have between the cylinders. (+-1 degree at the moment with my crude tooling.)

My latest implementation below. Magnets sunk into the pulley, adds a bit more confidence that they wont come loose if I get crap between the engine and the pulley. Glued with JB Weld style glue.
http://hemiyoda.net/bilder/__phpAutoGallery__picLoaderTmp/hemiyoda.net/bilder/Cars/MS65/5M-GE/640_IMG_3476.jpg

I use an Allegro A3240 hall-sensor. I can recommend using a small capacitor for powersupply filtering near the hall. Modify the MS that it has +5v wired to the current limiting resistor for the optocoupler. Feed GND to the optocoupler from the hall out. Observe that the hallsensor is polarized! A good idea would be to have a spare sensor with an LED to be able to confirm magnet polarization before applying the glue. ;)

[KurtW85]

bring back this thread a little bit.
ive desided to go with MSnS-E...so let the fun begin...
i plan on using a stock distributor along with my Accel super coil for spark...
440cc injectors for fuel now...ill get to bigger injectors soon enough...
ill be keepin it under 8psi until other mods have been taken into consideration(like fp:iocrunks2: ) newb q:anyway to test a fp for flow? for some reason my pump is screamin, fuel level doesnt seem to have an effect either...previous owner said he replaced the pump, but no specs...he also said he replaced the engine...and that was a 6m...so im wondering...

something im kinda stuck wondering on is wideband? can you datalog with lap top and mega tune or do i need another program?? do i need an lm/lc-1??? im just confused on it...

currently i have a friend here in town who has successfully built his MSII and is willing to help me learn and build my own...so bare with me, im still kinda a newb at this...i dont wanna rely on him for all the questions. lol

anyhelp is appreciated...

yes im on the ms forums(msefi & msextra) but id kinda like to post more here, for you guys have supras...not random cars and can answer questions more directly(no guessing games) tho not everyone here is ms knowledgeable...

[Darrow]

You can do it on your computer. You can do logs and from those logs there is a program that help get the fuel map better according to some algorithm, that is if you start close to what you need.

The logging program is called mega log viewer

This should get you going in the right direction.

http://www.msefi.com/viewforum.php?f=25

[williamb82]

also, if you need 440's with clips lmk. i got some. pigtail o nthe clips isnt that long though, but enough to soldier.

[cheappower82]

You can tune as well as datalog with MegaLog Viewer, also auto tune the base fuel map. I'm not good with it, but I'm learning.

[KurtW85]

thanks guys. i should be ordering the kit in the next week sometime... im ordering the MSI ver.3 board, Wideband 02, water/air temp sensors(i need the water temp correct? or is the stocker good?), a 2nd map sensor for altitude correction, and the 12' pigtail harness... this will get me started... i posted a question on what needs to be done with the stock distributor to make it work... Donnie said and showed me pics of his distributor and he just ground all the teeth off but 6 evenly spaced ones... but someone on the msefi forum said that i could just grind 6 evenly spaced teeth off?? im confused on that... i get the concept on how vr sensors work, but can you just setup ms to read it that way or what?

Have any of you guys delt with the usb adabtors?? ill be buying a lap top from a buddy soon and i was just wondering if you guys have delt with them or not? opinions?

O, and sorry william, i got my injector clips already, thanks tho!

THANKS guys!

[sideways82]

I use a USB serial adaptor just about every day at work. No problems pretty standard now.

[Darrow]

(i need the water temp correct? or is the stocker good?),
The stock toyota one will work. you need to do a temp correction in megatune and burn it the MS and you will be se.


a 2nd map sensor for altitude correction,
You can try this If you have not bought your primary sensor. I will be getting this when I get closer to installing my system.
http://www.diyautotune.com/catalog/mapdaddy-sensor-with-barometric-correction-p-117.html


Have any of you guys delt with the usb adabtors??
USB adaptor works for me. I bought it through the DIY autotune site.

For the dizzy I ground off the teeth and left 6 evenly spaced teeth. I have not tried it and I will ge going a different route now.

Darrow

[KurtW85]

thats map looks like a nice little piece :)

can anyone send me a link that explains in detail what i need to do to the distributor?

[Donn29]

This is the Biggest issue in my book. Basicly mod the dizzy pickups, and hook it up to the MS BOX and use the right settings. Very vauge but that is the basics. No one has really put up proven info yet.

[cheappower82]

I hope some of you v1 guys try the dual VR circuit; I think if you can get that to work, it'll open more opportunities (like COP)

i'm trying to get some ECU plugs for a fuel only PnP; guess I shouldn't have sold my only spare ECU's. if anyone has a bad 83-86 ECU, please hook me up

[walkerhiboost]

What parts would be needed?

[cheappower82]

What parts would be needed?

for the dual vr conditioner or the PnP fuel only MS?

if you're going turbo, you don't want fuel-only control. that's what an afc does.

as for the dual vr conditioner, it's covered in the extra help pages: http://www.msextra.com/manuals/MS_Extra_Ignition_Hardware_Manual.htm#2ndVR

v3 has one VR circuit already

[KurtW85]

so basically just use a rotory tool to cut the other 18 teeth out and put it all back together... as far as an ECU donnie, you pay shipping and you can have my spare.

[cheappower82]

Tell you what, I'll send you a vacuum advance distributor (82 vintage) which already has the six teeth on the reluctor wheel. the advance needs to be locked out and the pickup wired with about 10' of shielded/twisted wire.

fair trade?

[KurtW85]

fair enough. the ecu is outta my 85 parts car...lets take this to pms...

[walkerhiboost]

Check my order list:
PCB 3.0 Unassembed kit, Stimulator v2.2 unassemlbed kit, IAT sensor, and Relay Board Unassembled.

Is this everything I will need for the N/A 6M, cams, exhaust, intake, etc.?

[KurtW85]

what are the differences with the 2.2 and 3 boards? why is the price so dramatic?

[japlish]

i think it has something to do with them being alot more resistant to 'abuse'
from us noobs and i think it has better tuning maps? its all on the msefi forums....


walkerhiboost: why did you get a relay board? i was under the impression that if your car was already efi than you didn't need it?
good luck anyway:p

[walkerhiboost]

The relay board is for another project.....I will have my grandma's 1981 Datsun B210 wagon soon.....rotary pwerd......hahahhaha

[japlish]

oh i see.

i myself have just ordered a MS2 v3, megastim and a lc-1 wideband, cant wait to get it!

[walkerhiboost]

I guess I need to add the wideband to the list...I have an EGT gauge and probe and used that to tune my WRX.

[KurtW85]

http://i68.photobucket.com/albums/i39/MkIIDrifter/4-19-07020.jpg
http://i68.photobucket.com/albums/i39/MkIIDrifter/4-19-07022.jpg
Megasquirt: MSII v3.0 w/ mapdaddy baro correction set up for Stepper... $300 from my buddy... he assembled and tested it...he thought is was messed up, purcahsed another board and megastim and they both tested the same... so he didnt need two... long story short, i got a hell of a deal:woot: :woot:

Computer:
IBM t40 think pad. pentium 1500mhz processor, 512mb of ram, internal internet card, has a video card in it(not sure on specs) and a whole bunch of goody software...$200 total

O and:
http://i68.photobucket.com/albums/i39/MkIIDrifter/4-19-07012.jpg
for the rolla...not my car...not my motor...but i share the garage with it...and depending on my ms setup, the owner is thinking about ms for it...good'ole 20v :)

[japlish]

hey guys,
i'm in the process of setting up my MS-II V3 fuel and spark for a 6mge.
i've read through alot of the megamanual but its all a bit jibberish to me:ugh:
what i want to know is with the 6m:

what style ignition does it have? hall or VR?
injectors, are they batch fired or sequential?
do i have to get one of those toothed wheels?
do i have to lock the dissy?

[Enchanter]

If your 6mge is the same as my 5mge (which it should be)

The disy has a several VR sensors in it, you should be able to modify the wheel in the dissy to simulate a crank sensor (remember one dissy rev = two crank revs).

I believe the injectors are batch fire but it doesnt matter as the megasquirt will only do batch fire anyway.

You shouldnt need the toothed wheel on the crank as the VR sensor in the dissy will work fine.

My 5mge has electronic ignition control (ESA), not vacume etc so its already locked.

Please note i havnt yet set mine up but all the info should be correct. The only problem that may pop up could be too much noise interferance from the dissy VR sensor, if this is the case you will need a toothed wheel and an appropriate sensor for the crank.

[KurtW85]

same place with my msII build. haha...

[rwhite]

This question may have been covered, but why does the distributor need to be modified to only have 6 teeth?
I thought you could enter the number of teeth on the distributor into the megasquirt software.

[cheappower82]

you can now with the lm1815 vr circuit. back when i installed my megasquirt, this wasn't an option.

go with the 36-1 wheel; it's very nice for trigger

[KurtW85]

you can now with the lm1815 vr circuit. back when i installed my megasquirt, this wasn't an option.

go with the 36-1 wheel; it's very nice for trigger

what are you using to fire your coils?

[bozosoku]

This question may have been covered, but why does the distributor need to be modified to only have 6 teeth?
I thought you could enter the number of teeth on the distributor into the megasquirt software.

It depends on what is used for ignition signal to the MS. The stock dizzy has 2 VR sensors with a 24 teeth and a 2 teeth code wheel, if you use the wheel decoder option in MS the dizzy does not need any change. If you use GM HEI like I did, the dizzy needs to be modified to match number of teeth to the number of cylinders

[n.o. drifter]

I have a question, if i were to buy this http://www.diyautotune.com/catalog/megasquirti-system-pcb357-assembled-unit-p-164.html

would i just need to convert my harness to the MS unit and other sensors, then turn it on with a laptop connected to it and then worry about the start up settings.

But physically is that all i would have to worry about. Soldering?

sorry i don't understand any of the MS jargon.

[KurtW85]

it takes awhile to get use to all the jargon...youll get it, just keep on reading in the MS manual... searching on ms forums has helped me a lot aswell.

short answer, PnP(plug and play) has been achieved with our cars for megasquirt. is it easy to start with? no.(IMO)

if you are ok with soldering and dont mind wires so much, making your own harness and starting with the one off of diy will make problems a whole lot easier to diagnos. that was what i did, and i learned a hell of a lot of stuff in the process... anyone here will try their hardest to help a fellow Megasquirt-er out. :)

good luck.

ps: id start off with a MSII board. the 3.57 is still pretty new...

[n.o. drifter]

^thanks alot, i am just searching for understanding for a future build, but again thanks.

[cheappower82]

Post 4 updated for my latest upgrades. Screenshots of settings.

This is with the 36-1 wheel for trigger and still using the distributor/MSD for firing plugs

[KurtW85]

not gunna lie, that is gunna save me a lot of time! =D THANKS Donnie!

[Darrow]

Thanks Donnie.

Does anyone know how to change the VE table for a different injector size. I'm running 440s and Donnie's table is set up for 720s. I think my VEs should be higher than Donnie's so more fuel can come in, but how much more.

6MGE (NA), MSII-E 1.02 (<-I think) V3.0, Ford 6cyl coil pack wasted spark, Modded dizzy NE wheel for 24-2 (12-1), Innovate LC-1, 440cc 7MGTE injectors.

[bozosoku]

You try the table transform feature : Basic setting - Fuel VE table - Tools - Table Transform - scale whole table by 720/440 = 1.636

[cheappower82]

Req fuel is where you'll make the gross changes. after you do the calculator, you can fiddle with the req fuel value to get it idling/running somewhat kosher

[mikeymkll7mgte]

Is the car running and driving and if so, how much boost are you running?? I looked at your fuel and spark tables, and they seem kinda funny. especially the spark- upwards of 20 degrees of timing at 20lbs of boost?? You planning on running really high octane race fuel??

[cheappower82]

If you're referring to my maps, yes, it's been running quite nicely at 17-20 psi.

There's a guy on supramania/supraforums squirting a 7m that runs a much more aggressive map (z-car making 400+hp)

[KurtW85]

If you're referring to my maps, yes, it's been running quite nicely at 17-20 psi.

There's a guy on supramania/supraforums squirting a 7m that runs a much more aggressive map (z-car making 400+hp)

i ment to ask ya donnie, what kind of gas are those maps on? 91? 93? 110? haha

ALSO

has anyone setup a tacho output on WS yet? i dont wanna dick around with swapping out resistors unless i absolutly have to...

http://www.msextra.com/ms2extra/MS2-Extra_Hardware.htm#tachoout

[Darrow]

I have that circuit in my set up. The MSII-E is on the car but not started yet. It has been tested on the JimStim and worked. I am running it through a Tach Adapter like the one they have in the 1JZ FAQ. I will see if it works when I start my car. Which is soon I hope.

[cheappower82]

I was running 93 with maybe some residual 110 (if any) from a recent track day.

As for the timing issue, I looked back at my older map and saw the drastic differences. I'm guessing the bigger turbo was a bit more efficient than the hybrid I was running. After talking to my tuning guru, he says the bigger turbos usually allow more timing in areas, especially if you're not creating higher EGT's that an inefficient turbo would produce.

Now think about how a stock timing advance works. With added rpm's the timing will increase. You wouldn't run a fixed timing map at, let's say, 10 degrees across the board. Yeah, it may idle fine, but your power would go to shite as you get on down the road.

With the turbo, yes you'll have to pull some of that timing back with boost/rpm's. How much and where? I don't know.

I'm not good with the ignition theory, so I'm explaining what I know (or think I know)

Edit: for those who are wondering, the numbers in the lower right and upper left on the map mean nothing. You will never hit those targets. You're not going to see 20psi at 1000 rpms, nor 6000rpms with vacuum

[SupraGo]

Going back to post#14, comments about using the flywheel, has anyone seen or used this setup:=
http://www.jbperf.com/wheel_translator/index.html

Looks like it might be a way to use the flywheel without magnets, or modifying it at all.

[KurtW85]

I was running 93 with maybe some residual 110 (if any) from a recent track day.

As for the timing issue, I looked back at my older map and saw the drastic differences. I'm guessing the bigger turbo was a bit more efficient than the hybrid I was running. After talking to my tuning guru, he says the bigger turbos usually allow more timing in areas, especially if you're not creating higher EGT's that an inefficient turbo would produce.

Now think about how a stock timing advance works. With added rpm's the timing will increase. You wouldn't run a fixed timing map at, let's say, 10 degrees across the board. Yeah, it may idle fine, but your power would go to shite as you get on down the road.

With the turbo, yes you'll have to pull some of that timing back with boost/rpm's. How much and where? I don't know.

I'm not good with the ignition theory, so I'm explaining what I know (or think I know)

Edit: for those who are wondering, the numbers in the lower right and upper left on the map mean nothing. You will never hit those targets. You're not going to see 20psi at 1000 rpms, nor 6000rpms with vacuum under acceleration
haha. good points...

[Darrow]

Going back to post#14, comments about using the flywheel, has anyone seen or used this setup:=
http://www.jbperf.com/wheel_translator/index.html

Looks like it might be a way to use the flywheel without magnets, or modifying it at all.

People have used that to use the stock Toyota distributer or CAS (Some CASs).

[cheappower82]

The *error daugherboard I run has those lm1815 circuits for that purpose exactly. our dizzy could benefit from that dual circuit with the wheel decoder.

but it also includes loads of add ons (quoted from glens garage):

Inputs
•Dual VR sensors
•Second oxygen sensor
•Table switching
•Exhaust gas temperature (EGT) sensor

Outputs
•Sequential shift lights
•Launch control
•Nitrous control
•Boost control
•Water injection control
•Four general purpose outputs

NEW! Version 2 board adds these features:
•Knock sensor circuit
•Space for second MAP sensor for continuous barometric pressure correction
•Connectors for all inputs and outputs, making it easier to connect to the MegaSquirt board

[KurtW85]

bringing this thread back. man...

after a complete lack of motivation/frustration/ break from my car, im coming back to her... its time to finish and have fun.

I have a few questions, as i forgot alot of what i learned of over the past years....but first the story of what happened may help...

MSII-e V3...440cc inj... 82 distributor locked out and modified to 6 teeth(from donnie)...stock intake mani, no isc... lc1 wb... this all ran and ran well the first time around.

1st time around:
had slight issues with ms...i didnt do the jumpers right...got it running and tuned enough to drive and put miles on. yay. seized a few cam shafts do to a shitty oil filter reloc kit... gay... pulled motor to inspect.

2nd time around:
i tore it all down as to not take any chances... new everything at 109miles on the clock... even went thru and did arp rod bolts(as i learned stock ones suck dick) ok sweet. motor back together better than ever. yay. got it back in. on a new turbo setup(to make the pull worth it hks turbo mani and garrett 67mm driftmotion waste gate and all new ic pipes) get it all back in... lookin good. without touching anything on megasquirt, i go to start it, and she starts.... but runs sounding like running only 3 cylinders...its gross... datalogs showed a very erratic tach signal from the distributor... i didnt tear much into my harness to inspect...

just been disappointed for this whole time... and busy with school or work... so now that i have time, i built my new harness(close to being done) and have been thinking about new possible setups. so here comes a few questions...

Can msii-v3 support a 24-1?(stock) 84-86 distributor? if so, i was thinking id like to use one i have laying around to operate as the ign input... also for down the road, a possible cop setup?

I will not be running a stepper style iscv currently, but would like to utilize the ford style isc that will be on my new manifold(tb) setup(in the future)... so what necessary changes are needed there? it was setup for the stepper style, i just didn't utilize it...

also, one i get my new harness in and going, what other things may have been a problem... ms literally sat in my room the whole time collecting dust... im just soo lost on how something may have been fucked up...especially being that i did change a single thing...other than moving my harness around... i opted to try a relatively cheap, easy way to remedy this issue...build a new harness...

opinions, questions, answers, please feel free to post up!

any help or discussion based on this stuff would be awesome :)

also, i would like to apologize to anyone who may have tried to help me in the past, I was just soo frustrated and tired of issues, i just didn't want to deal with it. now im back and have the focus to get this going again.

THANKS!

[cheappower82]

ms2 is alot different on megatune, and i haven't followed it on msefi to see what if ms2-e has caught up with ms1-e. on a side note, my tuner guy has had nothing but problems with the 7m-gte cps (which is somewhat similar to the 24/2 tooth reluctor). i think it's a toyota thing.

all my vr bugginess went away when i went 36-1 crank trigger (another plug for william).

[SuperSubs]

The Tach signal has always been my downfall. After now having swapped three coil pickups in my 82' dizzy, and constantly checking the air gap between teeth and the magnet, it is becoming frustrating. The biggest problem I have is the cold. when it reaches under 50* outside, I cannot get any kind of a tach signal to the ms. When I use a multimeter and check induced current only a few inches down the harness from the actual pickup, I still have no signal. Then when I turn the heat on in the garage, and it warms up modestly, it will pop over instantly and purr like a kitten at idle. I would strongly suggest to not even waste your time with a new 24 tooth dizzy, and just spend some time to fabricate a very dependable 36-1 missing tooth crank wheel, or a nice aftermarket flying magnet setup (the toothed wheel over the flying magnets in my opinion). I have no idea why I have not gone to this option yet (lazyness and ignorance i guess), but I know their are still group buy ignition wheels floating around, as I have contacted william about it and he responded saying he still has some (or at least one).

Also, why the need for an IACV?? I have been hapily without one for years and never had a problem as long as you have a well managed and tuned acceleration enrichment table.

As for wiring, the biggest and most obvious points have been said before, but just to clear up some important ones:
1. Shield the hell out of your tach signal line, and run it away from all other possible interference points (i.e. the coil (or coils is some cases), high current lines, injector hot and grounding lines, ect...) Ground the cable shielding at the engine itself by soldering a small wire dirrectly the metal shield caseing, then running the wire to a good engine ground. I bought my shielding here:
http://www.action-electronics.com/braid.htm

I used it with much success, and ordered around 40 feet. Sadly i'd just send you my extra, but I already sent it to Donnie a while ago.

2. Ground all your sensors to the engine dirrectly. If using a tps, ground to engine. coolant temp, air temp, ect, DONT take the ground lines all the way to your relay board (if using like me, which I am begining to hate) or the megasquirt. a good clean engine ground will provide better grounding potential then running all the way back through your manage ment system to be grounded.

3. Ground your megasquirt and your wideband at the exact same point. A minor, but sometimes overlooked step, as many will report if you do not do so you could see varriences anywhere from .2 lambda or around 2 a/fr!!

That's all i've got for now, im getting ready to look at an 85 p type for 250$

-Mike

[KurtW85]

well, lucky enough for me i snagged a wheel from william a while ago. along with a ford vr sensor... so im set on doing that. im just very, very sketchy on mounting the wheel on my crank pulley. it just seems scary to think about it coming off... the diyautotune harness comes with a nice shielded vr wire already, so i don't think thats an issue.

as far as switching to the crank wheel and using the distributor to distribute spark, are there anythings i need to change internally with ms? donnie, could you post pics of you wheels mounting setup? im am just very nervous to do it from fear of it flying off or screwing something up... balance in the motor??? ect. hmm. maybe im just too paranoid... would mounting it with lock tight(center it) and then welding it(or jb welding it if the crank pulley is cast?) be good? whats your opinions on it? what about orientation of the wheel and sensor at tdc? hmm.

this time around im also running the wiring underneath the manifold and up out of the way as to hopefully keep signals as clean as possible. how close it soo close for the vr signal?(to any other high current devices or wiring?)

also, last time my grounding wasnt ideal, like you suggest mike, this time ill be grounding all like you said. that oughta help a bit.

[cheappower82]

http://www.pbase.com/celicaxx/image/84914228/large.jpg

http://www.pbase.com/celicaxx/image/81937657/large.jpg

balance was one of my major concerns at first, but i haven't noticed any problems. i just centered it by eye, checking the overhang of the pulley in reference to the teeth (it's easy to see than explain). you could also put a socket on the crank bolt and center from there.

wheel decoder tool (http://www.msextra.com/manuals/MS_Extra_Software_Manual_files/wheeldecoder.xls)

this works in ms1, i don't know about ms2

looks something like this when your done (again, ms1-e):

http://www.pbase.com/celicaxx/image/94991618.jpg

refer to the megamanual for you specific trigger settings, this is where ms1 and ms2 configures completely different

[KurtW85]

maybe William could answer this, or anyone running a 36-1. on the ford sensor, their are 2 wires, one yellow and the other red/stripe. which one is the ground?

[cheappower82]

i don't think it matters

[bozosoku]

My dizzy setup works pretty well. It looks completely stock, the only thing to buy is a HEI module, a sacrificed dizzy and ignitor (which is actually optional).

Under the hood, the round can near the oil cap is a VDO solenoid for idle.
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a47/chrisyukari/DSCN0413.jpg

Inside the dizzy with some of teeth grinded
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a47/chrisyukari/DSCN0411.jpg

The HEI module fit nicely inside the stock ignitor housing with some minor grinding around the edge
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a47/chrisyukari/DSCN0412.jpg

I started out with a 82 (vac advance) dizzy to save me from grinding the tooth, the MS read rpm fine but for some reason there was no tech signal to my digital dash. No more problme with a 84 dizzy.

[KurtW85]

well, since i already have ms2-e firmware installed, isnt their a process to unistalling it, and then reinstalling it? it seems i remember this when i installed ms2-e the first time, but cant seem to find any instruction this time around... could someone possibly help me out?

http://www.msextra.com/ms2extra/MS2-Extra_Conversion.htm#install_f


Follow the instructions on the screen, if you have the original MS B+G code (a new MS2) then you will need to remove the lid of the ECU and link the boot jumper when instructed. The downloader will ask you if your upgrading from the standard megasquirt2 code, answer "Y" if you have the B+G code or "N" if you have already loaded an MS2-Extra code onto the MS2.
straight from the above link... man. im going blind or something.

welp. time to head over to the car(in the garage) wish me luck. i just need to solder the vr clip on, install the harness, make the bracket to hold the sensor and thats it...hopefully....

[84suprade]

is Megasquirt a bigyback setup

[SilverMk2]

No and if you can't even type a proper sentence you probably shouldn't mess around with standalones..... :D

[KurtW85]

well i got a small list of things to do tomorrow. gettin to it early. 7am'ish. so. we will see if i fixed my problem(s)...

on another note, who here can walk me thru a driver install(for my usb-db9)? i "found" the ones on need online(lost my cd) but i gives me a folder and im not sure how to go about doing it...

Id really like to use the comp i recently got for this... not my old virus pos... maybe their is a way to transfer a driver from comp to comp?? ha. doubtful.

[KurtW85]

got her to fire last night on the 36-1 wheel. :)

accel coil and distrib for spark out. surprised me, ran on the first crank. :) fp was a few psi low. need to adjust that and change a few things under the hood. very happy that she started tho :) also need to put a toyota relay in for my fp, the cheapy i got shit out. but besides that just time to play

[Dakar2008]

what'd you guys do for knock sensor. will the stock sensor work?

[williamb82]

the stock knock sensor will work though as i recall the megasquirt cant adjust timing based on knock. i didnt bother hooking up knock sensors on my ms2

[Dakar2008]

how did you guys get around the starter? clutch neutral switch, how did you rewire it.

[williamb82]

the mk2 doesnt have a clutch neutral switch.

[Dakar2008]

oh, cuz i have a 86 cressida and it does, you dont have to push the clutch in to start the car?

[williamb82]

nope. but id imagine you still would even with the megasquirt if thats how your car is now. unless your starter wire goes through the engine harness. mk2 it doesnt.

[Dakar2008]

yup goes thru the ecu

http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c108/Dakar2008/badasssyeah.gif

[Dakar2008]

i have to push the clutch in, "factory 5sp" but it also has the n/c clutch switch, which doesn't have anywhere to run right now, and im guessing that is the reason it wont start, i ran the starter wire direct to the stater, its just a matter of where to run the n/c clutch switch wire.

[Donn29]

I just looked at my wiring diagram and it doesn't need the stock ecu to crank. Try unplugging it, wiring it correctly and turning it over. It won't catch of course, but it will turn over if you turn the key and push in the clutch.

[Dakar2008]

what did you do to configure the distributor, where do you read the input signal?

[Dakar2008]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J1cGnnPQ6pM initial start of my 5mgte

[83CelWA]

Very nice:thumbsup:

[Dakar2008]

here's how she sounds now, still had 5boost leaks in this video, bov is alot louder now
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eCRWE9_E1r8

[williamb82]

ive gotten lots of pm's requesting these. heres my current settings. ms 2 on v3 board. edis 6 ignition, 780cc/min injectors, 57 trim ct26, stock mk3 i/c with 2in hardpipes, and 3in turbo back dp and exhaust, no cats, with magnaflow straight through muffler. stock 7mgte with arp head studs and hks 1.2mm mhg.

http://i623.photobucket.com/albums/tt317/williamb82hotmail/megasquirt/accelerationwizard.jpg

http://i623.photobucket.com/albums/tt317/williamb82hotmail/megasquirt/afrtable.jpg

http://i623.photobucket.com/albums/tt317/williamb82hotmail/megasquirt/afrtablegraph.jpg

http://i623.photobucket.com/albums/tt317/williamb82hotmail/megasquirt/coldignitionadvance.jpg

http://i623.photobucket.com/albums/tt317/williamb82hotmail/megasquirt/dwellsettings.jpg

http://i623.photobucket.com/albums/tt317/williamb82hotmail/megasquirt/egocontrol.jpg

http://i623.photobucket.com/albums/tt317/williamb82hotmail/megasquirt/generalsettings.jpg

http://i623.photobucket.com/albums/tt317/williamb82hotmail/megasquirt/ignitionoptions.jpg

http://i623.photobucket.com/albums/tt317/williamb82hotmail/megasquirt/injectioncontrol.jpg

http://i623.photobucket.com/albums/tt317/williamb82hotmail/megasquirt/injectorcharacteristics.jpg

http://i623.photobucket.com/albums/tt317/williamb82hotmail/megasquirt/sensorcalibration.jpg

http://i623.photobucket.com/albums/tt317/williamb82hotmail/megasquirt/sparkadvancetable.jpg

http://i623.photobucket.com/albums/tt317/williamb82hotmail/megasquirt/sparkadvancetablegraph.jpg

[williamb82]

http://i623.photobucket.com/albums/tt317/williamb82hotmail/megasquirt/vetable.jpg

http://i623.photobucket.com/albums/tt317/williamb82hotmail/megasquirt/vetablegraph.jpg

http://i623.photobucket.com/albums/tt317/williamb82hotmail/megasquirt/warmupwizard.jpg

[johnb7]

Thanks William. Nice to have another reference. I'll be sure to post mine when I get there...

[mikeymkll7mgte]

William, are any of your tables dyno tuned, or just street tuned?

[williamb82]

street tuned. my afr's are where i want them when i datalog, i hear no pinging or detonation, and the graphs in the datalogs are smooth. that doesnt mean it will be the same exact way on another 7mgte, but should get you very close. on a dyno or on a street, you have to datalog and tune by what it shows. street is better as it is a real load on the motor. dyno's are for tuning for 1k hp and whatnot that isnt practical to tune on the street.

[BillyM]

William, you realize most real dynos are loading systems, right? For example the dynapacks that I have experience with at two different shops allow you to set an RPM (say, 3500) and it will hold it at exactly that from 10% throttle to full rip-roaring boost... This allows you to tune for exactly every single load cell, acceleration maps, etc...

--billyM

[williamb82]

they arnt accurate. i have seen first hand that the car will make more boost on the street then on the dyno, on the same exact settings and no changes, which means the loading wasnt correct. yes dyno tuning is needed in some cases, but street tuning is very essential. not everyone has a safe stretch of road to do wot tuning. i have several i know of. but the majority of my tuning was on the street during regular driving. lots of datalogs of just cruising around town to get the base of my ve table setup, then i blended the rest maually going by those settings. the only reason it is as rich as it is under cruise is when i had it at 16:1 afr, my engine would run hotter then i liked because i dont have the aluminum radiator installed yet. holding out on that till i can build an aluminum shroud for my 13in spal fans. so my afr table is for a stock radiator with no thermostat.

[mikeymkll7mgte]

I was just curious. All my tables were tuned on a Mustang dyno, and I dont think my timing is quite as high as yours. But then again, its probably been 6 months or more since I looked at it, so i could be wrong. We didnt hear any pinging on mine at any point, but used the dyno to show hp go up as the timing was bumped up to a certain point, then the power would start to fall off again. I will spend another day or two this winter retuning though due to a turbo and intake change. What fuel and boost pressure were you running??

[williamb82]

stock fpr so whatever the stock pressure was for fuel. boost, well, it will spike to ~22psi then falls to 18psi. the spring in my wastgate actuator is just worn out. im going to add a throttle return spring to it later to increase further. id like to run 25psi out of this 57 trim ct26. i have a garrett turbo ready to go on, but no point till my ffim is done etc.. and ive had no time to mess with t hat etc.. got too many other things to do. mainly finish fixing my ls400, but still need money for new mounts and whatnot. no point putting the engine back in till i have everything fixed so i wont have to worry about it for a long time.

as for my timing, i got my agressive map from clifton, he was using meth injection. i tried lowering all the figures a few deg and tried some settings in between, but the map i got from him initially worked the best for me. pulled the hardest. with my 245/50/16 drag radials, if i hadnt spun them to warm them up yet, in 3rd from a roll i can break them loose when the turbo spools. havent tried that with my 275/50/15 drag radials though. i hope they dont spin. id rather it just hook and go. im running a 3.727 diff and can break 2nd loose even when the tires are warmed up. this megasquirt made ALL the difference. its like a diff car entirely now.

[mikeymkll7mgte]

Yea the timing map seemed a little aggressive to me, but different motors like different things, so you never know. That and meth injection makes a difference too. You using a knock sensor at all?? I love having MS! Its so nice being able to change anything you want anytime you want. And Im in the same boat as you... Im hoping i dont spin my 275's, I would much rather just go. I still have the slicks for the track, but i want to hook up on the street. Ill find out here hopefully soon when I finish getting the car painted....

[williamb82]

well i have knock sensors, but they arnt hooked up. i have a 2nd ms2 processor that i loaded the latest code on. i want to wire up the knock sensors and an idle control valve and 3 vb921's for ignition and get rid of the edis 6 setup. then again, i may just wait till taxes come in. i want to buy a ms3 kit with the extender card and run full sequential on the ignition and injection. i already have a cop setup installed. id just have to wire in a 6 channel ignitor. ive got 4 of them. lol. also, i plan to run water/meth injection, but currently do not.

[BillyM]

FYI: The new bip's are far superior to the VB's. I went to the MS conference and watched them stress test a BIP where a VB melted down and it simply current limited its little heart out.

--billyM

[williamb82]

yeah, ill be getting the new ones, just didnt remember what they were so said vb921's as that way youll know i meant coil driver. also, id only be using them like a logic output so they wouldnt be stressed much at all. on the ms2 id be running 2 of the bosch 7 pin ignitors.

[Donn29]

they arnt accurate. i have seen first hand that the car will make more boost on the street then on the dyno, on the same exact settings and no changes, which means the loading wasnt correct. yes dyno tuning is needed in some cases, but street tuning is very essential. not everyone has a safe stretch of road to do wot tuning. i have several i know of.

Sounds more like a turbo/wastegate issue really, not to start a fight. I'd love to use a dyno for some bang on tuning, but that would get a bit expensive, lame.


Keep up the good work Billy and Will!

[mikeymkll7mgte]

Why cant or dont you run 6 bip's to run COP? Are you sticking to stock coils? I have never had an issue of not having the same boost on or off the dyno... Thats weird... My dyno time is free though..... :zzzzz:

[williamb82]

i wasnt referring to my car as the one on the dyno. i went to a dyno day. several people complained their cars wernt hitting "full boost" on the dyno. maybe it was just the dyno. either way, ive never needed to tune on the dyno. im not trying to build a hp queen with every last ounce of hp out of it. if i put it on the dyno to tune the timing i prolly could gain a few hp. but im betting it would be single digits and not worth it to me. im older now and could care less about bragging about a hp number. hell, i havent even been to the track in years, though i still plan to do that. bad thing is there arnt any close tracks to me. both 1/4 mile tracks are ~2hrs+ from me. i guess im just getting old. lol

as for the 6 bip's to run coil on plug, im using 6 camry coils already(off of 2 edis 6 modules in parrallel as i already had it set for edis). i like the idea of an external ignitor to control the dwell, so i wont risk frying the coils by setting it wrong, and also, less chance to fry the transistors in the ms2. when i go ms3 ill be using the camry 6 channel ignitor. i found out it doesnt work well when wired for waste spark. gives very weak spark. the bosch 7 pins seem to be very robust and lost of people use them as an upgrade as they say they usually get a much stronger spark. some vw guys have claimed to be able to run 25psi with plugs gapped to 40 thousandths, where they were stuck at 16psi and 25 thousandths before.

[mikeymkll7mgte]

I have never had or known of any cars or trucks to run any different on or off the dyno. Besides not getting enough airflow sometimes and over heated, they always ran the same. I may even have datalogs still around to show that my car ran the same. The biggest reason I used the dyno for tuning was because it was free. And i wanted to tune more of the top end of things that is kinda hard to do when most people wont ride in my car and hold a laptop at the same time... :) I gained somewhere around 50 hp and torque with 5 hours of tuning. I dont have the exact numbers right in front of me though.

As for the dwell, i guess it just depends on how much boost your planning on running. I like having control over the dwell, and i have 6 bip's that control my COP's. I researched my coils and measured resistance and all that to get the best dwell time figured out. Was a pain, but worked out good. Any idea what the dwell time is on the camry ignitor??

The end result is all that matters. It all comes down to what you want to do with the car. I didnt care what my car put out on the dyno, i just wanted it for the tuning. The track times spoke for themselves.

[tig321]

I have never had or known of any cars or trucks to run any different on or off the dyno.

I'm not trying to offend, but how many vehicles have you tuned on and off the dyno?
It's bugging the hell out of me, but I'm sure I've read somewhere an interview with a tuner where they said they follow up their dyno tune with a street tune to make sure everything is all good I want to say it was Bob Norwood, but I cannot find it anywhere.

In any case there are many kinds of dynomometers and even more brands. I'm guessing what ever dyno William ran on,(probably an inertial dyno like a dynojet) there was not enough load on the car for the engine to reach full boost, it's not the first time I've heard someone say that.
Not all dyno's are created equal, I don't get why people keep calling him out like he's wrong to believe his boost was lower on a dyno.
Anyway this is getting off topic.

[pat2330b]

oh shit i love this site!!

[williamb82]

the camry ignitor is a "smart" ignitor and controls the dwell itself. since im using the coils that go with this ignitor, when i upgrade to the ms3, ill be using the camry ignitor. i have a full extra set of coils and 4-5 igniters so i shouldnt have any issues. once ive upgraded to the ms3, if i have the money, i might put it on the dyno to tune the timing some more, but for fuel theres no need. as for datalogging, i just open the laptop and face the back of the screen to the back of the passenger seat and strap it in with the seatbelt. lol. works great. i of coarse star the log before i do, then when im done driving i stop it.

[williamb82]

I'm not trying to offend, but how many vehicles have you tuned on and off the dyno?
It's bugging the hell out of me, but I'm sure I've read somewhere an interview with a tuner where they said they follow up their dyno tune with a street tune to make sure everything is all good I want to say it was Bob Norwood, but I cannot find it anywhere.

In any case there are many kinds of dynomometers and even more brands. I'm guessing what ever dyno William ran on,(probably an inertial dyno like a dynojet) there was not enough load on the car for the engine to reach full boost, it's not the first time I've heard someone say that.
Not all dyno's are created equal, I don't get why people keep calling him out like he's wrong to believe his boost was lower on a dyno.
Anyway this is getting off topic.


glad you agree with me, but again, wasnt my car. i have never had my black 84 on a dyno. i just went to the dyno day to hang out and see what some of the local guys were putting down etc... and like i said, it may have just been that dyno, idk, but for me, the onyl benifit of a dyno would be fine tuning the timing. and no point in doing that till i have the setup exactly how i want it. dyno time isnt cheap at all.

[mikeymkll7mgte]

No offence taken. Im not calling him out at all, just saying what my experiences are. I had never heard that before, and now that you mention it, it does kinda make sense. The dyno is a mustang dyno. We were doing more steady state tuning than just runs. I have tuned my car, a turbo B2200 mazda, 2nd gen turbo RX-7, 22re turbo truck, na 22re celica, and an 01 Firebird. I helped with tuning on my bosses wife's supercharged SRT8 Charger.

They all ran the same boost on and off the dyno, with the exception of the celica and the firebird. My car, both mazda's and the celica were running MS2, the 22RET was mostly stock, the bird was stock, and the charger.... well... they have a few pennies into it. I do have access to a dynojet too... might be interesting to try both. Yea... off topic.

As for the COP subject, anyone know if the 1zz and 2zz COP's can be run in waste spark?? Someone I know is playing with a supra... :)

[Donn29]

... i just went to the dyno day to hang out and see what some of the local guys were putting down etc... and like i said, it may have just been that dyno, idk, but for me, the onyl benifit of a dyno would be fine tuning the timing. and no point in doing that till i have the setup exactly how i want it. dyno time isnt cheap at all.

Damn straight it's not cheap. I wish I could afford dyno tuning!

I just think from my experiences those kind of statements sounds like a bunch of racing excuses. Upset that their turbo setup(that they poured heart soul and money into) is unreliable likely due to china/faulty wastegates. I really can't see how a dyno can't apply real world 'load'. Do you have the throttle open, does the engine rev up faster than it normally would on the road?(if so, try the next gear, or use a taller final ratio)
Just meant as food for thought though, sorry about my off topic banter.

[discoelk]

Heres my stuff
Engine Type
5mgte
stock ct26
440cc injectors
Divorced down pipe
3in exhaust
2.5in IC pipes, ebay front mount
Ignition Style
stock distributor and ignitor
MS Hardware
DIYPNP w/ afm delete kit
MS2 2.1.0 code


http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y187/discoelk/forums/squirt/1.jpg

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y187/discoelk/forums/squirt/2.jpg

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y187/discoelk/forums/squirt/3.jpg

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y187/discoelk/forums/squirt/4.jpg

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y187/discoelk/forums/squirt/5.jpg

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y187/discoelk/forums/squirt/6.jpg

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y187/discoelk/forums/squirt/7.jpg

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y187/discoelk/forums/squirt/8.jpg

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y187/discoelk/forums/squirt/9.jpg

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y187/discoelk/forums/squirt/10.jpg

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y187/discoelk/forums/squirt/11.jpg

[84ptype]

very nice post david. Should help out anybody going a similar path. Ill post mine this spring when I get it going after my current round of 5mgte sex upgrades ;)

[cheappower82]

I need to ride in one you Atlanta guys' car that has the DIY treatment. I want to see how well it will idle after dropping in 1000cc injectors. I think we're going to try Hi Res code on my car soon to get the 880's to behave. They do great everywhere else, but at idle I have a weird idle search

[discoelk]

My car idles pretty smooth once its warmed up. I just now started playing the warm-up enrichment and cold advance. The whole process has been relatively trouble free, which is very out of character for any other megasquirted car I've been around.

[cheappower82]

Guess you have the magic touch; touch mine please?! :ghey:

[williamb82]

my 780's idle perfect. what brand injector are you using? and what is the minimum pulse width needed? on larger injectors the opening time is usually a lil longer. might want to adjust it in your settings. might smooth it out for you. that or drive down to my house and we can work on it till is sorted out. lol

[johnb7]

I need to ride in one you Atlanta guys' car that has the DIY treatment. I want to see how well it will idle after dropping in 1000cc injectors. I think we're going to try Hi Res code on my car soon to get the 880's to behave. They do great everywhere else, but at idle I have a weird idle search

Hey Donny,

Are you running MSI or MSII chip? I might have seen a 7MGTE on 550s idle like butter on the MS2 chip.

-John

[cheappower82]

I'm still on MS1. I tried an MS2, but I couldn't get it to work with my VR (found out later that it was a bad MS2). I'm probably going AEM anyway, but I'll keep my Megasquirt for an N/A project.

[johnb7]

Bring an MSII chip and some beer to Atlanta and I will make it work. I can see how MSI would struggle to control injectors that large seeing how it run slower than my TI-89 calculator from college. High resolution code would help, but I can't remember what features had to be given up for that. MSI does work well on my 440s.

-John

[Jose H. 3]

well... i have pretty much the same exact set up as discoelk so in an attempt to make my car run better i copied all of his tables and such to my set up and now the car runs even worse than before. Could barely get the car out of the driveway. I have no idea what i am doing wrong at this point. tried to import the previous tune I had running on the car and still runs really poorly. barely got around my block before I just gave up and went back home... smelled a new smell, popped the hood and the exhaust housing on the turbo had a slight glow... i'm really hoping I didn't cook this damn turbo considering I have about 500 miles on it since I had it rebuilt... So far I am not having fun.

[williamb82]

i have an extra ms2 chip i bought when it looked like mine was bad (turned out to be a tantalum cap under it on the 3.0 board). lmk if you need it. ill sell it for way less then i paid.


jose, pm me. maybe one weekend i can come over and take a look and see if we can get it running good.

[discoelk]

well... i have pretty much the same exact set up as discoelk so in an attempt to make my car run better i copied all of his tables and such to my set up and now the car runs even worse than before. Could barely get the car out of the driveway. I have no idea what i am doing wrong at this point. tried to import the previous tune I had running on the car and still runs really poorly. barely got around my block before I just gave up and went back home... smelled a new smell, popped the hood and the exhaust housing on the turbo had a slight glow... i'm really hoping I didn't cook this damn turbo considering I have about 500 miles on it since I had it rebuilt... So far I am not having fun.

I'd break out your timing light and mess with this table until what megatune says matches what your timing light says.

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y187/discoelk/forums/squirt/6.jpg

Basically adjust the tooth #1 angle BTDC until you get matching numbers.

I'd also add fuel and pull timing from the boosted regions of both my tables until you've got the car idling and driving smoothly.

[cheappower82]

Bring an MSII chip and some beer to Atlanta and I will make it work. I can see how MSI would struggle to control injectors that large seeing how it run slower than my TI-89 calculator from college. High resolution code would help, but I can't remember what features had to be given up for that. MSI does work well on my 440s.

-John

I'll bring the whole car and my Mello Mushroom beer card. We'll have to find a place to stash the trailer. Looks like we could have a mini-Mega meet

[BillyM]

Beer? Supras? Tech-geeking?

WANT!

--billyM

[discoelk]

Beer? Supras? Tech-geeking?

WANT!

--billyM

this.

[rwhite]

Does anyone have a good set of stock fuel and timing maps for a NA 5mge? I am looking at getting a MS3 and it would be great to have a good starting place for maps!

[johnb7]

Does anyone have a good set of stock fuel and timing maps for a NA 5mge? I am looking at getting a MS3 and it would be great to have a good starting place for maps!

DIY has a dyno tuned msq file for the MS2 in their PNP section on their web site. You could take the maps from that.

[williamb82]

you can use the ones i posted for the 7mgte as a starter from 100kpa and below if your n/a. should get you running and driving. i wouldnt use my exact afr tables though. you can make more power by setting it to 12.5:1 in the ranges of your acceleration.

[rwhite]

Thanks for the replies, i did find the diy page that has the maps and info. I also asked the diy guys if you could use the new ms3 daughter board with the pnp 52 kit. Not sure if it will work, but I would like the upgraded table size and the on board data logging.

[williamb82]

for an n/a application it really isnt needed.

[Jose H. 3]

I'd break out your timing light and mess with this table until what megatune says matches what your timing light says.

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y187/discoelk/forums/squirt/6.jpg

Basically adjust the tooth #1 angle BTDC until you get matching numbers.

I'd also add fuel and pull timing from the boosted regions of both my tables until you've got the car idling and driving smoothly.

ok.... i must be retarded. I have the car running pretty smoothly right this moment but the timing with my timing light does not match the tooth #1 angle BTDC at all. According to my timing light ignition is firing at about 18 deg BTDC and I have the tooth #1 angle BTDC set to 46.... Now I did move the distributor and adjust the tooth #1 angle BTDC numbers to match which I got it to match at right about what you have yours set to which was 32 BTDC. When I have them matching the car seems to idle rougher and with throttle I am loosing a lot of power and actually hear some pinging... pre-ignition... maybe detonation.... neither good things. What the hell am I doing wrong. I feel like an ass that I can't seem to understand what is going on.

On another note. William82 suggested running the autotune feature in VE analyze in tuner studio here
http://www.celicasupra.com/forums/showthread.php?59227-my-5mgte-build-list&p=690973#post690973[/QUOTE] which it seems to be doing ok but seems to be getting into the lean region a bit... mainly as I am hitting the throttle from idle... spikes as high as 20 for a split second as the car kinda bogs before power comes on (this makes it really fun to drive...). Otherwise, gets to around the low 17s at times while cruising... I tried changing my acceleration enrichment to match what william had posted earlier in the thread to have the car run even worse (almost undrivable) just off idle. All this and the car is still running pig rich on idle at about 9.8... I tried knocking down the value in the AFR table where the car idles and still runs really rich. Is there another table for idle enrichment that I am missing somewhere? Car just dumps raw fuel at idle... smells horrible, leaves black soot all over my driveway, and is burning a hole in my wallet... I really want to understand but there is sooooo much info that I really don't know what to read... or where to start...

[williamb82]

http://i623.photobucket.com/albums/tt317/williamb82hotmail/megasquirt/accelerationwizard.jpg

sounds like your acceleration enrichment are off.

as for your ignition issue. make sure the #1 wire is on the #1 post when the dizzy is at tdc. there is a 1 tooth wheel in there that denotes tdc. with the crank at 0, and that tooth lined up per the tsrm, male sure the post the rotor is pointing at is the #1 cylinder if you want those numbers to match.

also, if the timing is too high at idle itll run like crap. my idle is 10deg. idles dead smooth.

[Jose H. 3]

yeah i would definitely think my think my acceleration enrichment is off... seems like the major diff is the TPSdot threshold.... when I change mine to match yours though the car is almost undrivable. hesitates very badly which makes it really hard to get the car to speed.

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a33/mkii85supra/wizard.jpg

I'll double check the physical timing in a bit... make sure its on point.

[williamb82]

well once you change the acceleration settings, youll have to retune. itll change what the ve numbers end up being, go through the auto tune again. use the correction settings i posted a few pages back. iirc it was 5% at kpa below 85(if it is too high, it is able to adjust too much and it lets the afrs jump all over the place and itll never settle down). and yes, make sure your timing is on point. if its not, then the timing in your map, isnt the timing the engine is actually running at. not good!

[Jose H. 3]

alright.... total noob and I had the distributor off by one tooth (now I feel really retarded)... running much better now. actually cleaning up idle as well. Do you think it would be better to install the first map I had running and retune from that or continue to run off the map I currently have going right now?

[williamb82]

wouldnt hurt to laod the first map and see. only takes a few seconds to switch between them.

[discoelk]

alright.... total noob and I had the distributor off by one tooth (now I feel really retarded)... running much better now. actually cleaning up idle as well. Do you think it would be better to install the first map I had running and retune from that or continue to run off the map I currently have going right now?

all my settings with the distributor set right should get you pretty close.

[SuperSubs]

Due to popular demand, I am sharing all my settings for my MSII V3.

http://s119.photobucket.com/albums/o127/supersubs86/MegaTune/

Things to keep in mind:

1. The shown maps should only be a good basis for 5 PSI and under. I run my car to 15 PSI with AFR's safely at 10:1 to 9:1 in higher load, but indivdual tuning should be done in the upper loads.
2. IGNITION SETTINGS ARE FOR MSD 6AL. Be very carefull when loooking at my info if you want to use it, and make sure to make the needed changes for your type of ignition system.
3. Other usefull fuel info for my setup:
440 CC Injectors
Stock fuel pressure

I don't frequent the forums often anymore, but I can try to answer Q's if anyone sends them. Thanks, -Mike

[Jose H. 3]

so anyone have any idea why the trigger wheel setting would change from when I parked the car one after noon to the next morning when I restarted the car? It changed on its own. I had the timing set to where it needed to be. drove around with the auto tune. disconnected the laptop and drove a bit more. parked the car. next morning tried to crank up the car and the timing was way off. (checked physical timing and it was still good) hooked up the laptop and the trigger wheel setting had gone back to the value that was there before I had made the needed adjustments... just went for another drive after changing the settings again and just parked it. will have to see if it changes on its own again.

[williamb82]

did you burn the changes to the megasquirt after you were done making them?

[rwhite]

Hopefully some of you MS guru's will be able to help me determine what is causing the following to happen...

I am getting a lean condition and misfire at the end of 3rd and 4th gear. The data log doesn't show anything going wrong except for the AFR going lean. PW is normal, timing is as expected, the sensors are staying steady and I am not getting any sync errors or counts. This does not occur in 1st or 2nd gear at all and really doesn't happen often in 3rd gear.

I would be happy to send anyone the log file.

The car is basically stock except for an aftermarket ignition system. Stock injectors, stock distributor and VR sensors. I am running the DIY PNP megasquirt for the supra. Fuel pressure is also staying constant during the issue.

Any ideas?

[johnb7]

Have a look at and play with decel enleanment? Not sure if this applies to your setup, but it might have something to do with it.

[williamb82]

is this a turbo setup or n/a? whats the gap on your plugs? distributor or coil packs? assuming its a n/a 5m, id increase the ve in the rpm and kpa range your encountering the problem. that or increase the % of duty cycle added at 100% tps reading on the acceleration enrichment table. if it makes no change, id check the strength of your ignition system. coil could be weak or plug gaps too large. if its a turbo setup, id change to a colder plug with a slightly smaller gap, then increase the ve% in that range.

[mikeymkll7mgte]

What is your afr right before it misfires? Had a buddies Mazda 2.2 turbo on MS going too rich then it would cause what looked like a lean misfire. But do as William suggested first and go rich first before you go lean.

[williamb82]

yeah, going rich, worst case is fouling plugs. if you go lean, you could blow the hg, bust a ring land, burn an exhaust valve, or melt a piston.

[rwhite]

I will check the plugs and ignition system. The ve table looks pretty good and it doesn't lean out in 3rd. It is a n/a 5mge. The thing that is confusing is that when I plug the stock ecu back in, the issue goes away. AFR is around 12.5 before it goes lean.

I was thinking that maybe something strange is going at a signal/control level with the MS?

Thanks for the suggestions guys!

[williamb82]

its load dependant. higher load in 4th then in 3rd. needs more fuel to compensate. id increase the acceleration enrichment percentage and see what it does. also, are you using a wideband? or narrowband o2 sensor setup?

[rwhite]

I am using a wide band. Right now I only have MAP enrichment enabled and I have had to move the threshold value pretty high (about 450) to keep it from influencing the pw signal negatively. I can enable tps enrichment, but I am not sure what values to set.

[williamb82]

check the settings i posted for tps enrichment. i think its in this thread a couple pages back.

[rwhite]

I didn't get a chance to do much work on the car last night but I did update the tpsdot settings. Will the accel enrichment settings be in effect once the throttle position is constant? I would guess that once you are at WOT for more than a second, tpsdot would not help...but I am a MS newbie!

[williamb82]

if you are in the % range you have set for the tps enrichment, the enrichment is active.

i cant see pics from work, but based on the name, this seems to be my pic of the acceleration wizard. my stuff is on page 11.

http://i623.photobucket.com/albums/tt317/williamb82hotmail/megasquirt/accelerationwizard.jpg

[rwhite]

Your settings do have 100% in the table but the units say %/s which made me think it was a rate of change parameter. If that is the case then I am guessing that it would go to zero once the throttle position is stable. If that is true, then I don't think accel enrichment will help with the AFR going lean once you have been at WOT for a second or so, but it would help initially when you step down on the throttle.

Hopefully the issue will turn out to be an easy change in the software, but it doesn't seem that way so far...

[williamb82]

your rpm's arnt going to stay stable while accelerating. so it will add that percentage until the rpms stop increasing. otherwise id have gone lean and melted something a long time ago with my megasquirt.

[rwhite]

I did get a chance to do some more testing tonight.

I took some scope traces of the injector signal and the ignition signal with the MS ecu and the stock ecu. They are posted at the following link. The tune file is also posted there.

http://www.msextra.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=101&t=40177&p=281072#p281072

It looks like the injector signal just gives up with the MS ecu...not sure why yet. Maybe I can adjust the injector characteristics or maybe I need to change something in the hardware?

[rwhite]

Thanks to some help from guys at DIY, it looks like the injector drivers on the microsquirt are overheating due to the high current in the circuit which is a result of the low impedance stock injectors. It looks like I need to add a power resistor to the injector circuit to lower the current and keep the injector drivers from overheating. Apparently the injector drivers cannot be run in pwm mode on the microsquirt unit even though the software makes it appear that you could.

[rwhite]

Good news, the extra 1 ohm of resistance in the injector circuit is keeping the injector drivers from over heating/current limiting. The car will now run through 4th gear without a misfire or lean condition.

The testing was going great until the car unexplainably turned off. After some checking around (while parked on the highway on-ramp about 10 miles from home) it became clear that there was no fuel pressure. I thought maybe I ran out of gas...but I checked that before I left. Maybe it's a fuse...nope. Maybe it's an ecu problem...nope. Apparently the fuel pump just locked up.

Thankfully it quit on the on ramp and not in the middle of the highway and thanks to my wonderful wife for making a few trips out to visit me with spare parts. Finally I was able to splice a spare fuel pump into the fuel system and get the car back in the garage.

Thanks for all the help guys!

[williamb82]

why didnt you leave the injectors powered by the stock fuel injector resistor? or did you already have that hooked up and it still wasnt enough resistance?

[rwhite]

The stock resistor box was still in the circuit and it was just barely not enough overall resistance.

[SuperSubs]

I have been running the stock 5m injector resistor to 7MGTE 440's with no current limiting for years without any issues up the powerband. More of a problem for microsquirt possibly?

-Mike