The "Unofficial" Air Filter thread.

[CJSREDPRA]

Yes, I really do have too much time on my hands.... again.......

I thought a couple of weeks ago "We need a thread, with pictures, of some of the more "common" air filters that our Supra's use". Since I've got too much stuff in my Parts Closet, this would be a good excuse to take pictures of what I have & post them. Comes in handy for the newbs....

So here we go....

Stock paper Toyota air filters:

MKI: Diminsions: Length: 9", filter element: 7 1/3". Width: 6 3/4", filter element: 5 1/3". Depth: 2 1/8"
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v285/looperboy81/2006_0904Image0362.jpg

Part number:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v285/looperboy81/2006_0904Image0363.jpg

MKII: Diminsions: Diameter: 7 1/2". Height: 5 1/2"
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v285/looperboy81/2006_0904Image0364.jpg

Part number:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v285/looperboy81/2006_0904Image0365.jpg

MKII K&N Drop-In filter
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v285/looperboy81/2006_0904Image0366.jpg

Part number:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v285/looperboy81/2006_0904Image0367.jpg

Both MKII Drop-In filters
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v285/looperboy81/2006_0904Image0368.jpg

K&N Cone Filter that attaches directly to the AFM. You will need a few washers below the AFM in order for this filter to fit correctly. Uh.. yes, it needs to be cleaned & re-oiled.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v285/looperboy81/2006_0904Image0371.jpg

Part number:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v285/looperboy81/2006_0904Image0372.jpg

[CJSREDPRA]

Here we have a slight issue........

This is the stock MKI airbox.. And the filter element next to it.

The reason why I/"We" still don't have a K&N Drop-In filter yet for the MKI?? Because for the last 15 years (at least), K&N "CLAIMS" in their Parts Catalog that filter Part# E-2487 will fit in side this.... If you look at the 5th picture in the last posting, there is going to be a issue.... Uh huh.... sure.... Round donut filter will fit inside a rectangular airbox.... I don't think so. Given the dimensions that I've listed for the MKI filter, I'll have to look inside the K&N Parts catalog & see if they have a universal filter that will work with this application.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v285/looperboy81/2006_0904Image0369.jpg

With the filter.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v285/looperboy81/2006_0904Image0370.jpg

The infamous HKS Super Dirt Flow (aka the Super Mega Flow) intake filter kit:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v285/looperboy81/2006_0904Image0373.jpg

Part number for the intake assembly.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v285/looperboy81/2006_0904Image0376.jpg

Install Instructions???
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v285/looperboy81/2006_0904Image0377.jpg

Seperate/new 200mm intake element.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v285/looperboy81/2006_0904Image0374.jpg

Part number for the Green element.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v285/looperboy81/2006_0904Image0375.jpg

[CJSREDPRA]

For the newbies & some of the old timers who have never seen this before..

Many, MANY moons ago, HKS offered their mushroom intakes with a Reusable/WASHABLE filter element. Then they eventually switched to the oil impregnated filter element that you could not reuse. Once it gets filthy, toss it & replace it.

These pictures show the difference between the 2.

(Thanks to Archie for selling the rewashable filter many years ago).

Topside: Reusable intake assembly is on the left. Current one is on the right.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v285/looperboy81/2006_0904Image0378.jpg

Side profile (I could not get my stock OE intake hose off, it was pretty stuck to the filter housing):
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v285/looperboy81/2006_0904Image0379.jpg

Bottomside:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v285/looperboy81/2006_0904Image0380.jpg

Topside of intake assembly, with the filter element & cage removed.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v285/looperboy81/2006_0904Image0381.jpg

Topside of the filter element.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v285/looperboy81/2006_0904Image0382.jpg

Bottom side. Yes, the bottom side of the reusable one is black/charcoal
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v285/looperboy81/2006_0904Image0383.jpg

Around 7 years ago, HKS began to offer different colored filter elements. One of them, was a Dark Red. And it was only offered for about 6 months, then it was discontinued. This what the filthy red element looks like. A new clean one will look great if you have a 85/86 SDR.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v285/looperboy81/2006_0904Image0384.jpg

If anyone has any other pictures of their filters that they want to post, please feel free.

[PtypE]

:suicide: noob here, if im right, the idea is to have the most free flowing air filter... is there a place that has scientific data about the ability to clean the air, and how efficent it is for the various filters for the mk2 and if the original air box is better than the mushroom head filter or cone type?

I have heard opposing arguments, so wheres the proof?

[irott]

Im new to the "free flowing" air filters.

All my toyota trucks/4runners work better with stock paper. Less dust gets through when Im mobbin. :zzzzz:

[MkII-XX]

Good write-up Chris. This should stop most of the new guys from wasting posts about what air filter they should use.
(If it turns into a Sticky)

[BuddyJ]

HKS has re-designed the foam element multiple times over the years. The latest design iteration that I know of is the Super Power Flow Reloaded which features a revised filter cage design and a triple layer wet disposable filter.

Super Power Flow Reloaded (http://translate.google.com/translate?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.hks-power.co.jp%2Fproducts%2Fintake%2Fspf_r%2Fspf_r.ht ml&langpair=ja%7Cen&hl=en&ie=UTF8)

The new cage design clamps and seals around the foam element better and, from the looks of things, has a better designed inner horn to improve flow. It uses a 3-layer wet disposable foam element instead of the old 2-layer. Should help keep dirt out while still having "mega flow."

I'd think the foam element from the SPFR would fit the SMF. I've yet to try it because my "rare" red foam element in my dirt flow is still good and I haven't seen any US vendor list the SPFR filter yet.

[CELICA XX]

Well done Chris !!

[RedP85]

Thanks CJ ! Now if I can only becide on which... !

[SupraFiend]

Accel has a line callled Kool Blue and they also have a drop in filter for our car. Very similar in contstruction to the K&N. They actually advertise that their filters filter as good or better then stock unlike K&Ns which are known to be a little on the dirty side. However comparing my Kool blue to various K&Ns I have around they seem to have about the same size holes in them and they even cross reference the K&N cleaning kit. I suspect they might actually be made by the same company, just with a different color element for Accel.

http://www.kool-blue.com/

AEM makes a nice line of filters that are not oil based ones but are reuseable. This is really appealing for those who want to run hot wire style air flow meters as the oil from oiled filters is known to mess with them. Also I've seen filter comparisons and the AEM filter always seems to come out on top for actual filtration and is pretty much even with other filters for actual hp gains. Pretty sure they don't have a drop in application for our cars though, you have to go to a cone filter or get inventive.

[Supra5MGTE]

Good write up, but I'll never use KN again. I'm 100% paper filter guy now. After seeing what intakes looks like with a KN+20K miles= dirty mess inside engine. FYI, a lot of "performance" magazines and companies are now confronting the issues like MAF Oil fouling and the amount of stuff that gets passed KN's. Few years ago, you'd never hear it.. now it's getting out there. AEM's dry flow to mention one, and now others are out.

[2nd Girlfriend]

I'm sorry for reviving such an old thread. But i was curious about these air filters since i've noticed some people would base their quality on certain environments (unpaved roads, dusty atmosphere, etc). If for example, how would KN's compare to Paper when driving on roads. Would one be better than the other under certain circumstances?

[lechner]

May depend how you define 'better'?

For the most part, it's a trade-off between better filtration or better airflow. Perhaps your saying that on a paved road you are willing to risk less filtration? Risk would be the key word then. Next question would be one of maintenance. Do you just want it to be better when you first put it in, or after you haven't touched it for a month of driving? Could/would you take the time to properly oil the K & N? Real world results depend on an awful lot of variables, so the answer to your question is a resounding YES.

[2nd Girlfriend]

I appreciate the reply, thank you.

I honestly want whats better for my engine life-wise so i plan to take the path of better filtration. I understand maintenance aspect of keeping my filter in check. My 85 is what i drive daily. My other question is, would K&N provide just as much filtration as regular paper filter on paved roads? I don't live in an area with severe conditions nor do i plan to go off road anytime at all.

[StanS]

Using a higher flow air filter requires more frequent oil changes for engine longevity.

[SupraFiend]

uhm, if changing your engine oil had any effect on dirt thats gotten past your oil filter, then the damage has already been done being that the dirt is in your oil (and you need new rings an overbore). I would recomend cleaning and reoiling the filter more often instead of more frequent engine oil changes (though those are good anyways of course).

[StanS]

Changing oil more often reduces the average dirt density vs. operating time in the oil so the wear is less. It's the rate of wear and new rings aren't required in a few thousand miles. Paper filters pass dirt and they've been used forever without wearing engines out rapidly.

If you read the KN tech data carefully you'll see that the dirtier the filter gets the more the filtering improves at the expense of airflo. This has been discussed numerous times in earlier threads.

[jerseyjake]

Using a higher flow air filter requires more frequent oil changes for engine longevity.

what?


if you're saying that high-flow air cleaners flow better because they have larger holes and hence let more dirt in, then that kinda defeats the purpose. more airflow at the cost of more debris in the engine? no way



Changing oil more often reduces the average dirt density vs. operating time in the oil so the wear is less. It's the rate of wear and new rings aren't required in a few thousand miles. Paper filters pass dirt and they've been used forever without wearing engines out rapidly.

i agree with paper filters being just fine. and about the oil changing. they have been used forever, and they do their job well enough.

no filter stops 100% of dirt, and yes paper filters 'pass dirt' but it's not an unacceptable amount (i'm not saying that's what you're saying, just clarifying). every filter passes some amount of dirt.

IMO, i always see these threads on every car forum. and it all comes down to a fairly minimal amount of HP gains between air filters. air intakes are probably a better investment (although they usually use aftermarket filters anyway). in the real world, it's not that big of a deal. a few horsies added that you probably wont notice. if you're a track racer/pro racer or whatever, then heck yeah, definitely squeeze every HP out of your car. but for street, have fun, dont go nuts over which air cleaner has 1hp more than the other :)

my .02


edit: wow @ your location haha. small world.

[935motorsports]

This thread is really old, and there is some new information that should be added.

Are we going to go ahead and update this thread with new info, or leave it as an ancient thread?

[kmfdmk]

I say it should be updated. And Stickied.

[SupraFiend]

Sure all filters let some amount of particulates through, but the size of the stuff that gets past a good stock filter is too small to do any damage. Stan my point was if your "performance" air filter is letting dirt get so far into the motor that its into the oil stream then you have bigger problems on your hands and need to loose that filter ASAP. Changing your engine oil often instead is not a viable alternative.

[lechner]

Nice disection of a piece of 'common wisdom' I've heard before (high flow filter requires more frequent oil changes). The only way dirt that got past the filter can get into the oil is against the cylinder wall past the rings, so this should only be the case on an engine that is well worn from using a performance 'filter' that didn't deserve that name.

As far as the thread being outdated, now that it has been brought to the front it will come up first in searches. IMO, if there is better information in a more recent thread, we should link to it with a pointer post here or add the relevant info to this thread.

[Dave A.]

The only way dirt that got past the filter can get into the oil is against the cylinder wall past the rings, so this should only be the case on an engine that is well worn from using a performance 'filter' that didn't deserve that name.


Agreed! An air filter that lets in enough debris to allow the cylinder walls to become scored, etc. shouldn't even be on the market.

[CJSREDPRA]

Okay everyone!!!!

If anybody has info on updated products WITH PICTURES that they would like to put up... Have at it!!! (Aside from what I already put up in Post #1).

[StanS]

You're all making lot's of assumptions and putting words in my mouth.

1) You don't get scoring, you get wear from dirt particles of larger size. Too small particles don't cause wear because they're coated with a sufficiently thick coat of oil. Particles ride in oil between rings and cylinder walls and bearing surfaces too.

2) How about the ring gap for dirt path into oil for one?

3) New/clean performance filters definitely let more dirt in. (Dirty one's filter better.) Compare blackness of your oil at a certain mileage using a performance filter (I've only done this with KN and I use M1) and with paper. I've found KN is darker.

How do you get more airflo for the same surface area filter if you don't enlarge the holes?

Earlier threads support this. Use search for more details and read KN and Amsoil tech articles and wear in lubrication articles.

[dannymk2]

You're all making lot's of assumptions and putting words in my mouth.

1) You don't get scoring, you get wear from dirt particles of larger size. Too small particles don't cause wear because they're coated with a sufficiently thick coat of oil. Particles ride in oil between rings and cylinder walls and bearing surfaces too.

2) How about the ring gap for dirt path into oil for one?

3) New/clean performance filters definitely let more dirt in. (Dirty one's filter better.) Compare blackness of your oil at a certain mileage using a performance filter (I've only done this with KN and I use M1) and with paper. I've found KN is darker.

How do you get more airflo for the same surface area filter if you don't enlarge the holes?

Earlier threads support this. Use search for more details and read KN and Amsoil tech articles and wear in lubrication articles.

the thing with K&N's is that yes, the holes in the filter are bigger, but thats why the filter needs to be properly cleaned and oiled. the oil is designed to catch the small particles that the filter does not, while still letting more air in compared to a stock paper filter. K&N filters get dirty really fast compared to other dry-flo filters that dont use oil. that means they are working.

[935motorsports]

Here are some things that are of recent history:

MK2 HKS "reloaded" Kit. Includes the new 3 layer element. Part # 70019-XT007 ~$115

http://media-images.rpmware.com/group-fbc6d80b-d321-4261-9dc9-119e65c34226-350.jpg

HKS Dry 3 layer element. Has a middle "fine" layer to trap dust. No longer the 'dirt' flow with this element. Part # 70001-AK022 ~$20

http://www.frsport.com/images/detailed_images/HKS_7001-AK022_3.jpg

HKS Wet 2 layer element. Less filtering, but more flow. Perfect for the track. Also known as the Super Filter. This is what used to come in the intake kit. Part # 1504-SA002 ~$20

MK2 Specific APEXI Filter. Paper element, velocity stack, "best filtering". Now has an adapter to fit with mk2. Proper part # 500-A021 which includes the 80mm adapter. $100

http://www.rhdjapan.com/images/product/27770/Image/Normal/Image.jpg

AEM

"Dry" Filter. No oil to clean. Claims 99% filtration, did not exist during the old infamous filter test.


http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y208/hawkeye10201/AEMDryFlowoverview.jpg


There are a few universal applications that will fit, but we would select the 3" inlet, 5" element filter.
Part # 21-203DK ~$45

[StanS]

1) Assuming that your KN filter is properly oiled, KN says that the dirtier the filter due to filtration the better the filtration.

2)I didn't say that the KN filter got dirtier faster, I said that the engine oil got dirtier faster when using a KN filter vs. paper.

Plese try to read more carefully so you don't cloud the issue for others.

[Dave A.]

Click on the video segments in the first link for some good info..

http://www.amsoil.com/video/company/EaFilters/index.aspx

http://www.amsoil.com/filtration/index.aspx



Efficiency Measurements: http://www.amsoil.com/storefront/eaa.aspx
http://www.amsoil.com/lit/databulletins/g2175.pdf


Universal Ea air filters: http://www.amsoil.com/storefront/eaau.aspx

Ea pre-filters: http://www.amsoil.com/news/2007_nov_eapf.pdf


The new MANN-FILTER line: http://www.amsoil.com/storefront/mann.aspx

[alfun]

K&N Drop-In filter E-2487

Does this come pre-oiled and ready to use out of the box?

Anyone run into any problems using this filter? I read about some possible MAF/AFM problems with this filter but nothing confirmed.

[KJK_Texas]

K&N Drop-In filter E-2487

Does this come pre-oiled and ready to use out of the box?

Anyone run into any problems using this filter? I read about some possible MAF/AFM problems with this filter but nothing confirmed.

Pre-oiled and ready to go. I've never had any issues.

[StanS]

If you clean filter and severely over oil it, afm problems can occur. I've used a few filters without any problems.