Fun with Alternators, Wiring and Amps

[jdk_ii]

I finally got around to checking amperage usage in key locations with my trusty amp probe.

Mind you, it's a 7MGTE w/80 alternator.

Measured at the alternator postive wiring that goes to the engine fuse box.

Original wiring, turning each of the following on:
25a: Idle
33a: AC(7a draw from Spal fan)
43a: Rear Defroster
45a: Parking lights
60a: headlights on (Hella H4's).
Toss in wipers, turn signal, car amplifier, etc, you can see where this is going.

Supplemental 4gauge alternator to battery feed:
08a: Idle
11a: AC(7a draw from Spal fan)
16a: Rear Defroster
23a: Parking lights
37a: headlights on (Hella H4's).

So, clearly 20+ amps is off loaded from the engine fuse box, fed directly through the 4 gauge wire, recharging the battery.

Once I make 4g wire shorter (for better, tidy fitment), I suspect maybe another5a will be offset.

What does this tell us?

For a stock MK2, it's kind of ok. Even with some brighter head lights.
I would argue those silly fusible links, age of wire, etc makes
it borderline.

Then it goes beyond borderline, with any additional electronic equipment.
Electric fans, car audio, using the cigarette lighter to power a laptop, etc.

The engine fuse box is just wrong to feed power to recharge the battery.

I could easily see a car with more electronics will push this close to 100a.

Even with my original 8g alternator feed wire, (max ~73a), all the other
electronic additons to my MK2 pushed it well over that. And subsequently
melted the alternator feed wire to my engine fuse box. :sadsmilie

Larger is better. ;)

[Tire Shredder]

wow! that's a huge drop!

[Dangerous Ken]

I finally got around to checking amperage usage in key locations with my trusty amp probe.
Original wiring, turning each of the following on:
25a: Idle
33a: AC(7a draw from Spal fan)
43a: Rear Defroster
45a: Parking lights
60a: headlights on (Hella H4's).
Toss in wipers, turn signal, car amplifier, etc, you can see where this is going.

10A for the rear defroster?
I'd hate to have to hit the brakes at night with the headlights, defroster and the stereo going...
That one wire run to the defroster (long) needs to be 8 guage.

Ken

[Phil G.]

Jim; for those of us with the Spal fan set up in our A/C kits: do you recommend upgrading to a 7M alternator over the 5M? IIRC the 5M is what - 60 amps and the 7M is 80 amps???

[Dangerous Ken]

Jim; for those of us with the Spal fan set up in our A/C kits: do you recommend upgrading to a 7M alternator over the 5M? IIRC the 5M is what - 70 amps and the 7M is 80 amps???
:rolleyes: Phil, the numbers Jim posted are the result of just a Wire Upgrade To the alternator.
Unless you are planning that twin 15" subwoofer box (to get laid), you won't need a better alternator.

Ken

[Phil G.]

:rolleyes: Phil, the numbers Jim posted are the result of just a Wire Upgrade To the alternator.
Unless you are planning that twin 15" subwoofer box (to get laid), you won't need a better alternator.

Ken

Haha....I'll try anything if that works. I'm not sure how much draw the Infiniti Bass Tube in my car has; I don't want to overy tax everything once I install the AC kit.

Hopefully I'll have enough juice leftover to run fulll length neon lights underneath also....

[turbogoo1]

Now what about running mutiple amps? I have designed a 2 amp system. Running 8 speakers(highs,mid,midbass) then a sub? Should the 80 amp be fine?

Now what color neon phil....Greg might not like it...

[jdk_ii]

The Spal fan is quite efficient. It draws 7amps.
Spike spin up of 19a, which is quite reasonable.

Also, the AC kits fan power is pulled from the battery,
not through the fuse box.

Honestly, the 60a factory alternator is ok for a stock MK2, as long as
it's not laden with power robbing accessories.

The real issue, is the MK2 alternator feeds the battery THROUGH the engine
fuse box.

My guess is that it can handle 60a.

Say you are pulling 80a continuous when running. Your battery is not getting sufficient
amperage for a recharge. It's wearing out slowly.

Plug a 80a alternator in. 80a through the engine fuse box is going
to get it hot, and possible melt it, or the fusible links.

Offload it through a seperate bigger gauge wire, the engine fuse box
won't be taking a beating.

[jdk_ii]

Now what about running mutiple amps? I have designed a 2 amp system. Running 8 speakers(highs,mid,midbass) then a sub? Should the 80 amp be fine?

Now what color neon phil....Greg might not like it...

If you go beyond a 60a alternator, then provide an addition alternator
to battery feed wire. In this case, 6g minimum.

Remember, you can pull as much amperage as you like on seperate
wiring feeds from the battery. 100a on a 60a alternator.

The alternator max rating is all the battery will see.

The battery will charge will run with a deficit.

Eventually, you will get the morning "click, no start"

Ugh, Phil and his love for neon and firechickens....

[85 rat rod]

lexus sc alt, one extra 8 guage ground strap from it to chassis, no problems...
h4 upgrade with sylvania xtra vision headlamps, old school sound system (2 amps+crossover no cap), 2 guage pillar pod, red neons, autometer a/f ratio...

with everything on, it behaves like a stock mkII alt with nothing on...

oh yeah and working at kragen ive realized that i can jump start almost anything and everything

[KesekiSupra]

offload the alternator's charge to the battery? im guessing its not as simple as bypass'ing the the fuseblock altogether and just running a heavy gauge wire straight from the alternator to the battery jim?

[jdk_ii]

offload the alternator's charge to the battery? im guessing its not as simple as bypass'ing the the fuseblock altogether and just running a heavy gauge wire straight from the alternator to the battery jim?

You can't fully bypass the engine fuse block.

It's needs regulated voltage to operate the various accessories.

The additional big wire reduces the current through the engine fuse box and
provides supplemental charging to the battery.

[KesekiSupra]

oops, just re-read my post. what i meant was, add an extra heavy guage wire bypassing the fuse block and going straight to the battery.

[jdk_ii]

oops, just re-read my post. what i meant was, add an extra heavy guage wire bypassing the fuse block and going straight to the battery.

Yes. You will want a slow blow fuse on this new line, as close to the battery
as possible.

A 5M prototype line will be in Vegas.

[turbogoo1]

Can you bypass the fuse box? And run a another wire? Or is this in conjunction with the stock one?

[KesekiSupra]

yea, in conjunction with the stock one you add another wire coming off the alternator to the battery with a fuse as close to the battery as jim said. so end result is stock wire from alt to fuse block, and new wire from alternator straight to battery

[pdupler]

Reviving this and Jim's other thread on the subject, I need to do this. I have checked a bunch of local places, but couldn't find an inline maxi fuse holder anywhere. Suggestions? And also, what amperage rating should the fuse be? Should it match the rating of the alternator (80 amps) or 30 I think is the highest amperage of any of the stock fuses?

[jdk_ii]

Reviving this and Jim's other thread on the subject, I need to do this. I have checked a bunch of local places, but couldn't find an inline maxi fuse holder anywhere. Suggestions? And also, what amperage rating should the fuse be? Should it match the rating of the alternator (80 amps) or 30 I think is the highest amperage of any of the stock fuses?

They can be a challenge find locally at an auto parts store.

I ordered the MK2 AC kit's version on line.

Optionally, one can consider buying a Stinger (or similar) amplifier kit.
Some have Maxi Fuse holders, plus all the wiring you will every need.
(Wallie Mart has them).

There is a buttery smooth Maxi-Fuse holder from Delphia (6 or 8 fuses),
which would remove several of our fusible links :D, but it's been pulling alligator teeth to even obtain them. :-\

As for the supplementary fuse on the alternator line, I running a 60 amp
with no problems.

Most of the Maxi-fuse holders run max 60 amps. Car amp kits can run > 60 amps. A bit specialized < 60 amps.

Assuming proper planet alignment, I figure JoeB, the guy who works on wiring trucks/buses and myself, we'll probably have some possible solution in Spring 2007.

[rwago]

There are fuse blocks floating around. I did some searching and came up with some different examples:
http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_5815.html#
http://www.maplin.co.uk/Module.aspx?ModuleNo=30444&doy=1m11&C=SEO&U=strat15
http://www.bluesea.com/product.asp?Product_Id=26377&d_Id=7463&l1=7463&l2=

I would look at a stereo shop for the best selection of fuses and fuse holders. Local shops should have a wide variety.
http://www.crutchfield.com/S-PeEnio9TvkZ/cgi-bin/ProdGroup.asp?c=11&g=717&o=p&l=&avf=N

Do they make these Maxi fuses in Slow Blow form? I would think most car electronic fuses would be fast acting to protect equipment like amps and such. 80amps would seem a bit high. If it is used only in the line going to the battery I might could see it.. What is the fuse protecting?

Jim how did the prototype work?

[jdk_ii]

There are fuse blocks floating around. I did some searching and came up with some different examples:
http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_5815.html#
http://www.maplin.co.uk/Module.aspx?ModuleNo=30444&doy=1m11&C=SEO&U=strat15
http://www.bluesea.com/product.asp?Product_Id=26377&d_Id=7463&l1=7463&l2=

I would look at a stereo shop for the best selection of fuses and fuse holders. Local shops should have a wide variety.
http://www.crutchfield.com/S-PeEnio9TvkZ/cgi-bin/ProdGroup.asp?c=11&g=717&o=p&l=&avf=N

Do they make these Maxi fuses in Slow Blow form? I would think most car electronic fuses would be fast acting to protect equipment like amps and such. 80amps would seem a bit high. If it is used only in the line going to the battery I might could see it.. What is the fuse protecting?

Jim how did the prototype work?

Yes, I saw those in my exhaustive search.

I like these for fusible link replacements: http://www.dillblox.com/sldmaxifuse.htm

Working with JoeB to source them.

Maxi-fuse is slow blow, so it's what we want. They allow prelimary surges
as the fusible links do.

Yep, the prototype worked like butter. Even on the stock MK2 (hardtop).
Still had a minor drop in headlight dimming, but not as much as with the stock
wiring.

[rwago]

Yes, I saw those in my exhaustive search.

I like these for fusible link replacements: http://www.dillblox.com/sldmaxifuse.htm


Jim, I figured you were on top of it.
I was throwing some ideas out to possibly help Phil, I just type way to slow.

Glad to hear the prototype worked great. I knew you would have it all figured out..

[Dangerous Ken]

Reviving this and Jim's other thread on the subject, I need to do this. I have checked a bunch of local places, but couldn't find an inline maxi fuse holder anywhere. Suggestions? And also, what amperage rating should the fuse be? Should it match the rating of the alternator (80 amps) or 30 I think is the highest amperage of any of the stock fuses?

Offered one up via email Phil.

Ken

[Tire Shredder]

jim,

thinking about this myself using some high quality amplifier power wires...what do you think of using a performance stereo brand large gauge wire such as 0/1?

[turbo MKI]

As for the supplementary fuse on the alternator line, I running a 60 amp
with no problems.
Hey Jim, I thought you said to run a 100amp fuse? My amp rewire kit came w/ a 100amp ANL fuse - I can get either 60 or 80amp fuses if you think the 100amp is too much (for the 7M)... This is the kit I got http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_3934.html - very nice stuff.

[pdupler]

Personally, I liked the ideal of an inline maxi fuse holder just because its simple and will look relatively stock. I saw a picture of this mod somewhere that was simple and elegant, but can't find it now. Most of those stereo amp wiring kits have stuff that looks too bling.

[turbo MKI]

Personally, I liked the ideal of an inline maxi fuse holder just because its simple and will look relatively stock. I saw a picture of this mod somewhere that was simple and elegant, but can't find it now. Most of those stereo amp wiring kits have stuff that looks too bling.I agree completely Phil. After looking at all the different companies, the kicker stuff had the least 'bling' factor nor did it have that cheap clear plastic as most others did. All the ANL fuses are pretty big but this one is atleast a simple and clean set up. This will do until I see what Jim and Joe come up w/ next spring...

[Tire Shredder]

Personally, I liked the ideal of an inline maxi fuse holder just because its simple and will look relatively stock. I saw a picture of this mod somewhere that was simple and elegant, but can't find it now. Most of those stereo amp wiring kits have stuff that looks too bling.

agreed, clear cases and gold, non-functional elements are stupid.

[jdk_ii]

Hey Jim, I thought you said to run a 100amp fuse? My amp rewire kit came w/ a 100amp ANL fuse - I can get either 60 or 80amp fuses if you think the 100amp is too much (for the 7M)... This is the kit I got http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_3934.html - very nice stuff.

First one, yes. 100A From a MK3. I had a spare 60A that I swapped in.
Don't even think I broke ~30A's on the auxilliary line.

Did the same to the black hardtop, but with Maxi-Fuse.

The real issue comes down to this.

Your accessories pulling X current off the battery terminal, the altenator
has to supply Y amps back to the battery.

The auxilliary alternator cable is perfect for this supplying this amperage
without interfering with the stock wiring.

60A Maxi-Fuses are easy to get. 80A and higher are a bit tougher.

If one has a spike of 100A or more through this auxilliary line, something doesn't sound correct, unless one has a big HDTV in the back. :D

[rwago]

Jim, Why would one need the fuse anyway?
Alternators should be regulated by the circuitry on the back of it. The battery should be able to handle a short spike if it encountered one. I might not be clear on where the fuse is going.. I have not seen the setup you are running.

Phil, Your car looks like it rolled out of the factory with your engine setup in it, you would definitely not want to add anything that would take away from that.

[jdk_ii]

Jim, Why would one need the fuse anyway?
Alternators should be regulated by the circuitry on the back of it. The battery should be able to handle a short spike if it encountered one. I might not be clear on where the fuse is going.. I have not seen the setup you are running.

Have an alternator go kashietz. No thanks having a battery overcharge. :D

Fuses are best, closest to the power source (battery terminal).

[Dangerous Ken]

Personally, I liked the ideal of an inline maxi fuse holder just because its simple and will look relatively stock. I saw a picture of this mod somewhere that was simple and elegant, but can't find it now. Most of those stereo amp wiring kits have stuff that looks too bling.

Ok, there is a reason you need to go to a 'bling' maxi fuse holder.
The ones that look 'stock' come wired with 10 guage wire...

To see the benefit of this wiring mod, a four guage line needs to be run. That way current will travel along the four guage (path of least resistance) rather than to the fuse box.

The only four guage inline fuse holders I have seen are from the car audio realm. Maxi fuses come 40/50/60/70/80 amps and are available from the car audio equipment suppliers.

Once you get to the 100A+ alternators, you have to go ANL fuse, and those are generally in the range of 100/150/200/250/300 amps and usually come adaptable to 4 or 0 guage wire.

Now there are also 4 guage capable inline glass fuses 5 - 80 amps used in car stereo fused distribution blocks, but as mentioned, those are designed to blow fast.

Finally, another 'fuse' solution in the right amperage range are those 'breaker switches'. I've tried them on a stereo system and they flip on just about any spike - pain in the butt.

The fusable links are another size 'standard' all together. More on the order of 0.5 - 10A, and thus out of the 'Maxi' amperage range. Now we are talking ATC, small plastic spade or small glass tube.

Ken

[rwago]

Have an alternator go kashietz. No thanks having a battery overcharge. :D

Fuses are best, closest to the power source (battery terminal).

Agreed, but has anyone seen a alternator fail by putting out more power. Most fail by not putting out enough power to even charge the battery. Then lights start going dim...

I know fuses are best, but my guess would be there is a fuse or current limiting device built in to the alternator. This is your power source, the battery stores the power for use. I do not know for sure about the fuse inside the alternator as I do not rebuild them. Just throwing some ideas out there.


<---only trying to help out.

[Tire Shredder]

this wasn' answered earlier so i'm going to throw it out there again. Hopefully a knowledgable person will have a response for me...

with my limited knowledge of wiring, I would think that it would be more beneficial for an even larger wire such as a 0/1 gauge amp power wire to supply power...as upposed to a 4 gauge...is there any down side besides it being excessive?

[Dangerous Ken]

with my limited knowledge of wiring, I would think that it would be more beneficial for an even larger wire such as a 0/1 gauge amp power wire to supply power...as upposed to a 4 gauge...is there any down side besides it being excessive?

Yes, 4 times the cost for both the wire and the end terminals.
Have you ever tried terminating (flowing solder) on 0 guage...

Battery terminal to alternator is barely adequate with factory 6 guage (the wire actually heats up...) - 4 guage is more than double the size.

Basically the longer length you go, you have to up the wire size 'to be safe'. Worst would be the too small wire heating up enough to burn the insulation off and then you are grounding to the unibody...

Ken

[SolidStateS15]

this wasn' answered earlier so i'm going to throw it out there again. Hopefully a knowledgable person will have a response for me...

with my limited knowledge of wiring, I would think that it would be more beneficial for an even larger wire such as a 0/1 gauge amp power wire to supply power...as upposed to a 4 gauge...is there any down side besides it being excessive?

it's pointless, would take up more space, be tacky, more resistance, etc etc. unless you have a HUGE custom alternator pushing out like 300 amps you don't need 0ga going to the battery. now on the otherhand, from the battery to the amp(s) if you have a large enough system then that is different and you could possibly use the larger cable. 4ga is said to be good to around 150amps, so pretty much any alt you find will be under this and can use it. it's also not putting out full power constantly either, only on demand.

[pdupler]

But, you already have 6 gauge going a heck of a long way from the alternator to the fuse box to the battery and for the most part, that was adequate up until 20 years of aging increased resistance in places. If you run another 6 gauge wire essentially parallel, won't the combination of the two have the effect of being basically a bigger wire? Won't some of the current pass along each? Wouldn't something more than half the amps go down the shorter, direct wire, thus relieving the burden on the stock wire? Its not mutually exclusive, going down only one path or the other, right? Sorry, I don't pretend to know what I'm talking about, just trying to understand.

[SolidStateS15]

you can run 2 6's if you want, but it's just nicer and easier to get a new 4ga going directly to the batt and fused. this way the stock wiring still isn't disabled, but suplemented and in a sense overridden because the larger cable which will take on most of the load.

again this really only needs to be done if you A. have a 7M swap, or B. have a huge electrical load like a stereo system and are planning on getting a larger alt. jim is making the kits for 7m swaps mainly because the stock wiring can't handle the increase.

what everyone else can do besides this is also a grounding kit, which i also highly recomend. it will make everything run way smoother, and get even power. your headlights will also be much brighter if you send better grounds their way. if you don't know how to make your own they sell universal kits on ebay all the time, but it's very simple.

[SonyPete]

Now what gets me is the little ity bitty bolt and connector that were putting this 4gauge wire to. That thing just wants to snap everytime I tighten it lol.

But then agian I have a 22RE.

I was going to do this extra wire setup but was afraid that since it wans't in a relay that there might be some kinda of draw potentially?? Or is the stock route not in a relay??

[SolidStateS15]

Now what gets me is the little ity bitty bolt and connector that were putting this 4gauge wire to. That thing just wants to snap everytime I tighten it lol.

But then agian I have a 22RE.

I was going to do this extra wire setup but was afraid that since it wans't in a relay that there might be some kinda of draw potentially?? Or is the stock route not in a relay??

no relay to the alt, no draw with the car off. the alternator output has diodes in it anyhow that would block DC current from the batt so there's not any reverse draw like that.

and again, you wouldn't need this on a 22RE unless you have a much larger than stock alt in there. doesn't hurt to upgrade it, but you don't need the large 4ga persay since you will never use it all. what will benefit you more is the grounding which i described above.

[jdk_ii]

Adding a duplicate 6 gauge wire from the alternator
to the battery positive terminal, basically splits your current usage.

You are now charging your battery more directly, not through the borderline fusebox.
This is a good upgrade, even for a stock MK2.

This is a basic upgrade, everything else stock. Add the extra 6 gauge ground wires,
and you have a more efficient alternator to battery charging circuit and avoid pulling strong current through the engine fuse box (it's a <= 1985 design)

Next, add more current draw. Car amp, foglights, HDTV, disco lights.

If one exceeds the alternator supply current, you need to upgrade your alternator. Otherwise, your battery will not re-charge fast enough. And likely
the wires will get warm/hot.

Now, with more current, one needs to size the alternator re-charge wire appropriately.

4G is a rule of thumb for a amperage flow of 100a for a wire length of 25-30 feet.
This buys quite a room of insurance, especially if you plan to draw more amperage (ie, future electrical upgrades).

With this size wire, your alternator to battery recharge wire has faster pathway (less resistance).

The only reason to go with real thick wire, is remote (trunk) batteries.
Starters have spike currents. Or one has installed some silly large alternator.

[Donn29]

Have an alternator go kashietz. No thanks having a battery overcharge. :D

Fuses are best, closest to the power source (battery terminal).
The fuse won't really help if the alterntors shits off. If it overvolts, the amerage wouldn't go up much, probably down if anything. Either that or the alternator puts out more of a AC/DC mix-voltage. There really for making sure you don't kill the alternator, or start slipping the belt. Pulling the rated amperage out of alternator is NOT SUGGESTED. it will over-heat and will need a part or two to get back on the road. A 60A Fuse on a 60A Alt is almost excessive, if there is the main lead going to the [meltable... sorry Jim!] fusebox still.


How were you measuring amperage before? Inductive DC meter??? PIMP

[Donn29]

no relay to the alt, no draw with the car off. the alternator output has diodes in it anyhow that would block DC current from the batt so there's not any reverse draw like that.

and again, you wouldn't need this on a 22RE unless you have a much larger than stock alt in there. doesn't hurt to upgrade it, but you don't need the large 4ga persay since you will never use it all. what will benefit you more is the grounding which i described above.
Adding another ground and positve is still suggested on any setup. Mainly due to the old wiring having dead/weak spots, like Phil D said, more resisatnce, less voltage, more amperage. After that is fire-ville.

Also to answer another post, there are no fuses inside an alt. pull to much amperage and the voltage drops.

[supra_toy]

A fuse is also there not just incase of over charge from the alt but if the car gets into a accident and the wire is grounded or because of a accidental short (either during assembly or disassembly)

always a good idea to use a fuse in this type of situation

will

[SolidStateS15]

A fuse is also there not just incase of over charge from the alt but if the car gets into a accident and the wire is grounded or because of a accidental short (either during assembly or disassembly)

always a good idea to use a fuse in this type of situation

will

mostly for that right, just extra insurrance that doesn't cost a whole lot. saves from exploding batteries. you can do it w/o, it's your car but just know what can happen if there was a problem. i ran my last car direct from the alt-batt, but it really should have been fused. most cars now come with fusable links at least in the alt line, as well as a fuse in the box.

[Donn29]

A fuse is also there not just incase of over charge from the alt but if the car gets into a accident and the wire is grounded or because of a accidental short (either during assembly or disassembly)

always a good idea to use a fuse in this type of situation

will
A fuse will not do anything in the event of an overcharging...Period

[SolidStateS15]

A fuse will not do anything in the event of an overcharging...Period

only if there was an increase in current, but no not a voltage spike which is what it usually is. usually the rectifier goes bad and you just get a mixed ac/dc signal that makes things go crazy. nothing can prevent that except a better external regulator.

[Tire Shredder]

sorry to bring back an older thread, but now that I'm back in oshawa I was thinking of shopping for some nice 4 gauge wire and fuse from a stereo shop. I wasn't smart enough to see how long of a wire I would need.

For a 5m/6m car, how long of a wire will I need (with excess) to wire a secondary line from the alternator to battery?

Also, I read it all again and am still confused. Most situations talked about covered a 7m. Although I don't have a 7m, I will eventually and want to ensure the fuse is the proper size for my 60 amp alternator, and perhaps get a different one for the 7m. If I am to buy a fuse for this wire, using the 5m and stock 60 amp alternator, what amperage rating fuse should I be looking for?

[Tire Shredder]

I bought 8 gold plated terminals today and 15 feet of 4 gauge wire with a 60 amp fuse for this project. I hope to replace my ground wires aswell. I went to a car audio place and was told by the shop owner that his 4 gauge wire was way over priced, and that welding wire would be a much better option for a permanent battery feed line. It was $1.85/ft instead of $2/ft aswell. He claimed it had somewhere around 1000 strands more of wire in it aswell...I don't believe him but it certainly does have more strands in it. It seems to have a thicker, more durable insulation coating on it than the stereo wire aswell. I'm excited to get this project going and thought some others might be interested in what I found.

oh yes...it's black too and I was able to pick up 25 feet of loom at the same autoparts store for $10!

[SolidStateS15]

welding wire is good, and i use it a lot too for the same reasons. the only thing bad about it is, that it's not oxygen free copper like stereo wire which is why it's cheaper. that means that it will corrode pretty fast if it's exposed so you need to heat shrink the terminals to seal out air and then it's fine.

[Tire Shredder]

yup plan on doing that, thanks for the tip.

[jdk_ii]

welding wire is good, and i use it a lot too for the same reasons. the only thing bad about it is, that it's not oxygen free copper like stereo wire which is why it's cheaper. that means that it will corrode pretty fast if it's exposed so you need to heat shrink the terminals to seal out air and then it's fine.


Good stuff. And flexible.

It's best to solder the terminal ends (they have these solder plugs for this).

I should be getting some proto samples in Feb.

[williamb82]

in my first car i used 2awg welding cable for the amp power wire. it was like $0.70/ft. worked great and way more flexible the nthe stereo stuff.

[Tire Shredder]

the 5m will be easy to find space to make it nice and neat. For those with 7ms, where did you mount your fuse for the power wire?

[Tire Shredder]

Hey Guys,

Bringing this thread back because I just did the alternator power upgrade today. I plan on posting some pics tomorrow afternoon. I must say it was very easy to do for such a large piece of mind. I used 2 gauge welding wire (many small strands) with a very thick insulation. I found that this 2 gauge welding wire just barely fit inside 4 gauge gold plated ring terminals, designed for stereos so that's what I purchased. I used an inline AUG fuse holder with 60 amp fuse (what it came with) near the battery. I installed the terminals by crimping, soldering, shrink wrapping and taping them, then I covered it all in split loom (excessive, but it looks stock this way). The whole assembly is 7ft 5 inches tip to tip. All of this on a 5m with freshy rebuilt alternator and with the battery in the stock location. I would say you could shorten this cable by atleast 5 inches, maybe a foot if you wanted to. The cable ended up being so long because I ziptied it to the stock wiring loom - it fits between the radiator and condensor with slack under the air filter and a smooth curve to the alternator. The only obvious hint that there is not stock wiring is the inline holder which spans the area between the rad and the terminal.

Thanks Jim, for letting us know about this issue and doing the testing. It may be excessive for the wimpy 60 amp stock alternator, but I feel better about my car's electrical system now.

Steve

[jdk_ii]

Yep, it's an easy upgrade. Depending on how detailed one wants to be. :D

And if one is using more electrical accessories, it's a wise upgrade.

I'm finally getting my set remade (solder pellets, heat shrink, etc).
The guy I'm getting mine from is setup to make a bunch.
Simply if it's within cost of buying an amp kit, and it's just bolt on,
may be worth investigating a group buy.

The one part that I'm after is this 4 Maxi-Fuse holder below. It's automotive,
sealed, and looks kind of factory like. This to replace the 3 fusible links at
the battery terminal. Leaves one extra for say an electric fan, etc.

Small enough, it can find it's home in a few places near the battery.
I'm even thinking next to the existing engine fuse box.

It's better priced than the individual Maxi-Fuse holders that I wanted to use.
And there is no 5 gazillion minimum quantity...

They also have some simple, non-sealed maxi-fuse holders, that might work
well for the engine fusebox fusible links.

I'm somewhat resigned to using power distribution blocks from say Stinger
or Schoshe. Reasonably cheap, sealed, etc. Probably paint them black to remove the bling. :D
http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b318/jdk_ii/maxibox.jpg

[Andrew]

Pictures please!

[jdk_ii]

Pictures please!

These are good (http://www.askmen.com/specials/2007_top_99/) pictures

[Tire Shredder]

Here's a few pics as promised.

This is before it goes in for the last time, terminated properly and the correct length. The fuse holder was purchased from a stereo store. I taped the internal connectors as well for extra insurance, even though the holder has gaskets. I intend on shaving the bracket off and possibly painting it black when the weather gets nice. It does not look bad at all installed though. My slight case of OCD may drive me to replace the red wire with the same welding wire but my parents say they'll commit me if I do so. The red wire was already terminated and is 4 gauge wire so no real reason to I guess...
http://i19.tinypic.com/2vrwmma.jpg

The stock terminal all cleaned up and the new wire mounted. I sprayed all the connectors with silicone lubricant, designed to waterproof electrical connectors but without the mess of dielectric grease.
http://i17.tinypic.com/4cm96o0.jpg

looking good with the split loom. Please excuse the mess, she has not been cleaned since September.
http://i18.tinypic.com/33uxuvb.jpg

The wire coming out from in front of the rad, zip-tied to the original wiring loom. There you can see my brand new K&N filter courtesy of Robert from 935, free from the PA meet...thanks Pina!
http://i15.tinypic.com/2v16gyc.jpg

The other end of the cable, fastened to the alternator.
http://i13.tinypic.com/4brqqzp.jpg

[discoelk]

Steve, did you notice any difference from doing this mod? Are the headlights brighter, less interior light dimming?

[Junkie]

These are good (http://www.askmen.com/specials/2007_top_99/) pictures


:iocrunks2:

[AZNinaSUPRA]

just to clarify, two modifications have been talked about here. one direct line from alt to battery with fuse. ok fine i get that. the other: a better ground? from what i gather, this mod is more suitable for mostly stock setup? i have an amp with two 10" subs that i would like to connect. can some one please clear up for me what my set up would be considered and what i would need to do? oh and maybe some instructions on how to do it?:-D im sorry if i am a bit out of it but its 3 am and i just read this entire thread.

[supra83mkii]

AZNinaSUPRA

How much power are you ganna be running on the amp?

When I had my 800 watt amp and my 2 12's:zzzzz: , and my 1 f cap my car was ok, with out the cap I couldn't run the fog lights and the system at the same time. It would suck up to much juice. Also the lights would dim, and my power windows where really slow.http://www.cardomain.com/member_pages/show_image.pl?bg=000000&image=http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/11/web/479000-479999/479522_4_full.jpg

When I upgraded to my 6m and a 80 amp alt, I also upgraded my system to a 2000 watt DHD power cruiser amp 1ohm stable 1 channel, and my 2 DHD 12's 1000 RMS, 2000 MAX each, and my 800 watt was used for 2 6x9's,:dj_smiley I also had 4g wire for both amps the 800 watt had a 80 amp fuse and the 2000 watt had a 140amp circuit breaker on it, and with the 80 amp alt I had very minimal voltage loss from the battery at full base it would still give me 12.5v to 13v from the battery, and it still has the stock wires.

I had my 800 watt in there for about 2 years and my 2800 watt system in there for about 2 1/2 years in total I have had a system in my car for 4 1/2 years and never had a problem with the wires getting hot or melting.

[jdk_ii]

Steve, did you notice any difference from doing this mod? Are the headlights brighter, less interior light dimming?

One will find that the headlights at "idle" are a bit brighter with this mod
than stock.

I ran a on the stock black MK2 with Hella H4's. At idle, pulled
the fuse on the extra battery to alternator cable. Lights dimmed a bit.

Honestly, the car should have more like an 80amp alternator.
Naturally, with this mod.

[ABUSEDDOG]

I'm wondering if a similar mod done to the starter cable would yield benifical results? especially in a cold weather cranking enviroment like edmonton.

[jdk_ii]

I'm wondering if a similar mod done to the starter cable would yield benifical results? especially in a cold weather cranking enviroment like edmonton.

Sure. Starter amp pull is quite high for a short period. Given
the factory cable size, it's undersized.

Just make sure your ground wires are the same gauge.

[Dave A.]

What about installing a ammeter somewhere inside the car to go along with the 4ga. wiring kit? That way you could monitor how much current is being produced by the alt. under various electrical load conditions. Some additional wiring would be needed to connect the gauge in series with the alt. and the battery but I'm not sure how much of a PITB that would be. Just a thought!

[Tire Shredder]

so far it looks like the dimming headlights issue is solved!

[AZNinaSUPRA]

can anyone please help me understand the ground wire mod as stated above? also, would either of these mods help with the battery guage going down every time i use a signal or window? im a little OCD and cant stand the sight of it.

[SilverMk2]

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b318/jdk_ii/maxibox.jpg

Jim,

Where did you find that multi-maxifuse block at? I've been looking for one of those. I've been wanting to eliminate that section of wiring to clean things up a bit.

[jdk_ii]

so far it looks like the dimming headlights issue is solved!

butter !

[jdk_ii]

Jim,

Where did you find that multi-maxifuse block at? I've been looking for one of those. I've been wanting to eliminate that section of wiring to clean things up a bit.

After lots of searching (and I mean LOTS), they are from Europe.
These would look great for a clean install. IE, one would have to notice it.

I have a contact that is going to scoop some samples and see what
kind of bulk pricing we can get.

[CLToy]

I took advantage of this mod and used a car audio breaker-type fuse. I realize that this may not break, but at least it makes me feel good about it! ;) Now, if I only had a larger than 60A alternator on my 82 L-type.

[jdk_ii]

It's a good insurance policy, regardless of any electrical additions.

As I've discovered, even a bone stock MK2, those engine fuse box relays
get quite hot with just the igntion on. Damon confirmed when he was working on his blue MK2.

No news on those sexy Maxi-fuse holders. :sadsmilie

[williamb82]

well, i installed a 4 awg power cable from the alt + to the battery + with a 80 amp fuse on it. i havent noticed much of a diff but its only been a day. im gonna buy some more 4 awg wire and put some new grounds on and see if that helps. one from the head to the body and one from the body to the neg of the battery. id do the one from the block to the battery too to replace the stock skinny one (8awg maybe?) but i dont think its necc on my 85. only thing added was the cheap 4 channel amp.

[jdk_ii]

well, i installed a 4 awg power cable from the alt + to the battery + with a 80 amp fuse on it. i havent noticed much of a diff but its only been a day. im gonna buy some more 4 awg wire and put some new grounds on and see if that helps. one from the head to the body and one from the body to the neg of the battery. id do the one from the block to the battery too to replace the stock skinny one (8awg maybe?) but i dont think its necc on my 85. only thing added was the cheap 4 channel amp.

You need to add the same size ground wires. Battery to fender, battery
to engine block, and the engine to firewall.

I also upgraded my starter cable. Should have some pics by the NE meet.

[williamb82]

well i know i need ot upgrade the ground wires. bought the stuff yesterday to do it. ill prolly do it today. im still on the stock altenator in this car. im just tryin to get it to stay at 14v when stopped at stop lights instead of droppin to 12v. its an auto car so im not sure thatll be possible at night with the lights on and ac on and stereo etc.. lol

[ddd228]

I did mine today.I just piggybacked a 10 guage wire to the battery with a 50 amp relay I stole out of a battery charger.I'll meter it soon. I did it "live" so I was careful.Curious to see what happens,short of a melt down.

[KesekiSupra]

i was never able to keep my car from going to 13v at idle with all my accessories on, even with upgraded factory grounds and additional grounds, and a secondary power wire from the alt to the battery with a 60 amp fuse. and this was running a 7m alt upgraded to 100amps. as soon as my car hit 1k tho, it run full 14.3v and never drop no matter what. i guess a slightly smaller pulley would have helped it ey. i didnt see it as a problem to waste time on though.

[williamb82]

mine doesnt drop to 12v anymore. does move down at idle though. my 7m car i set the idle to 1k with the isc plugged so maybe thats why im used to havin the car always at 14v. if this car wasnt an auto id do it to this one as well. and i wouldnt recomend the smaller pulley as if you run the rpm's way up on a frequent basis as i always did the alts seem to die alot. good thing i had the lifetime warrenty. lol. then again could have just been crappy alts from autozone. who knows.