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View Full Version : 85 p type dash gauges/power steering belt



whyhoo
12-02-2006, 06:18 PM
please bear with me - i've done some searching and a lot of reading in in the forums and i'm hoping that by providing a little background on the problem that some experienced folk can point me in the right direction:

i've recently purchased an 85 p-type that has been sitting for a few years with 150k on the engine. i took the adventure to NYC, drove it back to Rhode Island and managed to make it in one piece. before leaving NYC, the seller installed a new alternator from autozone, charged the mostly dead battery, changed the front brake pads, and changed the oil with fully synthetic.

on the way home the water pump went and i ended up putting a hole in the radiator from running it too hot - though i was able to stop and go to the garage i needed to get to without ever maxing out the temperature gauge. the garage installed a new water pump and radiator, and i was on my way.

i haven't been driving the car much, but i have everything on hand to get it in order - spark plugs, cap/rotor/wires and fuel filter. so that's my brief history with this car the last couple of weeks.

after it had been sitting for a few days i went to start it and the battery was dead - not surprising considering the battery had been sitting a few years and needed to be charged to leave NYC. so i borrowed a battery and it started up, but the light was still on on the battery gauge. i bought a new 27 battery and the light was still on. while looking under the hood, i noticed that the belt from the power steering pump was rubbing against the connector from the water pump to the radiator fan, and also slightly on edge of the water pump pulley itself. so while i though it was likely that the autozone alternator had gone bad, i wondered if the power steering belt was rubbing and causing any undue strain on the other belts and pulleys - and i assumed the mechanic that installed the water pump and radiator had not adjusted the seating of the power steering pump and belt properly. i went back to the mechanic that installed the water pump and radiator this morning and showed it to him - it's obvious that the belt from the power steering pump is not where it should be. he agreed and put a thinner belt on and adjusted where the power steering pump sat - he also tested the alternator and determined we should install the new denso OEM alternator i had on hand.

with the new alternator in, the battery light went out - one problem solved. but, when i looked at the belt from the power steering pump again, it still looked like it was rubbing a little and my mechanic said that wouldn't be a problem (which i'm not sure i believe). so leaving the mechanic this morning i drive for about 10 miles and all of sudden the tach drops and the battery gauges drop down to nothing - and then i notice the oil and temp gauges are not working either. the digital clock, analog speedometer and gas gauge work still. i also noticed the power windows and sunroof do not work - but the wipers, headlights, power mirrors, power locks, and map lights still work. it also may be worth noting that i hear a relay or switch of some sort clicking from under the middle of the dash board (and had previously to this recent round of trouble) - happens every 30 seconds or so while driving, and it's quiet enough not hear while on the highway - sounds almost like the click you hear from the dash when locking the doors from inside (maybe something to do with the factory alarm?).

my questions are:

1. does any one have any idea what to look for concerning the sudden loss of specific gauges and power features?

2. any opinions on the power steering pump belt problem i've described?

3. probably easy - not sure if the gas guage isn't working right, but i can only fill up to about 2/3 before the pump clicks off - what is the cause of this?

thanks in advance for the help!

CELICA XX
12-02-2006, 06:28 PM
Check all electrical connections to the battery including the ground wire.

As long as you are using all OEM parts there shouldn't be any issues. You said something about using the wrong belt ?

I have no idea.

whyhoo
12-02-2006, 06:39 PM
concerning #2 - the mechanic ordered a belt that was not as wide, i think in hopes of getting a better fit - i think my next step is a second opinion on that and bringing it somewhere that focuses on electrical - i'm hoping you folks can let me know if there's anything quirky about this car and these problems that i can relay to the mechanic next week.

CELICA XX
12-02-2006, 06:51 PM
the mechanic ordered a belt that was not as wide, i think in hopes of getting a better fit

I can't believe your mechanic would install the wrong belt.

Always use the proper part for the correct fit.

whyhoo
12-02-2006, 06:52 PM
honestly i don't know what he was thinking, and i'm hoping he hasn't caused me any additional problems!

CELICA XX
12-02-2006, 07:03 PM
Time for a new mechanic ?

whyhoo
12-02-2006, 07:07 PM
well i went to him originally by necessity - closest to where the water pump kicked it! we'll see what the next one has to say - i swear i have the worst luck with mechanics.

whyhoo
12-02-2006, 07:38 PM
does anyone know what the stock belt size is for the power steering pump?

CELICA XX
12-02-2006, 08:03 PM
does anyone know what the stock belt size is for the power steering pump?

Not sure of the size... each brand will have their own part number.

Duralast, Good-Year Gatorback, Gates, etc...

whyhoo
12-04-2006, 08:05 AM
anyone else have any ideas on these few things?

Nogoodnik
12-04-2006, 09:11 AM
Clicking noise??? I have that. What the hell is it? It started when I replaced my stolen radio and put in the factory brackets.

CELICA XX
12-04-2006, 11:28 AM
... and for the clicking issues, search for DVV

whyhoo
12-04-2006, 01:06 PM
thanks celica xx -

here is the clicking thread for reference:

http://forums.celicasupra.com/showthread.php?t=27004&page=2&highlight=DVV

"steady (clicking) sounds like a vacuum leak, either the DVV or the actuator itself.
Most likely the DVV.."

edit: or even better:

http://forums.celicasupra.com/showthread.php?t=1308&highlight=DVV

whyhoo
12-04-2006, 01:18 PM
the mechanic claims that the power steering belt touching the outer part of the water pump pulley will not cause undue strain on the water pump. i beg to differ - can anyone support me on this and confirm that i'm not crazy?!

the bottom of the belt is touching the hub just beyond the outer edge of the pulley on the new water pump - and the edge of the inside edge (towards passenger compartment) of the power steering belt touches the outer edge (towards front of car) of the pulley on the water pump.

seems to me that mechanically speaking, if it's touching, it's adding load.

Road Ripper
12-04-2006, 06:22 PM
Sounds confusing, but I'll try. The water pump should have 2 pulleys on it:

front of car^
Fan/clutch assembly
single V groove pulley (for power steering pump belt)

then either-
84-86 wide serpentine belt/pulley (for alternator, water pump, crank)
82-83 dual V groove pulleys/V belts (^same thing^)

My only guess right now is that you're missing half of the first V groove pulley for your power steering, and the belt is riding on the edge of the alternator part of the pulley. That part could have been misplaced by the incompetent mechanic that worked on it (installed water pump), or it was missing when you originally bought the car. Does this sound right?

whyhoo
12-04-2006, 07:25 PM
thanks dan - so are you saying that the water pump should have an additional pulley that extends beyond the main one that the power steering pump belt runs over? because right now I only see 1 pulley thats fully occupied by the wide serpentine belt. the ps pump belt goes right by that pulley and rubs on the outer edge of it - and now that you mention, it sure does look like there should be a pulley there.

but now i'm not sure if it was missing when i brought the car in for the water pump. it does seem possible that the mechanic did not do a good job... but it also seem like it's common sense to make what you put in match what you pulled out. does it seem to jive that this belt rubbing where there should be a pulley could cause the water pump undue stress and burn it out early?

does anyone know about the water pumps you'd typically receive from a parts supplier, and whether they come with this pulley or not? is the pulley a seperate piece from the water pump? i'm dropping it off in the morning, so the more info i have to relay, the more likely this will get fixed right!

taraquian
12-04-2006, 07:32 PM
no, the pulley does not come with aftermarket pumps. it should b pretty easy to source from a wrecking yard, but if not i'm sure someone has a spare (i have 3 of them...).

as far as undue stress i don't think so, unless its riding at a weird angle, i drove with mine like that for a long timeand it didn't hurt the water pump.

CELICA XX
12-04-2006, 07:39 PM
Although it's not a 3D representation, this is a pretty good visual.


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v490/celica_supra/Forum/belt_routing.jpg

whyhoo
12-04-2006, 07:59 PM
that visual is key... thanks! now i wonder if they didn't put it back on, or if it wasn't there to begin with... do they commonly go missing?!

Road Ripper
12-05-2006, 03:17 AM
It could be easy to drop and misplace, as the single V groove pulley is split (2 halves = small flat parts). Yes, there is supposed to be a pulley in there. I would be more worried about the V-belt failing and loosing the power steering! I would suspect the mechanic dropped it while removing the fan and forgot to look for/reinstall it. There's 2 halves of the V-groove pulley, then the separate serpentine pulley that go over the water pump hub.

As for the water pump, I've never had problems with any of mine (had one with almost 200,000 miles on original pump), but there could be issues with aftermarket pumps like auto parts stores carry. Maybe the pumps fail in hotter climates? When in doubt, go OEM. Good luck, and I hope the mechanic owns up to his mistake if he did indeed lose the pulley.

whyhoo
12-05-2006, 01:33 PM
Thanks DAN!!! dropped it off this morning and told them it was missing - they scored one from the junkyard and i'm back in action... now to figure out why the gauges (except gas and speedo), windows, sunroof, and heater stopped working all at once... any one see a common link between those things, electrical wise?

Donn29
12-08-2006, 05:24 PM
Number 1: Have you checked any possiblyreplated fuses?
Check in and around the fuse boxes, or at the compnents themselves to look for grounds that have rusted away, or damaged wiring.

Number 3: It may be a dented tank, or again, bad grounds by the tank.

Also, denso did not make the OEM alternator for our car, it is a ND. I'd much rather the orginal rebuilt than another make. The autozone alts die quickly in these cars. Not sure if it is a problem with our particular alt, or they all suck from them.