It has begun... oh yea!

[SkoonMA67]

Hey guys,

I know a bunch of you really arnt going to care about this, but Ive finally decided on a new project.

I have just aquired a used HKS F-Con Vpro engine computer and with some assistance from RCTS in Calgary Im going to be running my 5MGE on the Vpro alowing complete tuning with sequential ignition and fuel injection.

Also included is a vpro controller switch which allows for changing ignition/fuel map settings on the fly via a rotory knob.

Its going to be awesome,.... I dont want to hear ANY negative feedback on this project. If you have nothing to say, dont say it ;)

Project begins with collecting all my 2JZ ignitor clips, a 12-1 crank angle wheel and a 2JZ cam sensor. Then when summer rolls around, it begins ;)

Aaron

[joefoe]

sounds like you will be giving Seamus a run for his money for all out 5mge n/a power. You planning on doing any other engine mods? What header are you going to run?

[Tanya]

*subscribing to thread * :)

[MKIIproject]

good luck... I'll be constantly watching this thread

[Supra_Newfie]

Good luck...I'll be watching this as well as the others!! :D

Grant

[935motorsports]

curious on what you paid...

[Tire Shredder]

curious on what you paid...
i agree.

did reg have any tips on 5mge tuning? tell us about your plans!

[SkoonMA67]

I got the Vpro cheap, lets just leave it at that for now ;) Ill have a project breakdown once I get all the parts sourced out for the thing.

We are going to be using the 12-1 crank trigger from a 2JZGTE with the 2JZ crank sensor and a 2JZ cam sensor mounted in the old hulk of the distributor to give us cam position.

The Vpro comes with a 3bar MAP sensor, so the stock AFM is going to be history.. bye bye flappy door! :D Since the system is going to be coil-on-plug, bye bye plug wires/coil!! Also comes with a knock sensor/amp for tuning.

Seing as we are using the 2JZ trigger wheel/sensors/ignition coils, we are going to be basing the initial tune on a 2JZ map and moving from there. Since there is no turbo (for now ;), wink wink) we are just going to eliminate the boost maps from the ignition/fuel map header code(s).

In the end, there will be no Toyota ECM. The Vpro will control all fuel and ignition functions using the crank/cam/map sensors. This means FULL sequential fuel injection (no more jettronic!! weeeee :D) and full ignition control with knock sensor and wideband onboard.

Parts needed so far for the conversion:

6x 2JZGTE ignition coils (the bulk of the expense, right there)
6x 2JZGTE ignition coil clips/stub harnesses
2JZGTE crank trigger wheel
2JZGTE intake cam sensor
2JZGTE crank sensor
2JZGTE ignitor
some sort of custom spark plug vally cover to bold the coils to

Vpro I have, universal harness I have, Vpro control selector knob I have, 5MGE and MA67, check and check.

Ill keep you all up to date on this as it progresses. The car is still burried in a snow bank right now and the parts still have to be collected, so dont expect any MAJOR developments until early spring/mid summer at best.

I just want to get this out there incase anyone else is thinking of going stand alone. This will give all of you another option, provided I dont blow it all up ;)

I still cant stop giggeling... this is going to be fun ;)

Ciao!

[MKIIproject]

Just wondering... Do you have stock internals in that 5m? And if so, what year was the 5m for... for compression reasons?

[SkoonMA67]

The 5M is stock. Not even sure what the stock compression is on my '83 :lol

Just found out today that E46 3 Series BMW coils from 2002 and up run about the same voltage as the 2JZ coils, so Im set for life as far as coils are concerned. Seeing as I work at a BMW shop, I have all the coils I could possibly want ;) hehe.

I also have an old E46 330ci engine harness lying under my bench so I have all the connectors I'll need as well!!


-Scratch the coils off the list!
-Scratch the coil plugs / stub harnesses off the list too

WOOT!!!

[935motorsports]

Now I get it. Working at a BMW shop makes you appreciate the inline 6 NA setup.

I have a BMW only full service mechanic next door to my shop and he doesn't get the whole turbo thing. Every day he shakes his head while I work on the 7mgtes and 1jzgtes. He's always working on M3s and other powerful NA BMWs.

[SkoonMA67]

yea, the inline 6 is a nice motor.

Im just going the Vpro route because its never been done on a 5M before. If it runs as well as we hope afterwards, Ill see about convincing you other guys about it ;) hehe.

On a side not, the 2JZ coils are 2 or 3 wire? I thought they were a 3 wire, but now I'm not sure... giant brain fart... :( Come to think of it, I have to check the BMW coils too... maybe they are 2 wires... lol.

I think that means its bed time... haha. Ill post what I find out tomorrow.

[935motorsports]

7m, 1jz, and 2jz coils are 2 wire

A coil only needs a + and a - to fire. I'm not sure what the 3rd wire would be for.

7M fires in pairs, JZ coils fire individually

As far as I know the most powerful 7mge ran a tecII system, so it would be nice to see another NA on standalone setup.

[SkoonMA67]

i remember now, its the new M5 and M6 with the V10 engines that run a 3 wire setup on the coils. duh! hehe ;)

The 3rd wire is used as a referance wire so that the DME (control unit) can monitor the voltage of each coil every firing cycle. It uses the voltage at the plug as a way of measureing missfires.

Those engines (the V10 BMW M engine) do not have knock sensors. They use the above setup to more accuratly determine which cylinder is missfiring and under what conditions it is doing so.

There, got that all straight now ;) hehe.

Giant brain fart.

g'night! lol :)

[Tire Shredder]

so tell us Robert, what makes you "get it" now?

[SkoonMA67]

Looking today at my E46 coils we find that they are, in fact, 3wire coils. Each coil shares a common ground and a common power. The 3rd wire is a signal wire from the DME (engine computer), presumably the one that switches the coils on and off when needed.

This makes sense, as the E46 does not have an ignitor as we commonly know them.

More investigating is needed now me's thinks, as to wether or not the Vpro is capable of running such a setup without an ignitor.

More as it comes.

[Tire Shredder]

just the first stumbling block is all it is. There will be many, but stay with it.

[SkoonMA67]

no doubt ;) Aint stopping till its done, no worries!! The project is going to happen wether I have to buy 2JZ coils, aftermarket coils or whatever. She's gonna run! Just TONS cheaper to get the coils from work at cost, as well as having a harness for them as well.

[SilverMk2]

3 or 4 wire coils generally have the ignitor integrated to the coil pack. Most new cars use these now. BTW I thought you can't remove the stock ECU with the Vpro? The way I understand its the HKS version of the Emanage and modifies the stock output signals.

[SkoonMA67]

the Vpro can manage both ignition and fuel based on stock vehicle sensors. It IS a standalone system. The Vpro controls everything via DIRECT output off the Vpro box. No signal changing, modifying or piggy-backing here ;)

In the case of the 5M, Im going to need to input the following into the Vpro

-Throttle position - can use the wire right at the OE ECM plug
-cam sensor (to be put into the distributor) - custom harness
-crank sensor - custom harness
-fuel injector positive leads (x6) - can use stock OE ECM output wires
-ignition coils (x6) - custom/BMW harness
-ignitor (if needed with the BMW coils) - custom/BMW
-4 wire O2 sensor for wideband and a/f ratio setpoint tuning - custom
-3bar MAP sensor - custom
-intake air temp sensor - custom
-knock sensor - custom
-whatever other outputs I want to have control of... in this case, Vpro selector rotory knob for on the fly map changes, etc...

Like I said, the Vpro controls ALL functions. No stock ECM needed. RCTS has their JZA80 Supra running with NO OE ECM. THe entire car is running on Vpro.

[SkoonMA67]

Update:

Finally got my E46 coil harness and a coil so I can show you all what I'm up to... to this point anyways :D

This shows you the whole ignition coil sub-harness from the E46 with a coil attached to the #1 plug
http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b287/majicmeow/MA67Vpro/Vpro1.jpg

The three wire connectors: Common power, common ground and switched (by Vpro) ignitor
http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b287/majicmeow/MA67Vpro/Vpro2.jpg

On the left, you see the common power/ground wires. On the right, the individual firing circuits for each coil (black w/tracers) and 2 secondary ground wires.
http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b287/majicmeow/MA67Vpro/Vpro3.jpg

The plan is to run the common power/ground off a relay when the key is on. The Vpro will the have the 6 individual ignition circuit wires as direct outputs. The harness will, of course, be extended to make it fit.

More as it comes!

-Aaron

[MKIIproject]

Awesome... good luck