1983 P-Type mudflap anomally? (MkII Mudflap differences)

[Road Ripper]

I first discovered months ago on 7M Powered forums that 1983's came with rear mudflaps. This was contrary to what I have always known before joining any forums. I did some research and found some 83's that NEVER came with rear mudflaps, but yet people doubt me. I figured a thread devoted to this subject was in order, so that we can all compare what we've actually seen instead of blindly believing what's shown in some brochure.

Personally I have never seen an '83 with rear flaps. Is it possible that rear mudflaps were an option? Or maybe something to do with the cut-off date of manufacture?

I've thought of 4 different explanations:

1) The flaps seen were just bolted onto the '83 flares from a newer year.

2) The rear flares were completely swapped out with later units.

3) The 83's that don't have them were built in late 1982 and are titled as 83's.

4) Toyota was using up the rest of it's rear 1982 flares on the early 83's.

I've personally seen 4 1983's in my life, and all of them did not have, or ever had, the rear mudflaps. There isn't even a place on the rear flare to bolt them on. The bottom of the '84 to '86 rear flares are different to accommodate the rear flaps. There is a square hole on the very bottom where a square plastic thing pushes in, to thread the bottom mudflap bolt in.
On the 83 rear flares, that square hole is gone, it's just solid.

I do remember my black '83 was built in Dec. 1982; maybe that's something? There's a Terra Cotta 83 in a junkyard that I go to that doesn't have them, and I could check on the build date sometime. There's the repainted purple 83 that I posted a pic of on CS.com, and it had no rear flaps. Lastly, there's my local friend Funky Monkey 58 that has an '83 with no rear flaps, and the build date is April 1983. FastSpoolSupra had an '83, and his had no rear flaps. I'm just trying to report what I've seen, and make some sense of this.
I don't mind being wrong, but I DO love to discover all the little detailed changes that these cars have.

I did a little searching for 1983 p-type Supras on CarDomain. They were about half and half on having/missing the rear flaps. I'm leaning more on the reason that Toyota was using up old stock. They usually implement changes halfway thru the model year, so that could be why early 83's are missing the rear flaps. I want to find more information to support this theory.

I got these responses from Junkie:
Uhhhhmmmm,Ripper,ALL the 83's I have had ,have 4 MUD FLAPS.
My L-type,Les's P-type,and the Blue 83 a co-worker just purchased.
83's are just plain weird, you could have seen soem late 82,early 83 cars. Through the years,ther have been 83's with 84 features talked about ...ie.130mph speedo,from the dealer,84 cruise control.electrical switches.

I also got a response from Tanya:
My 83 doesn't have any mudflaps, just the rockguards. Don't know if the car came like that originally though. Build date is MAY 1983. Did a search on cs.com, most 83s that are pictured have all 4 mudflaps, lol.

In another thread that I didn't want to hijack, Greg G. asked:
Ripper did you acquire your car from new? Never did Toyota deliver any Supras with only front mudguards.

I bought it from a junkyard with a blown engine with 127k miles. It had a dealership sticker on the hatch from Jacksonville(?) Florida. The best I could tell at the time, the rear flares were original with factory paint (original to the car) and never had any rear mudflaps on it. Usually there's a line worn into the paint from where the rear flap covers the flare, but mine had no line. It DID have only the front mudflaps.

Well, looking for more input and observations so we can work on piecing this mystery together. I should add, this is only about USDM Supras only.

[cagedbear]

i have 1 1983 p type with rear mud flap, they do not bolt on they are clip on=*cheap*

[83mk2supra]

R Ripper-

As I have searched for the replacement for my 83 p's rear flare mudflap/guard, I also have notice a couple of differences. Brought one home form p-n-p (83 p) and found out it was different from my mudguards. I have that one in a different state now, so I can't describe it, however one had a bolt/hole and one did not, it fastened internally along the wheel well.

Probably described somewhere here, never bothered to get around to checking on that particular question.

I thought that I would get an answer to the mudguard question with the recent accquistion of another 83 p, but all four guards are gone! Looks nice without them, but the ride needs a new paint job anyway.

Good luck with the search, I have seen the same parts runovers/leftovers/yearenders/whathaveyou before with year changes in Nissan products as well.

Eric G

[Greg G]

Ripper theres no mystery here. Toyota always started their new model year production in August... so all Aug-Dec 82 cars are 1983 model year units. I will agree that Toyota didnt immediately include the guards and shields on the early 83's, and my memory has hazed as to the exact time when they began adding them.... however once they were factory added, they came in full sets of 4 only. PERIOD.

Given that... heres your gray area... it is possible that a previous owner chose to add only fronts to your "mudguard-free" car, having purchased them over the parts counter. My brother installed the 83 guards on his 82 as soon as they were avl in 1983, so retrofitting them wasnt difficult.

Please understand Im not trying to break your chops... I just dont like when incorrect info is thrown around. I didnt just stumble across these cars a couple years ago... I have studied and revered them since the very beginning.

Using data compiled from a bunch of old cars which have had multiple owners dsnt create an accurate picture either. My apologies if this sounds arrogant, thats not my intention, but youve got to trust me on this.

[supra83mkii]

My 83 came with the rear mud flaps. both are bent know cuz when I had my car towed the guy put the metal thingys wrong :duh: and they slipped and bent my rear mud flaps.

My front passenger side mud flap fell off, and my driver side front mud flap fell of too, I guess it was loose.:duh: I think I still have them somewhere. :duh:

[CJSREDPRA]

Looks like I need to get my sorry ass in gear & take pictures of the 83 P-Type mudflaps I have.

And no..... As stated several times in previous postings already, the rear mudflaps don't "mount" or "screw-in" anywhere... They are held in with some flimsy looking clips. And in some extreme case, they have been known to just come right off. The 84+ redesigned ones, Toyota got it right.

[CJSREDPRA]

After procrastinating for 2 days, I got my act together & took a bunch o' pictures last night. Had a minor glitch w/ photobucket & could not upload them last night, but this should be fixed by the time I get home.

<---- Wonders what other oddball things I can take pictures of next, I've already taken pictures of gearshift knobs... :iocrunks2:

[CELICA XX]

Wonders what other oddball things I can take pictures of next, I've already taken pictures of gearshift knobs...

You can take a picture of the 4 mudflaps on my 82...

* runs and hides *

[supra83mkii]

Hey did any P-types come with the L-types rims?

I saw this guy here in my apartment complex that had a 83 that had L-type rims. Also it did not have a sunroof, it was 5 speed, had the analog gauges, and it was LSD, and he said the car came with the rims.

I asked him if the person who had the car before was the original owner and he said yes.

[ra24man]

Keep in mind that the every P-type I've owned or worked on I always make sure to tighten the screws on the mudguards down. Seeing you live in MN I have also run across plenty of rusted out mudguards. Maybe you're seeing a lot of cars with missing mudguards cause they fell off?

[CJSREDPRA]

Hey did any P-types come with the L-types rims?

I saw this guy here in my apartment complex that had a 83 that had L-type rims. Also it did not have a sunroof, it was 5 speed, had the analog gauges, and it was LSD, and he said the car came with the rims.

I asked him if the person who had the car before was the original owner and he said yes.

GOOD GAWD!!!!!!!

PLEASE!!! Start another thread!!!!! In the wheel section.....

[supra83mkii]

GOOD GAWD!!!!!!!

PLEASE!!! Start another thread!!!!! In the wheel section.....

Sorry, just thought you guys might now, that way I didn't have to post a new thread.

But in that case nevermind.

[CJSREDPRA]

Pretty sad lately that I only have time during my lunch break @ work to get these up. So....

Except for where noted, these are all the Left Rear flaps.

83 on the left, 84+ on the right.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v285/looperboy81/2007_0405Image0474.jpghttp://img.photobucket.com/albums/v285/looperboy81/2007_0405Image0475.jpg

Bottom ends.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v285/looperboy81/2007_0405Image0476.jpghttp://img.photobucket.com/albums/v285/looperboy81/2007_0405Image0477.jpg

Mounting clip for the 83. The "main" reason why these easily fall off. As you can see in the pic, the mounting clip is only held onto the mudflap w/ 3 pop-rivets. Right picture shows the mounting plate w/ holes for the 84+
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v285/looperboy81/2007_0405Image0478.jpghttp://img.photobucket.com/albums/v285/looperboy81/2007_0405Image0479.jpg

"Inner side" that faces the tire tread.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v285/looperboy81/2007_0405Image0480.jpghttp://img.photobucket.com/albums/v285/looperboy81/2007_0405Image0481.jpg

Drainage holes on the 84+. 83's don't have drainage holes.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v285/looperboy81/2007_0405Image0482.jpg

Inside view of the 84+, showing drainage holes.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v285/looperboy81/2007_0405Image0483.jpg

83 mudflap. No drainage holes here......
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v285/looperboy81/2007_0405Image0484.jpg

Okay... I had forgotten that their was ONE VERY SMALL mounting location on the 83 flaps. And it's a VERY WEAK design at that. This is the one on the left rear & yes, it's broken. Still can be used w/ a bigger mounting screw.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v285/looperboy81/2007_0405Image0485.jpg

Intact mounting hole that is on the right rear mudflap.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v285/looperboy81/2007_0405Image0486.jpg

The following 4 pictures are from the Right Front flap from a 83. I still don't have a Left Front yet. Also don't have a spare 84+ RF mudflap, other than the one on the 85 Redpra which is currently parked @ my place.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v285/looperboy81/2007_0405Image0487.jpg

Mounting plate. Notice the locations for TWO MOUNTING SCREWS!! The main reason why the front mudflaps don't fall off. Picture only shows 1 of the mounting screws, the other one is missing.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v285/looperboy81/2007_0405Image0488.jpg

Inside of the flap.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v285/looperboy81/2007_0405Image0489.jpg

Side facing the tire tread.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v285/looperboy81/2007_0405Image0490.jpg

Hope this answers A WHOLE BUNCHA QUESTIONS, especially for those of you who "assumed" that these flaps are the same.

[85_6mge]

Very well done Chris!. Pupils, when the Professor speaks listen up!

This outa be a sticky...

[CJSREDPRA]

Hrmmm.....

It would not show the pictures side by side @ work, where I'm on a FireFox machine + a T1 line, but they show up here on my GF's PC on Internet Exploder on Dial-Up. Go figure.....

Looks like I will be doing some editing....

Glad you like the pictures Greg!! Thanks!!

(Edit): 20 minutes of editing later, I now have a few select pictures side by side.

(Edit 2): If I get enough interest, MAYBE I'll get some pictures of L-Type & MKI mudflaps. Don't have any spares of these at the moment. ALSO... of all things, MKIV's had optional mudflaps (VERY SMALL ones at that) that were available as accessory add-on's. Has seen them in person & they are also in the small Toyota Accessories Brochures for the MKIV's.

[CELICA XX]

I think the mud flaps on my 82-L have small Celica Dragons on them...

I will check when I get home.

[SilverMk2]

I think the mud flaps on my 82-L have small Celica Dragons on them...

I will check when I get home.

They do.

I'm going to move this over to the FAQ section as well

[BBSupramk2]

I wish my mudflaps had dragons on them. O yea I have an 82 and a 83 and they both have mudflaps.

[CJSREDPRA]

They do.

I'm going to move this over to the FAQ section as well

:iocrunks2: WHOA!! :D

Thanks Aaron. Didn't think this was FAQ worthy. Sticky worthy, yes.

[CJSREDPRA]

I think the mud flaps on my 82-L have small Celica Dragons on them...

I will check when I get home.

Rear mudflaps should, yes.

Front ones I believe are blank.

I know the Celica Dragon is on the front flaps for the 80 - 81 MKI's. The words "CELICA" are on the rear ones.

[turbogoo1]

I know the Celica Dragon is on the front flaps for the 80 - 81 MKI's. The words "CELICA" are on the rear ones.

Cool...mine are still original then!

Lol...always a learning experience on here.

[Chrisfrom1986]

Supradrifter21's 83 has factory mudflaps on it. It has a build year of 1982, although I dont remember the month. This was the first time I had ever seen a full set of factory mounted mudflaps on a Supra.

[SupraDrifter21]

my car has a year identity crisis :D lol , it was october 1982.

[Chrisfrom1986]

Yeah, its a 1983 car. Cars built the year before are always sold as the next years model.

[kdsii]

Most manufacturer's change model year in the early fall (around Sept/Oct - but it can vary some - someone in the know out there, please correct my dates if they are wrong). Any vehicles delivered after that point are typically sold as the following model year - so your Oct 82 would be an '83 model year car. '83s would also have been build up until mid/late '83. It's more of a marketing thing - they come out with new designs in the fall, and to make them sound new they market them as the next year's model. It's a big deal to change production lines & parts manufacturing and so on, so major changes are typically done once a year.

[CJSREDPRA]

Most manufacturer's change model year in the early fall (around Sept/Oct - but it can vary some - someone in the know out there, please correct my dates if they are wrong).

With Toyota's (at least with all of our Supras), it's been well documented that the previous model year begins to cease production sometime in very late July to beginning - mid August. By the end of August, they are already into the next model year.

In the past we have had some pretty extreme cases of "last cars at the end of the production year". For those of you who "really really" remember the Yahoo list, and recall Justin (aka: "Gumby") in TX, who had a White 83 P-Type that had a August 83 build date. The 10th digit in his VIN ALSO indicated it was a 83 car & not a 84.

Another "interesting" example is the 86 MKII"s. So far from what we've come up with, they were built in August 85 - November 85. We've YET to find one that was built in December 85. January 86 is when the 86.5 MKIII's started being built & February 86 is when they finally hit the dealers.

[Fastspoolsupra]

I too have a indentificaion problem. My car was manufactured in May 1982, as stated in the inside-door tag. Although on the tite, and vin says its an 83. And resembles nothing of an 82.. Not much apart from both of them though. Oh and my mudflaps fell off somewhere between the 265xxx miles on my car.. Figures

[discoelk]

Almost every car is manufactured the year before it is sold. Much how the new year models are released in the spring(I think) of the year before. For reference, my 85 has a build date in 84.

Regards,

David

[Tanya]

I too have a indentificaion problem. My car was manufactured in May 1982, as stated in the inside-door tag. Although on the tite, and vin says its an 83. And resembles nothing of an 82.. Not much apart from both of them though. Oh and my mudflaps fell off somewhere between the 265xxx miles on my car.. Figures

That's pretty odd. May is too early for it to be classified as "next years model". My white Supra is a MAY 83 production date, and is registered and tagged as a 1983.

I have noticed discrepancies in the years starting in July. My brother in laws 1983 P-type had a JULY 83 production date, and had some 1984 items such as a 130mph speedometer and vinyl center console (not 83 hard plastic). Car appeared to be pretty original, but who knows with these cars anymore.

[CJSREDPRA]

I too have a indentificaion problem. My car was manufactured in May 1982, as stated in the inside-door tag. Although on the tite, and vin says its an 83. And resembles nothing of an 82.. Not much apart from both of them though. Oh and my mudflaps fell off somewhere between the 265xxx miles on my car.. Figures

Kept forgetting to reply to this....

I'm willing to bet that your door has been replaced sometime in the past. Hopefully I'm not wrong.

Look at the build plate on the door, I "believe" it should also have the VIN# on it, just above the build date. Take a look at it, see if it matches the one on your dash & the firewall dataplate.

[CJSREDPRA]

So I made a visit to the junkyard on Weds (PAP up in Lynnwood, for the Seattle locals).

Found the 83 L-Type up there. Good excuse to take the right side mudflaps that were still on the car.

Right front. Plain & blank on the backside.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v285/looperboy81/2007_0503Image0538.jpg

Front side.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v285/looperboy81/2007_0503Image0539.jpg

Inside.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v285/looperboy81/2007_0503Image0540.jpg

Right rear. Looks just as plain & blank.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v285/looperboy81/2007_0503Image0541.jpg

Front side.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v285/looperboy81/2007_0503Image0542.jpg

Inside. Neither of the mudflaps have drain holes, thus the reinforcement metal inside is rusting.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v285/looperboy81/2007_0503Image0543.jpg

Celica Dragon Logo on the bottom.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v285/looperboy81/2007_0503Image0544.jpg

As mentioned earlier, these were standard items on the MKII L-Type's, they were dealer options/add on's, for the RA Celica's.

Still working on finding the MKI mudflaps from 80 & 81.

[CJSREDPRA]

Hehehe... 2 months later, I finally get this done.

MKI mudflaps.

As most of the MKI geeks know (or may not know), the mudflaps in the below pictures only came on the 80 MA46 & the 81 MA47 (at least in North America). Mudflaps did not come standard on any of the 79 MA46. There was a dealer accessory mudflap that I have seen on a few RA Celicas, but I am still looking for some good examples.

These are the "standard" Black rubber mudflaps that are on my 81 Silver Slug:

Front:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v285/looperboy81/2007_0711Image0656.jpg

Rear:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v285/looperboy81/2007_0711Image0657.jpg

Thanks to Patrick Denger for sending these specimens from a Code 033 81 that he found in a junkyard up in Maine. On BOTH the 80 MA46 & the 81 MA47, the White cars had these mudflaps that were partially painted the body color.

Front mudflap:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v285/looperboy81/2007_0711Image0660.jpg

Backside facing tire:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v285/looperboy81/2007_0711Image0658.jpg

Inside: Only place for water to drain, is towards the inside of the car (in this case it's towards your right & the side, underneath the metal mounting/reinforcement plate).
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v285/looperboy81/2007_0711Image0659.jpg

Unlike the MKII L-Type rear mudflaps, the MKI front mudflaps have the Celica Dragon symbol on the bottom middle.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v285/looperboy81/2007_0711Image0661.jpg

Back mudflap:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v285/looperboy81/2007_0711Image0662.jpg

Backside facing tire:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v285/looperboy81/2007_0711Image0664.jpg

Inside (this picture is actually of the Right Rear, since the inside of the left rear was not looking too great):
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v285/looperboy81/2007_0711Image0663.jpg

The only "other" MKI's that I have seen (in person) that have a similiar paint scheme, are the Code 474 Copper Metallic (Brown) cars from both 80 & 81. Instead of the White section, it would be Copper Metallic. My own 80 Brownpra had this & I've seen at least 5 other MKI's that were like this as well.

In the 80 US Spec MKI Brochure, there are several pages shown of the Code 861 Light Blue Metallic that also has the Blue color keyed mudflaps on them. The 80 brochure so far, is the only place I have seen these, other 80 Code 861's all have had the standard Black mudflaps. In 81 when they switched to Code 888 Light Blue Metallic (which is more of a true light blue, versus the "brighter" blue in 79 & 80) they definitely had the "standard" Black mudflaps.

For every other color that was available in 80 & 81 (including all of the 2-Tone's), I've only seen the standard Black mudflaps as well. For some reason, only the Code 033 White & the Code 474 Copper Metallic colors seem to have these "special" color keyed flaps.

To my knowledge, the "standard" Black flaps only came on the MA Supras, I have YET to see them on any of the RA Celicas (EXCEPT for the 81 Celica GTA Coupe) as a factory or dealer installed item. Unless a later owner added them on.

[DRE85PTYPE]

i have a set of mud flaps from a SDR 85 ptype in original condition.... i think the car looks cleaner with them off personally? so i took them off and the innner wheel well guard things... i found sooo much crap in there... leaves bugs, twigs, rocks..... ewwwwwwww