Special Announcement - New and Old Read!

[MWebber]

This is an excerpt of a PM I just sent and feel it should apply to all. Discussion is welcome but keep in mind, there will be NO flaming, threatening etc. You have been warned.

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The thing I've noticed most lately about a lot of these kids that have been coming here lately acting like gang bangers, talking like them, etc, is that they have this huge chip on thier shoulder about being disrespected. The problem comes in, where all the 'old timers' have had to put in YEARS of work and put up with years of the older generation before them 'disrespecting' them. Kids these days expect these things to be handed to them without earning the respect of the older generation and thier peers. I agree it's not very fair, but I had to go though it, my dad had to go through it, etc... it's just the way the world works.

...

Yes, you should get a fair and accurate response when you ask a question. You should also use the search button before asking any question. This does several things. First, it keeps the amount of shit you catch to a minimum. Second, it doesn't clutter up the forum with the same question asked 200 times and finally, if the search works out, you get the info you need immediately.

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Another thing that's been eating at me is the responces anyone gets when a question has already been asked. I am SO tired of seeing things like 'search', 'asked and answered' without pointing to the info and last but CERTAINLY not least that damned "welcome to cs.com, use the search" icon...

here's a novel thought, Don't post at all unless you intend on actually answering the question without pegging the a-hole meter.

Thoughts? Discussion?


Mike

[RaptorRacing]

Who are you...do we know you? ;)

Going to bed just wanted to add: as my mama always tells me: "if you don't have something nice to say then don't say it"

People with attitude suck; but if you know they suck then why do you fuel the fire...freaking out at someone asking a 'searchable' question only encourages them to respond in a negative way. Somewhere; someone must stop the negativity...and yes not doing anything can stop it...clicking the back or ignore button is only only one click you know.

I really have a lot more to say but there's no point...I'm just going to get the 404 error message and get all pissed off.

[zack_odom]

Lol...404 Eroore,...
I think you are right.....I am only 21 and I get disrespected be people much older than me but that is what is SUPPOSED to happen!!!!That is really the way it works......

[cweckel2000]

I wouldn't say getting disrespected by elders should happen, its a matter of respecting everyone, whether 15 or 75, for their talents and hard work. I have a lot of respect for anyone that knows their way under the hood of a car because, well, I don't know jackshit about cars. On the other hand, I'm only 19 and I have the respect of 50 year olds because I know how to build, fix, and maintain computers and networks and I am going to school for engineering.

One idea is to include your situation when you post. For instance, instead of posting "whats the speaker size in my supra," say that you are an audio noob, would like to know about upgrading the speakers and want some opinions on some good setups.

Just my 2 cents.

[Junkie]

Fine,I'll go back to my http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u27/1983supraL/Emoticons/nickos1.gif

Bye now :D

[zack_odom]

wait....are you sayin you are goin back to a mental prison?
or just a physical cage?

[supra83mkii]

You know I have seen stuff like that in the forums, but I think some of the young guys should at least try and search.

Hell I know I did a search on why theres gunk underneath the clutch pedal, and found out that our cars master cylinder tends to leak. I also did a search on how to mod the fog light and found wes's website. And I have done other searches for other questions I've had.

And I know it would've of been alot easier just to put a new thread on each of the question I've had. But using my common sense and knowing that ours cars are 20+ years old most of the question out there have been already answered.

I also seen guys that ten to overreact, and they post lets meet in person so we can settle this.

I know I'm only 23 and I'm one of those guys that don't take shit from people, but I'm not going to start some bullshit here on the forums just because someone tells me to use the search button, or flames me or for whatever reason, and if I do post back it would be reasonable. And for the most part everybody that I've talked to has always been really cool with me even if I ask stupid questions.

Most of the guys here in the forum are here because they love our MKII supras and they want to share there knowledge with us. Man if this forum wasn't here I know my car wouldn't be in the shape it is now and I know I wouldn't have my 6m in there my RC intake, etc

Sorry for the long post!!

:iocrunks2:

[heavyd]

i agree, but just because im young, doesnt mean i dont deserve the respect that someone older than me does. it also kind of makes me mad that people think that im young, so i dont know anything. its kinda bs, but i do understand.

[1suprafan]

I do see some questions that depending on how you word it you might not find it I think that it is alright to ask those questions to get help on the other hand it amazes me how you will get a new person who will ask what wheels fit me car or what size motor can I put in my car. That kind of stuff is easy to find. In that instant as far as I am concerned that is pure laziness and not wanting to have to work for anything. I think there can be a happy medium.

[84ptype]

Second, it doesn't clutter up the forum with the same question asked 200 times
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Another thing that's been eating at me is the responces anyone gets when a question has already been asked. I am SO tired of seeing things like 'search', 'asked and answered' without pointing to the info and last but CERTAINLY not least that damned "welcome to cs.com, use the search" icon...


these are the most important to ME cause when i wanna search i have to go through like 200 posts of post that the question isnt answered...it just says use search...thats what im doin...if it would have been answered i wouldnt have to ask it cause im tired of searching through so many threads like that...
but thats just me

[Donn29]

Perhaps some of those really useless threads should be deleted. To make searching less time consuming.

[Junkie]

Just so ya all know,I was stone cold sober yesterday/last night,and have NO regrets ... personaly.Actualy,wou;dn't matter if I had been drunk :D

But,now,I'm going to throw a spin on the NOOB,as I see them.

I see several "types" of Noob,and age is not necesarily an issue.We have had in recent past "1 year" several new members,come in acting like they know all.Of those,the one's that figure out they don't,usualy learn quick,and become productive/helpful memebers of our community.Those that still think they know it all,usualy just disappear.

Searching .... I have watched more new members than most can probably pay attention to.95% of the time,anyone who is paying attention,can tell,by the wording of the question,if they have even tried.Personaly,I think the membership is pretty tolerant,and most of us will at peast partialy answer,and/or supply a link.

As a whole,I personaly think this place gets along rather well.I ciuld probably write a novel,if I wanted to really lay out,just what I notice.

1. --- Guy who uses search,asks specific question when answer isn't found = car that runs,project contines.
2.--- Guy uses search,can't find it,PM's a "senior" member,gets an answer,or a referral to the guy(s) that can help,car gets fixed,project moves along.
3.--- Guy doesn't use search,asks question,not much help offered,for whatever reason,or help doesn't come "fast" enough,instant attitude-we return the favor.
4.---Guy doesn't even freaking look,asks a question,we have 5 damn threads on the same subject,on the same page,of 1 section "3-4 on overheating issues,in several days,within the last couple weeks".

You tell me ..... Who are you going to continue to help,and who your going to have "fun" with.

I don't see a real age issue,except for a few young ---- Plain Punks,Wanna be Gangsta's,that refuse to accept the fact they don't know it all.Those guys,like FSS,will get lit up like neon'd Honda.If that's unacceptableThen please,and I truely mean it ..... Ban Me

[sarinas_dragons]

If young people deserve respect, they should act respectable. If respect is wanted, yet not yet earned, respecting those from whom attention is needed is necessary. Receptivity is key. If youth isn't receptive it sends a message, loud and clear.

[pdupler]

I'm probably one of the more tolerant on the forum, but I ignore an awful lot too. The only thing that really upsets me is when attitude is combined with a complete disregard for the mk2. I have seen it alot where people get on here and all they want to do is make it go faster and by their language you can tell they don't give a shit whether its a mk2 or a chevy cavalier. You know that by not answering, the owner is going to eventually give up on the project and another mk2 is going to the scrapyard. On the other hand, by answering, you know you are gonna get your head bit off when the punk reads that its gonna cost more money than he's likely to make in his lifetime, and after the tyrade, still, another mk2 is going to the scrapyard. We're damned if we do and damned if we don't, so if arguing with assholes floats your boat, go ahead and entertain yourself. If you'd rather add to your ignore list, thats fine too. I doubt very seriously that we're losing anybody we really want to be here over it. Those who first and foremost, truely love the mk2 for what it is and was as it came out of the factory will want to stay here and will eventually figure out how to fit in. Those who don't will leave eventually anyway regardless we roll out the red carpet for them and rub their genitals on every visit. The only change I would suggest is that when someone asks a legitimate, albeit repeat question, that folks don't immediately go nuclear on them - wait until they show their colors before launching a counter attack. Like Shawn said, in general, we get along pretty good together as long as were talking about mk2s.

[sksupra]

Who are you...do we know you? ;)

Going to bed just wanted to add: as my mama always tells me: "if you don't have something nice to say then don't say it"

People with attitude suck; but if you know they suck then why do you fuel the fire...freaking out at someone asking a 'searchable' question only encourages them to respond in a negative way. Somewhere; someone must stop the negativity...and yes not doing anything can stop it...clicking the back or ignore button is only only one click you know.

I really have a lot more to say but there's no point...I'm just going to get the 404 error message and get all pissed off.

First Class guy with a First Class response. I don't post much anymore, I have way too much to learn but if everyone could take a lesson from George this great place would be even better.

[pituala]

I think I may be considered and old timer at a numerically HIGH age of 34....lol. I can say one thing about respect. Age does not give an automatic respect pass. An 80 year old rapist will not have any of my respect. Respect is given for getting respect. As an older person, I sometimes expect respect from new people, but they may not know me from a hole in the wall, so by giving respect, I get respect. When someone disrespects me without cause, then they get no respect from me.

I also get irritated by the search nazis. When I first started using vbforums I could never get the search to find what I needed, and slowly it worked a little better for me. It still doesn't work everytime for me. If someone asks a question that's been asked a million times, I still answer them. That is the purpose of being a knowledgable person on a forum is, isn't it, or is it to tell people to search? Because I know that knowledge is best when used, not stored.

And lastly.....People seem to grow huge balls when they're on the intraweb and accross the country from you. I would love to see how ballzy these people are when you're face to face with them.

[kdsii]

Well, I guess I'm going to throw my 2 cents worth in. I'm a noob on this board, but have had a 25 year love affair with the Supra. Bought my first one in high school (all the way back in '82 - have owned it for 25 years - I guess I am officially an old fart now!). I still own that car - it's a little worse for the wear, but I'm now restoring her (hence my presence here).

OK - back on topic - I've seen two kinds of people on here - Pretty much the same comments that pdupler makes - Those that "love the car for what it was and is" and those that want speed and haven't fallen in love with it (yet). I started in the second group (performance) but quickly moved to the first (love). I suspect most of the people that are here to stay are those that love the car - and most probably bought one initially because of the performance or the lines.

Love is an emotional thing - I am quick to take offence and anyone that slight's my "love". So, do I flame someone who hasn't fallen in love with them yet (even if he slams my Mki - even if he doesn't realize that's its the great-grandad of the TT Mkiv - hey, my grandad wasn't as fast as me either!), or do I give him a chance to grow to love these cars too?

I bought my first Supra when I was in high school - I can't say I had the level of maturity then that I have now. And I had to earn respect the old-fashioned way - by proving myself, but that doesn't mean I liked, or always enjoyed, the process.

As I look at member profiles, I see people from the entire spectrum of humanity around the world (wow - that sounds hi-falutin!) - but we share a common love - the Supra. But like any good family, we fight sometimes too. From what I have seen in my short time here, this is a decent family!!

[wjanusz]

I'll echo a few others

Respect is EARNED!!! Everyone starts out with me with a certain amount of respect as a human being. Then they either earn more or lose it through their own actions.

I will say that I definitely tell people to search but I try to give them an answer along with that. Usually I like to say "If you searched for ___ and ___ you would have gotten this" and then list them. This way I'm demonstrating that search DOES work. Plus it's a wise ass way of showing how easy searching is. I find that a lot of people in general can't figure out how to search here or even google!!!

I will also say that some of the "worst" threads are the most entertaining.. Kind of like having to look at a car wreck when you pass by!

In general most people here get along... The rest learn or wind up leaving...

[Junkie]

Guy's,after thinking about it a bit more .........

I'm going back to what I have been doing off and on all winter ........leave of absence,but,this one will be a bit longer.

Enjoy the Noobs,I'll lurk in the background,stay in the shop more,drive my car more ...... smile more :D

[Supradad]

Shawn is one of the more outspoken but more entertaining of the members I've run across. He might even have me on his ignore list now. For comments I apoligized to everyone for. But I hope to meet him someday, for a good time. There are others who just can't seem to hold back the smartass comments when saying nothing would be better. That gets old fast.
My thought was about the guys who ask for help finding parts to fix their cars. It has been done repeatly to me and I'm sure that not everytime it's done on purpose. What I'm referring to is those who ask for a list of parts to be found, priced and then priced to cover shipping to where they are. This is all well and good but it's when they say to get it ready, that they want it, but they need to wait until the grant money check gets to them next month. Or they were just curious on how much it would cost and they had no intention of buying anything, that burns my ass. They don't seem to know that it all takes up time from somebodies life to do this stuff. It's got me to a point of not offering help until they show that they are serious in their need. I know that if I offer, I have to back it up. I just wish it would work both ways.
And Shawn, if you can read me, don't hide too far in the back. I enjoy reading from your experiences and I even like the fun you poke at the guys you know as friends. Someday we might even get to know each other that well too.
Curtis

[Supra Bob]

Well, I know I tend to come and go quite often around here, but since this something near and dear to my heart at the moment, I will voice my opinions here, and hopefully the people who need to read this, will.

Respect is probably one of the most important things a person seeks from his or her peers. I don't think I don't know a peson who DOESN'T want to be respected for one reason or another. I think the reason that this is such a problem of late is basically for two reasons.

1) If you look at the last part of the first sentence in the paragraph just above, "his or her peers". That word is one of the most important part of the sentence. "Peer: a person who is of equal standing with another in a group " as defined by Dictionary.com. Pretty simple definition...

It seems alot of the younger generation who have never actually stood with a bunch of "old guys" as a pre/teen/early twenty something around a toolbox on a Saturday afternoon, and the only place they have this kinda talk is online. In standing with the "old guys" at the actual toolbox, you never really felt like one of their peers (maybe one of the guys, but never their equal, and when you did, it was a very important day to you), simply because they were older than you, and you accepted that and shut your mouth and listened. There was that respect for your "elders", and in turn, they taught you and everyone was happy.

Now, remove that toolbox, and remove the faces, and instead, make all the communications faceless... Nothing more than typed words on a page. I can't tell if the person I am talking to is 15 or 115. Instantly, the barrier that seperated us before and established the pecking order face to face is gone. This hobby does not really lend itself to be attractive to those who want to be in second place, so instantly, every new dog that comes to the block wants to try and be the alpha.... and until they find their place in the faceless world of the internet, conflicts occur...

2) The second reason I am going to state, is a generalization. And Generally speaking, there are always those that fall outside the generalization and is not meant as accusing anyone. The younger generation, for whatever reason, fails to realize that RESPECT IS EARNED AND IS A PRIVILEDGE. IT IS NOT A RIGHT AND CANNOT BE DEMANDED. IT MUST BE GIVEN FREELY, OF SOMEONE'S WILL. Let me say that again, since its one of things that I really feel bares repeating and is sorely missed:

RESPECT IS EARNED AND IS A PRIVILEDGE. IT IS NOT A RIGHT AND CANNOT BE DEMANDED. IT MUST BE GIVEN FREELY, OF SOMEONE'S WILL.

The new guys that come around on forums should keep this in mind. Coming in like you own the place, giving attitude and telling guys who have been building Supra's and Toyotas for more years than half the members here have been alive is just dumb. Your only going to make enemies and isolate yourself from some great sources of info.

That being said, the older guys (myself included) could also use some patience as well. Remember that this new person may not understand Forum Ettiquet. They may not know there is a search feature, or perhaps they are new to automotive mechanics altogether and are unsure if the answer they found applies to them as well. hell, they may have enver even had a proper positive male role model.. who knows. All I am sayin is that maybe, as a whole, we shouldn't crucify for a first offense of being an asshat. Continue to be a dip-shizer and your open season however.

I dunno.. maybe I just spewed out some long winded psycho-babble bullshit... but at least think about it.

and as for Shawn specifically... I think his short fuse is part of what makes Shawn, Shawn. If people can manage to open their ears to what he says, and ignore the usually deserved tounge-lashing, the man is a god damn genius with cars and VERY generous with his time. I've had the pleasure of a meal with the man once, and I really hope it happens again. Shawn is the kinda guy who I learned from, standing around the toolkbox in my early years, been there done that and wants you to do better... and thats experience you can't buy.

[sarinas_dragons]

hahahaha.......old guys getting pissed off.................

[Muchbzy]

Okay, as one of the older members here (40+) I'll add my opinion. I've been here since the yahoo days. Didn't post much then because I was a noob and didn't understand exactly how it worked. Came here and then with the wealth of knowledge here added my two cents and have been on here ever since. I actually told Malloy and Greg a while ago that I wasn't really on the forum that much anymore because it seemed like we were straying from what I really like about this place. Family. When we are together it's really like being at a reunion and I like that. Are we a club no but we are more than that to me. Yes, the price point of our cars has come down to the "someone gave me a Supra and I want it for drifting, 10 seconds in the quarter, some massive V8 swap, and etc." so we have a different age group and new blood in the community. I've seen some young guys come in here and be just as helpful as anyone else and I've seen old noobs that just as bad as anyone. If you don't like what you see hit "back" like George said, move on or like Bob said, do the respect thing. Leaving this group to me is not an option. I like it here. I belong to other forums and everyday I think of leaving them but never this one.

[RedP85]

I'm with Bob post above (Supra Bob) 100%

And since we may not hear from him too much in the future (new Stang love affair...)
I would say that his post is a very good legacy from him.

[Malloy]

Word.


When we are together it's really like being at a reunion and I like that. Are we a club no but we are more than that to me.

[badboysupra]

well, in my opinion. one main reason that I rarely talk or post up over here is that there are also some of the "old timers" or so called "guru" tend to be an ass to the newbies.

I, myself aint that of an "old timer" nor a "guru"... not even a "newbie".
Ive actually been around MKII's and Celicasupra.com back in 1999 (yes those were the "yahoo" days), Russ Matusevich was still tearin down the 1320 on his 5MGTE and the forums wasnt all that pretty.

anywayz, like me.. 5 MKII's later and 2 MKIII's (one N/A and one Turbo) I still get the same situation on the other on here and on the other side (SM.com). but except from SF.com (which I feel more at home).

but what I can say is that it doesnt take 3,000 or more posts for anyone to gain respect from anybody. heck, you dont even have to be a so called "guru". sure there is the need to use the "search" button. but not everone out here is perfect. there are newbies that still need some GUIDANCE and ATTENTION that sure is still tolerable.

I noticed that some of us here started to be a dick to newbies like 2-4 yrs. ago.

some guys out here needs to be a little more nice to the newbies. thats why some people get discourage jus because someone gets mad when someone doesnt use the "search" button.


aite, peace.

PS: I aint got no MKII anymore and I just got me another MKIII turbo. but I dont care. I still support this forum and I will come back with another MKII.


be good now boys.

[zack_odom]

Just so ya all know,I was stone cold sober yesterday/last night,and have NO regrets ... personaly.Actualy,wou;dn't matter if I had been drunk :D

But,now,I'm going to throw a spin on the NOOB,as I see them.

I see several "types" of Noob,and age is not necesarily an issue.We have had in recent past "1 year" several new members,come in acting like they know all.Of those,the one's that figure out they don't,usualy learn quick,and become productive/helpful memebers of our community.Those that still think they know it all,usualy just disappear.

Searching .... I have watched more new members than most can probably pay attention to.95% of the time,anyone who is paying attention,can tell,by the wording of the question,if they have even tried.Personaly,I think the membership is pretty tolerant,and most of us will at peast partialy answer,and/or supply a link.

As a whole,I personaly think this place gets along rather well.I ciuld probably write a novel,if I wanted to really lay out,just what I notice.

1. --- Guy who uses search,asks specific question when answer isn't found = car that runs,project contines.
2.--- Guy uses search,can't find it,PM's a "senior" member,gets an answer,or a referral to the guy(s) that can help,car gets fixed,project moves along.
3.--- Guy doesn't use search,asks question,not much help offered,for whatever reason,or help doesn't come "fast" enough,instant attitude-we return the favor.
4.---Guy doesn't even freaking look,asks a question,we have 5 damn threads on the same subject,on the same page,of 1 section "3-4 on overheating issues,in several days,within the last couple weeks".

You tell me ..... Who are you going to continue to help,and who your going to have "fun" with.

I don't see a real age issue,except for a few young ---- Plain Punks,Wanna be Gangsta's,that refuse to accept the fact they don't know it all.Those guys,like FSS,will get lit up like neon'd Honda.If that's unacceptableThen please,and I truely mean it ..... Ban Me

+1 to every single thing junkie says...I am with him 100% I was thinking just that...

[Supra Bob]

I'm with Bob post above (Supra Bob) 100%

And since we may not hear from him too much in the future (new Stang love affair...)
I would say that his post is a very good legacy from him.

Nah... I ain't going no where. Truthfully, I never do. I just tend to lurk now, and only speak when I have something to say.

Besides, since Malloy is driving a soccer-mom machine still, SOMEONE hasta be the "evil empire" for everyone to beat up on ;)

[Supra Mario Brother]

I totally agree with the idea that we are a family. I've bought into that from day one. I don't always log in when I come to the forum, because I know that I'm not always going to have something to post. This is simply because 99% of my questions can be answered by searching, and 99% of people's questions that I know the answer to have been taken care of already. If you look at my join date and compare it to my posts, you'll get an idea of what I feel the average person on here should be posting. Not to say that you guys with a million posts are useless, because in reality you're the most helpful, knowledgable, and the guys that I seem to learn the most from. As a family, I know that if I'm stranded by my car anywhere in the U.S. or Canada, that if I can find a computer with the internet that it won't take long for someone to help me, or loan me a part, or give me a part, or in some way take care of me. I know that if anyone was stranded near me, in the vastness of flat cornfields, that I'd be glad to take care of them with whatever they needed. As a small group of car owners who have little aftermarket support, and who's only aftermarket support comes from a few outstanding members who make it happen (many thanks to you guys) we've got the keep this forum as useful as possible. I cannot imagine how many members have come here with little to no knowledge about this specific car, learned everything they could, and then later came up with ideas, or built a product, or contributed something that nobody else here would have done on their own. That's how this works - or at least is supposed to. Everytime someone uses our knowledge to make a N/A engine better, or straps some new-fangled turbo or ECU part on their car, we all learn from it. I'd feel much better about myself in the end knowing i tried to help someone who could have made their car better (and ultimately said "here's how you do it to your car) and failed, then told someone with a new idea that it won't work. I know this has its limits, and we can't embrace every douche bag who wants to JB Weld a four cylinder VTec head onto an inline 6 cylinder toyota engine...but if they do, and it works...i'd love to see it. I guess that's just my $.02 and hate to clutter up to forum with any more garbage...but I don't talk much, so I feel I'm entitled.

[Phil G.]

Perhaps some of those really useless threads should be deleted. To make searching less time consuming.

I agree....but this thread should be deleted.

Don't know why everyone's panties are in a bunch. Just ignore like I do.

[kjurkic]

My $0.02....

Knowledge, maturity, and skill are not proportional to age.

Someone who is an idiot at 20, is likely to still be an idiot at 40

One of the BEST mechanics I have ever met just turned 22

There will ALWAYS be noobs.

I always start with a modicum of respect for strangers. Whether it goes up or down depends on how they behave.

I owe so much to the old-timers (since I started back in the yahoo days, does that now include me?) that I can never truly calculate the dollar value, or return in kind. I pay-it-forward when the opportunity arises, hoping to keep another newbie happy with their Supra.

Regards all
Ken

[Fastspoolsupra]

Well, after reading all of these posts in this entire thread, I realized what I was doing wrong. And I am going to try to better myself in the Supra community, and in the car community at that. Sorry guys and gals for acting like a fool. I am ashamed of myself (seriously). I know it still may be hard to accept my will to ask and learn after what I have done in the past.

Like I said, I'm sorry for acting the way I did and will use the search and respect everyone. Love you guys, CS = home. I look up to you guys an awful lot.

[Mone]

FSS, the first steps to earning respect is what you've just done. But do take heed to what these guys have said: Respect is a priveledge, not a right. We all had to follow the same path, just some of us have had to apologize more often than others (I've done my fair share even in only 500 posts, and I don't think it'll be the end).

I don't know who you are FSS, and I probably will never meet you or anything. But like most people on here, if you give even the smallest reason for me to try to defend you, I will, but only if you can come to your senses.

You're 15, but as someone mentioned earlier, on here we really can't say whether someone's 15 or 115. So I think most would agree with me that none of us want to be able to tell who's 15 by the kind of posts they make.

Good luck, and post smart.

[CJSREDPRA]

FSS,

Hopefully this is a good "renewed" beginning for you. Your last several postings seem quite sincere & mature. "For now" they are good enough for me, that you've been removed from my ignore list. Not very often that I do that to various members.

Good Luck & Post Wisely as well.

[Fastspoolsupra]

Thank you guys very much, I haven't had a need to post in the past couple of days, becuase I used the search button. I realized how dumb I was for not using it in the first place. Got random needed info within searching 3 minutes tops. I hope I can stay on everyone's good side.

Thanks guys,
Matt

[turbo4ag]

1. --- Guy who uses search,asks specific question when answer isn't found = car that runs,project contines.
2.--- Guy uses search,can't find it,PM's a "senior" member,gets an answer,or a referral to the guy(s) that can help,car gets fixed,project moves along.
3.--- Guy doesn't use search,asks question,not much help offered,for whatever reason,or help doesn't come "fast" enough,instant attitude-we return the favor.
4.---Guy doesn't even freaking look,asks a question,we have 5 damn threads on the same subject,on the same page,of 1 section "3-4 on overheating issues,in several days,within the last couple weeks".


I think you might have this theory all wrong. Let me explain an example of why...

I am a new member and I asked a question about the wrist pin size of the 7MGE piston in one of your forums, also that was my first post on this site.

Someone looking at my post might think, "Oh this NOOB is on his first post and he asked that question without even searching". When in actuality, I know alot about cars. I probably know more about my 4AGE powered AE86 than you do about your 7MGE. I also searched this website as well as 3 other forums, along with numerous sites thru Yahoo search engine. I actually found SOME info, but not the specific of what I needed. I'm really just asking the question to make sure the info I think I have is correct. The fact of the matter is, most people dont even know the size of it, they just know "oh, well its the same size as a 5M/6M piston pin"

A person like me, who knows all the ins and outs of all the 4A/5A/7A engine series along with all the measurements of journals, pins, compression height, etc.... kinda gets a little pissed when you guys dont know the answer on your OWN engine and CLAIM to be experts. And then on top of that to get a bad answer from a jerk is just uncalled for.

Now you as a SANE logical member should really ONLY have two options:
1) Answer the question
2) Don't answer the question

For anyone to just pass judgement and give a dipshit answer without know the background, you obviously have psychological issues, and shouldn't be posting on this or any message board unless its a self-help site.

[turbo4ag]

Oh one more thing... Im only 23 BTW

[BillyM]

*claps*

Over yourself yet? ...let us know when you're done.

You're looking for measurements to something we don't ever have to measure. Go to a "we like to swap parts around motors like the drunk slut at a party" forum and you can soak your face in tons of data that most people will never need, especially here. Until then, try and pull a better attitude out of that ass of yours and you might have someone willing to go out of their way to take some measurements for you.

Until then, I'll just be hanging down at the shop, 3' away from a stack of 7m parts turning wrenches with my 22yr old hands on my only-slightly-fast 7m'd mk2, which will probably put up a good fight (slay?) against any of the corollas rolling around on the roads.

It's all in the attitude.

--billyM

[Junkie]

Turbo4ag --- Don't let your alligator mouth,overrun your rabbitt ass.I answered your question,now go change your diaper.

[turbo4ag]

I dont think you guys want to see the video. But there's a gray 1JZ Supra on 22psi and cams that told me "Are you serious?" before racing that got his ass handed to him in "bus length" style....

But you guys are the greatest. :zzzzz:

I love this site!!!!! I'm not here to talk shit all day & BS. I post to get info, or share the info I have. And I might have made it personal in my response because even though Im new to this site, I've seen the same type of thing go on at alot of web forums.

It IS all about the attitude. And I personally have never seen somebody ask a question in a tone similar of:

"Hey dipshits, what the fuck is the piston pin size, you dumb asshole?"

Uh-uh... I dont think so. Your probably just aggravated that they dont know something thats so widely known. but everyone is not perfect

[turbo4ag]

Go to a "we like to swap parts around motors like the drunk slut at a party" forum and you can soak your face in tons of data that most people will never need, especially here.

Thats whats called engineering. Tell that to the first guy who swapped an engine. Or stroked a 5m with a 7m crank or whatever engine & whatever customization. Excuse me for trying something new...

[Funkycheeze]

It would have taken a minor amount of searching for an online 7M TSRM, and then looking up the appropriate page to determine the pin diameter - for someone of your claimed knowledge level, a relatively easy task

but what do i know?

[RedP85]

yep, ^^ and about 2 minutes later (only because that section is very long)
http://www.cygnusx1.net/Supra/Library/TSRM/MK3/manual.aspx?Section=EM&Page=80
diameter is there...

[turbo4ag]

This is the example I was trying to make.

A page like that may be common knowledge to YOU. But I did not find that page through any of my searches on Yahoo. And I searched for a good hour or longer, because this is not the first day I tried to look up that info, but this IS the first time I registered on a board just to ask this question.

You have to show patience. I understand when someone gets mad enough that they wont answer a very common "my mom might even know that" type of question. But a question like the one I asked or someone else asking a "somewhat technical" question, no need to FLAME.

And as I said before I found some info... aka... I found aftermarket Supra pistons that had a 22mm pin, but as we all know sometimes they overbore the pins as they do many times on AE86 pistons.

But I asked the question here because I KNEW you guys would have the answer.

[Funkycheeze]

so, someone who claims to have inside-out knowledge of the A series toyota 4 cyl engines is unable to navigate the 7MGTE TSRM well enough to figure out what the piston pin diameter is?

had you asked 'i need a source for an online mk3 TSRM so i can find out the pin diameter' or 'i found this online mk3 tsrm but cannot find the page with the pin diameter' you may have found your question answered in a more timely manner

[SilverMk2]

Guys let it rest, please.

[turbo4ag]

I think we better just let it rest, cause you just dont get it

You're assuming I even know what a TSRM is.... which I dont.... I've never even seen one for the A series engine. Is that a Haynes manual?

Unless its something thats WIDELY, WIDELY known. You shouldn't assume someone is supposed to know it. Especially when it comes to tracking down info on the internet. My dad has been working on cars for over 40 years now, and knows ten times the stuff I know, but I am 1000% sure he wouldn't even know how to register on this site let alone use the search function.

Be patient and every thing will be okay.

[CJSREDPRA]

You're assuming I even know what a TSRM is.... which I dont.... I've never even seen one for the A series engine. Is that a Haynes manual?

This is REALLY SCARY!!!!!!!!

For someone who says they have a VERY LARGE knowledge base of AE86's & the 4AGE motors... You're telling us you don't know what a TSRM is?? See the below link to refresh your memory. This is for a 86.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Toyota-Corolla-FR-1986-Factory-Service-Repair-Manuals_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ34233QQihZ009QQ itemZ190105991054QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWDVW

Notice I posted a auction link for a FR spec manual. Not a FF (FWD) manual.

And DON'T tell us these manuals don't cover anything on the motors. Because they do!!!!!

TSRM: Toyota Service Repair Manual

[9Teen86]

I think we better just let it rest, cause you just dont get it

You're assuming I even know what a TSRM is.... which I dont.... I've never even seen one for the A series engine. Is that a Haynes manual?

Unless its something thats WIDELY, WIDELY known. You shouldn't assume someone is supposed to know it. Especially when it comes to tracking down info on the internet. My dad has been working on cars for over 40 years now, and knows ten times the stuff I know, but I am 1000% sure he wouldn't even know how to register on this site let alone use the search function.

Be patient and every thing will be okay.

From this post, it seems you are searching on the net instead of within the forum. If so, just go to the search button on the top of each page on the forum. I think it is obvious, but if not, that is what they are trying to tell you.

[MWebber]

ok folks... this horse is dead.

I think from the last couple of pages it's clear there's room for everyone to give a little to save the hard feelings, attitudes, and flared emotions.

I do appreciate everyone's candor.

Mike

[turbo4ag]

If someone replied to my question with a link, like "Here is the link to the TSRM, it will have the info you need"

That would also be fine. We all just need more patience. It would also help if this forum had a tech reference section like the Club4AG forum I sometimes visit. Then when someone asks a "stupid" question, just refer them to your own site. Just my :twocents:

[SilverMk2]

We do have it to a degree in the FAQ section here. There is also some info here although its kind of out of date.

http://www.celicasupra.com/faq.htm

Could it be organized better? Yeah. Is anybody volunteering to make a all in nice little FAQ section? Not really.

[Darrow]

Thank you Turbo4ag for making a perfect example of what the 'old timers' see as a problem on this board. I don't know if you did it on purpose or not but you could not have done it any better.

You do ask a question that is easily searched. Perhaps not here since our stock engine is not a 7m and the 7m is only a modification for us. Yes we its a supra, no it does not come stock with a turbo.
So to be pissed because we give you replies that don't quite answer your question is confusing to me. Next time try searching on the correct forum such as supramania or supraforum.

Something that I don't like. and again I will use Turbo4ag because he did such a good job at giving a good example, is when people claim they know everything and actually know very little.
We will start here:

When in actuality, I know alot about cars. I probably know more about my 4AGE powered AE86 than you do about your 7MGE. [some stuff about searching]
A person like me, who knows all the ins and outs of all the 4A/5A/7A engine series along with all the measurements of journals, pins, compression height, etc.... kinda gets a little pissed when you guys dont know the answer on your OWN engine and CLAIM to be experts. [something about a jerk answering his question]
[comments on how people should reply to him]
[criticizes people for giving answers based on their knowledge]
I kept context intact. Here he is saying that he knows everything and calls us all idiots for not knowing about an engine that is in a relatively small number of our cars.
Referring back to what I said earlier, should I call him an idiot for not knowing 7m is not our stock motors?
Then later he says:

I think we better just let it rest, cause you just dont get it

You're assuming I even know what a TSRM is.... which I dont.... I've never even seen one for the A series engine. Is that a Haynes manual?

Unless its something thats WIDELY, WIDELY known. You shouldn't assume someone is supposed to know it. Especially when it comes to tracking down info on the internet. My dad has been working on cars for over 40 years now, and knows ten times the stuff I know, but I am 1000% sure he wouldn't even know how to register on this site let alone use the search function.

Be patient and every thing will be okay.

There are several issues I have with this one. To claim you know so much about engine and not know about TSRMs is kind of strange. Where do you get your information? Haynes?
We do assume someone who claims to know so much about the a series engines should know about the TSRM. Because it is widely widely know to anyone who does much work on Toyota vehicles that the official publication from toyota on how to work on Toyota cars is called the TSRM.

To make personal attacks on the entire populous of MKII 7m owners is not a good thing to do.

[skeen550]

I have asked numerous questions on this board as a "newbie" to the Mk2 world.
I have never had any issues with attitude by anyone on this board but you know what ? I put a LOT of time and effort into a question. I just dont randomly ask something that I havent searched and tried to do myself. Look at my sig and you can see what I have done to my car, it was all new to me (the Toyota stuff) but I figured it out.

I am 36 and have been working on hot rods and cars in general since I was 14. I have rebuilt chevy, ford, pontiac and Toyota engines. I have rebuilt turbo 350 trans and 700r4's and a few manuals as of late. I have rebuilt a few diffs too .. but you know what ? I still dont know it all and never will. For me, working on cars is a way of life in some ways, its not just something I do because I have to, its because I like it and so I try and do all I can.

In the end, it the attitude you use in asking AND answering that can make or break a post. I am all for just simply ignoring ignorant posters, eventually they will learn the proper way to search and get answers on their own. If not then THEY loose out, not me, since they had and probably never will have anything to add to this forum.

[turbo4ag]

:dead hors

Um well the 5M has the same pin size as a 7M right? So it should probably be well known.... I'd like to think.

I dont care though. If I didn't get my answer here I would have just registered on another Supra forum. Who cares anymore.... nuff said. Drop it.

[suprasrock]

...Who cares anymore.... nuff said. Drop it.Yet you keep coming back :zzzzz:

[supkar]

People do seem to ask questions and chat for info and the fun of it. Also, I became aware of the search button belatedly myself. We should be aware of the tendency toward arrogance, antagonistic behavior, superiority complexes and other ego trips that we express with our "internet courage". Most people wouldn't be so brave in person.

[boyblink]

Myself being one of these youngersters I have caught myself asking stupid questions when I look back now and I did get a blast of shit when I asked it but that's how I learned. It may also be because I suck with search engines and can never seem to word a search correctly to get immediate results.

If all else fails you can always manually search through the forum categories to find what you're looking for. It's old fashioned but that's the way it used to be done I guess.

[bracham]

Wow I get back to the forum and this is what I find. Interesting thread.

Let me just say that I totally agree with all those who said that respect is earned. The best, and quite often the only way to get respect, is to give respect.

I'm twenty-two, and personally, I don't recall ever feeling as if anyone older than me (who I associate with at all) didn't respect me. But, I try to give everyone at least some respect, right from the time I meet them. How they handle themselves, and how they act, etcetera, will change the level of respect I have for them. There are a few people I know, who happen to be younger punks, who I have no respect for. This is only because they have made it obvious that they have no respect for anyone else.

On the forum, the search is a handy function. I've hardly ever used it, but when I have needed to figure something out, I have done a search before posting my question. I've found a few answers by searching, and sometimes I've posted with search results to double-check that the solution I found was actually for my problem.

Another thing I feel determines (at least very slightly) the level of respect you get, is the format of your posts. I usually spend a little time typing up a decent post, with proper spelling, grammar, punctuation, and paragraphs. Personally, I find that these posts (with proper spelling, etcetera) are much easier to read.

Anyways, that's my two cents.

[TRD 83 SUPRA XX]

You know I have seen stuff like that in the forums, but I think some of the young guys should at least try and search.
:iocrunks2:

And this coming from someone that asks me questions all the time before doing a search.


Hehe just messing with you man.

[supra83mkii]

And this coming from someone that asks me questions all the time before doing a search.


Hehe just messing with you man.

Hey but I ask you stuff that you have already done, and plus its cuz were cool like that. LOL

[Manamongboys]

but being mean is so fun

[mkIIdude]

see what yall are talking about, and i see it everyday im only 16, i mean i dont look like it, and i get more respect than a everyday 16 year old does, i mean im goin to show a elder respect period. But if they treat me like shit than same goes for them, If you cant say something nice dont say it at all, but thats just my two cents

[88mkiiisupra]

I tend to respect everyone until i am given a reason not to, then I usually ignore whoever gave me the reason not to respect them. My car may be a gen newer than every one elses, but young and old alike there are alot of you out there that have insight and knowledge about the 7mge. I may not aleays search as much as I should, but I always try to give as much info as possible, as to get advice from everyone faster, or have someone point me to the right place to find the answers i am looking for.

attitudes are like opinions and a**holes, everyone has them. how u respond to them is up to u. I generally try to ignore them, unless they are an outright threat, then i deal with them the best i can without adding fuel to the fire.

sorry bout the long post, but this is how i feel on this matter.