Limits with current ignition setup (megasquirt talk)

[cheappower82]

On a spur-o-the-moment decision, i decided to strap down the 6M for another dyno session. Last tune was in cool weather, so wasn't expecting much more than last time.

1st pass was over 400whp and just shy of 400wtq. Thinking back to the last track day, I remember adding some timing in a few bins and upping the boost to about 20psi. The car was happy with that.

We decided to take the boost up more, but was greeted with some nasty breakup after spoolup. Some of it was ignition and fuel table related, but the real culprit seems to be spark blow-out. I'm running Autolite 63's gapped at .025" then .018", so I'll try NGK's next time.

My current ignition is as follows:
trigger by 36-1 crank wheel (william's gb)
msd 6a/accel super coil
distributor mode

I have on hand a DSM v6 wasted spark setup (3 coilpacks and ignitor box). this will replace the distributor, msd, and coil. We're hoping this will smooth out some ignition issues (works well with the Volvo guys).

This is the best I can do until my roommate makes a better scan:
http://www.pbase.com/celicaxx/image/101809461/large.jpg
http://www.pbase.com/celicaxx/image/101780589/large.jpg

The run in red obviously had a nasty hiccup that spiked the torque numbers a bit. regardless, it still had a true 400+ peak, which i'm hoping will put me into 10.xx times. Then I can retire the w58:)

[Junkie]

Ran into spark bow out with Iridiums, went back to Plats and still occasionly burn 1 or 2 electrodes off :( But, only when I get to 20+psi. "Stock 7mgte electronics".

Pulled some initial timing and seemed to solve it. Need to get the AEM installed and tuned " this winter ? "

[cheappower82]

i was going to run vb921's with the 7m-gte coilpack, but the dsm package has been megasquirt friendly (and well documented). 7m guys run more boost and make more power than i need, so i'm going to own it up to wasted spark.

then again, a better plug should help

[sarinas_dragons]

What gas?

[cheappower82]

110/pump mix

i'm encoding video tonight, then i'll put something together.

[sarinas_dragons]

Where are you at for max ignition advance?

[cheappower82]

can't remember' i'll have to dig out the laptop to find out

[85soops]

cheappower.....check pms

[cheappower82]

Where are you at for max ignition advance?

looking at the video capture, megasquirt says 30 degrees. sam (the tuner) says megatune seems to skew that number somewhat; seems to be the same issue on others' cars. he's guessing actual timing is around 15-20 degrees

[SupraDrifter21]

O.O wow.... i cant think of anything more then that, what all has been done to the motor?

[cheappower82]

headgasket and arp's......otherwise stock inside

[turbogoo1]

Thats freakin insane....400+ with stock internals....wow

Now this is going to sound crazy....still streetable?

[sarinas_dragons]

I think stock advances to 28. That would indicate you're in a safe, no-detonation map.

I want to try the DSM coils too.

[cheappower82]

Thats freakin insane....400+ with stock internals....wow

timebomb with few seconds to go


Now this is going to sound crazy....still streetable?

define streetable......clutch engages somewhat hard, but manageable. boost comes on late, but power before spool-up is decent; another reason to stick with n-aspirated compression numbers. my downfall with the car is suspension: car floats around like a buick electra

[Donn29]

another reason to stick with n-aspirated compression numbers.

What do you mean by that?

[cheappower82]

an 8.5:1 turbo build hasn't the low rpm pep that a higher compression (9.2:1+) motor has.

[Donn29]

an 8.5:1 turbo build hasn't the low rpm pep that a higher compression (9.2:1+) motor has.

Thought so. Got fumbled with the short forms and such. [Waits for your video and another reason to get the MS working and on the car.]

[sideways82]

Have you thought about running water/methanol kit with that set up. Would probly help out a ton with weather up in the 92's. Plus keep ur engine nice and cool and piston heads clean.

[Darrow]

The DSM *I'm using ford 6 cyl coil pack* coilpack is working well for me. I'm no where near the power as you. I mounted the coilpack where the stock ignitor went and adapted some ford wires to make them long enough.

[cheappower82]

Have you thought about running water/methanol kit with that set up. Would probly help out a ton with weather up in the 92's. Plus keep ur engine nice and cool and piston heads clean.

one of the guys who tunes the car runs meth on his brick; gotta get some more money before I can invest in that (on top of the other goodies I've got lined up)

darrow: do you remember what wires you used and how you adapted them?

[Darrow]

Here is what I did for the wires:

--Get some long ford plug wires off of a V-8 that plug into the coil pack. Get the ones with straight sparkplug ends, the bent ones wont work. It took me 2 sets. Get the stock ford ones and not the aftermarket. The connection is better, once you take the boot off you will see.

--Take the rubber boots off of the Supra wires. I just pulled them off the end.

--Cut the ford wires near the rubber boot on the COIL PACK end.

--Take the ford rubber boots off. You need to be carefull when getting the stock boots off of the ford wires. I cut the rubber a little and then pulled them off. Practice on the short ford wires since you most likely won't use them.

--Replace the ford boots with the supra boots by sliding them on.

--Put the modified ford wires on the sparkplugs and route them to where the coil pack is mounted to get the length.

--Take the coil pack ends, that you cut off earlier, apart. Pay attention on how the filliment is situated and how long it is. I used a small screwdriver and some needle nose pliers to take them apart.

--Once you get the length figured out you will need to cut the wires and take the outter rubber off to expose the inner filliment. Expose about the same about of filiment as ford did. A little more will be helpfull because you can trim it.

--Reassemble the coil pack ends. To clamp the coil pack end back on I use a small hose clamp and tightened it down as tight as I could get it. The physical geometry of the coil pack end assemply will prevent the end from coming off the wire. For clamping you need to be worried about making contact for the current to get to the plug and don't have to worry about it pulling apart.

--Connect and hope you didn't cut them too short.

Think that is about it. Let me know I you can't follow.

[williamb82]

is there some particular reason to use the mitsubishi stuf instead of the ford edis stuff?

[Darrow]

I am using a ford coil pack. For some reason I thought DSM ment the same as USDM. Sorry for my idiocy.

[BillyM]

...william, my guess is the mitsubishi coils have a built-in firing relay to negate the VB921's?

--billyM

[williamb82]

edis doesnt use vb921's. everything is contained in the edis module. just has 2 wires to the ms. 1 to and 1 from. if one of them is disconnected it runs 10deg btdc fixed. the wires are used so the ms can advance or retard the timing as necc. he already has the edis trigger wheel installed and is using it so figured edis 6 would be easier. idk. just wondering myself.

[BillyM]

Ahhh, yes that I'm aware of (currently sitting on an edis setup in the shed) but I think he's decidedly sticking with direct firing from the MS, as he mentions in post three...

Anyhow, speculation at this point and I'll let him chime in.

--billyM

[williamb82]

im doing coil on plug myself. using 2 edis modules in parallel. still waste spark though. using ford c.o.p. coils. i was gonna order the ms starter harness today but am buying other parts instead now. still havent built the vr sensor mounting bracket yet anyway. lol