Auto to Manual tranny swap

[pcourtney]

The auto tranny in my supra is acting up and shifting erratically.
The speed sensor in the dash checks out as well as the TPS voltage
on the DG terminal. Before I start throwing money at the automatic, I am
considering swapping the auto tranny to a manual tranny in an 86
Supra MKII. I have a few questions for someone who has done it.

I assume I need the following:

Tranny
clutch pedal assembly
shifter and linkage
center console
slave cylinder and line

Anything else??

what about the drive shaft? are they interchangeable between standard
and auto?

What about mounts? the same?

Am I going to find a boogey man in the closet when I'm half way
through?

Thanks for the help,

Perry

[Supra Bob]

Perry,

If you go to the Yahoo Mailing List (you can get to it from www.celicasupra.com .. click on mailing list) and ask Shive Govel. He's done this exact swap not too long ago and can detail it pretty well for ya.

[Junkie]

The auto tranny in my supra is acting up and shifting erratically.
The speed sensor in the dash checks out as well as the TPS voltage
on the DG terminal. Before I start throwing money at the automatic, I am
considering swapping the auto tranny to a manual tranny in an 86
Supra MKII. I have a few questions for someone who has done it.

I assume I need the following:

Tranny
clutch pedal assembly
shifter and linkage
center console
slave cylinder and line

Anything else??

what about the drive shaft? are they interchangeable between standard
and auto?

What about mounts? the same?

Am I going to find a boogey man in the closet when I'm half way
through?

Thanks for the help,

Perry


I think you need at least the front 1/2 of the D.S. Hell,all the auto cars I have worked on,even have the tab for the clutch master - slave line.
Mounts interchange.
Don't forget the flywhell,clutch and pressure plate.

[Norbie]

Yes, you need to swap the front section of the driveshaft, or have your existing one lengthened/shortened (can't remember which).

[ITSUKI Drifter]

you will also need the tranny bracket for the auto is way longer than the manual

[racecardaddy]

I just got done with this last month. I traded some parts for a complete m/t car, so I had all of the parts. Here is what I ran into for problems:

1) Def. get the trans x-member from the m/t. You need the frt driveshaft half, as Norbie stated, too.
2) Installing the clutch pedal assy is straight forward, but a pain in the ass. I did not install the two bolts that go into the bracket verticaly throught the cowl. I had to trim a small piece fromt eh lt kick panel over the fuse box, as it interfered with the pedal movement.
3) Don't forget to provide for reverse lamps. I forgot to keep the wiring from the auto, so I have got to figure this out yet.
4) How to seal the floor around the shifter, as the hole is about 1/4 inch more forward, and leaves a space to the rear of the m/t shifter.

A small list of easy parts;
1) The plate between trans and engine are the same.
2) The consoles are the same.
3) It looks like the starters are the same.
4) The wire loom is easy to jump for the nuetral safety switch to be bypassed.
5) The lead from the clutch cruise control switch plugs right into the loom under the dash, allowing cruise to work correctly.
6) Holes are even cut into the carpet and padding for the clutch parts to be installed.
7) I removed the complete cooler lines assembly, cleaning up the rt side of the engine bay alot.
8) Speedo cable fits perfectly, same for both trans, appearently.

What a difference the trans made. I love the car now! It is soooo much more driveable. I also dig the 4.30 diff also, 5th gear at 70mph is 3200rpm with 245/45/16's.

e-mail me if I can do anymore for you.

Keith

[racecardaddy]

Oh, yeah. I bent a new tube for the clutch (3/16"), using metric to sae adapters on either end. I used a simple metric flex line at the slave cyld.

Keith

[Racetek82]

Keith's write up is very nice, but I would like to point out one thing. The upper mount for the pedal assembly is a MANDETORY thing. It was missing on my 84 L-Type, so I didn't attach it to begin with. After about 2 months, the whole pedal bracket cracked in half from the continuous flex. I ended up with a new pedal assembly, and fabricated a top mount of sorts with long lag bolts, some washers and nuts. I had to squeeze in there and drill two holes in the inner cowl area, then seal it with silicone when all done.

[scarletlizard]

I just assumed that all the bare shells are assembled exactly the same at the factory. When installing components is when the decisions are made between auto and manual. Is there a "template" on the metal ( on tranny tunnel ) showing where to cut hole for the shifter ??? I know my 84 auto has bracket for slave and "holes" for the clutch master and was taking for granted that the pedals and shifter hole would line up perfect. Damn, thought I had all I needed now I gotta scrounge for a crossmember. I'm not tackling this till winter when I pull the engine for a 7MGTE swap but would welcome more info to mull over. Thanks guys
DJ

[MK2 Fan]

i am changing the W58 auto for a R154 manual and need to know if the crossmembers will be the same. Of if i need to change the crossmembers for brackets on the two transmissions. Will someone who has done the swap tell me what needs to be done.

[SupraFiend]

2 small things to add to this topic. The consoles are the same, but you'll need a shift boot for the manual tranny of course, and two, the radiators are differenent. But there shouldn't be any problems using an auto rad with a manual, just the other way around. Oh and the guage clusters are different as well, but you can probably use either in either case with no serious problems.

[JZA-61]

The radiators are different?????? :shock:

How much so?

[Norbie]

Auto cars have a transmission cooler built into the bottom tank of the radiator.

[DongDong]

what did you guys need to lift the transmission? im thinking about attepting to do a conversion myself but i do not know how to.. :(

[Deanfun]

what did you guys need to lift the transmission? im thinking about attepting to do a conversion myself but i do not know how to.. :(for us... strong arms and tricky usage of 2x4's.

and i'm using an auto rad in my converted car with no problems whatsoever (aside from a tiny leak that's completely unrelated).

[Phoenix]

This seems to be the best auto to manual swap thread threre is. I'm gonna use the info here to plan my switch and as I do it I think I'll sumarize it with pictures of the process. :D Not to mention bumping it up for my own convenience. 8)

[skeen550]

This question isnt totally on topic but I figured it would be the best place to help someone with the swap to a w58 and help myself in the process.

I have an 85 with a w58 5 speed, if anyone is going from an auto to the w58 I will be happy to swap the w58 crossmember for an auto crossmember with them.

Or if anyone has one for sale pls let me knoe.

I am going to a r154 and need the auto crossmember.

Thanks,

Scott

[ritua1313]

I did this swap last summer, my main problem was dealing with the Toyota dealership for the flywheel and pressure plate bolts. I only had to trim the metal for the shifter about an inch towards the radio. It is a very straight forward swap. I too didn't originally put in the top two bolts and cracked the pedal assembly. DO THIS THE FIRST TIME!!!!!!!! There are already holes in the firewall for the pedal assembly to bolt to the master cyclinder just pull out the rubber gromets. I think the second hardest part was getting the top two transmission bolts. I finally went down to my local hardware store and bought a pack of 1/2" extensions measuring between 20 and 30 inches. We dropped them through the shifter hole and ran them to the bolt and in 30 seconds they were both off. Good luck on your swap and if you need anymore help let me know. I would also suggest rebuilding your transmission with a gasket kit from toyota. I think I paid somewhere around 28 dollars.

[ra24man]

I found my car ran better (timing advance curve, idle) with a MTM ECU and a dashpot adjustment as well...didn't see anyone mentioning that. Also...don't mix and match driveshaft halves...makes for some 5th gear vibration that only balancing can fix. Never plugged in the switch on the clutch pedal bracket...suppose that's why the damn cruise has never worked huh?

[Deanfun]

I found my car ran better (timing advance curve, idle) with a MTM ECU and a dashpot adjustment as well...didn't see anyone mentioning that. Also...don't mix and match driveshaft halves...makes for some 5th gear vibration that only balancing can fix. Never plugged in the switch on the clutch pedal bracket...suppose that's why the damn cruise has never worked huh?if you can figure out how to wire up whatever needs to be wired up to let cruise control work, I will be in your debt.

[ra24man]

I never even delved into it in the past. I did the conversion almost four years ago on the daily driver and I just never really missed it enough to work on it. I'm sure it can be done...and like I said, I never hooked the switch on the clutch pedal up (I thought it was a clutch start switch and left it jumped so that I didn't have to start the car with the pedal pushed in). It wasn't till I bought my second car that I realized I didn't need to push in the clutch pedal to start the car. I've never had any problems starting the car in the four years I've owned it, so I've never had to get under there and figure something out. What the hell is that switch for? The EPC calls it a cruise control release switch. It cancels out the cruise if you push the pedal in. Fair enough. The cruise ECU's are the same (on the 85's at least)...if I ever get around to it and figure it out I'll let you know. Personally... after driving many newer Toyotas with cruise, our car's set up is rather ancient, and kinda annoying in my opinion (speedup, slowdown..speedup, slowdown). They did it much better ten years later and twenty years later its even better.

[FuTaRa_DaN]

What do you guys think it would cost to get it done at a shop?

[cyhu]

Normally I charge roughtly around 500$cdn for a a/t to m/t transmision swap depanding on the car model. Mostly do 5 or 6 trans swaps a year Its getting pretty strait foward for me.

But ive got a question for you guys. The transmision got a second Ecu for the ECT on our model right? Didn't have time to really check out the wiring diagram yet. But you guys did anything to cancel it out? And is the a/t engine ecu the same as manual for the mapping?

I also noticed yesturday when I was ajusting my TPS that 84 and under got a different tps for the auto. (a bitch in a half to set up the wiring) At least on celica 90gts with ECT. At least I know the 85 is the same.

Anyways Ill try to right up a step by step write up for you guys wiring included to run like when it came out of dealer. If the write up didn't get done yet.

Planning on doing this in the near futur. Just got to fit my time bettewn clients.

Charles
CP Performance
450 572 1686

[lacrssgus14]

To comment on the different radiators. If you clean out the tranny cooler on the auto Rad. really well, u then have a nifty oil cooler with the addition of a few lines and hoses.

[RiverRat Cargel]

I know its an Old Post But making sure reverse lights work was mentioned. What wireing do i need to get off a m/t car in order to make this happen? also stupid question, Cross Member= The bracket that goes under the Tranny right?

[tyronicus]

Thread jack:
I have an '85 equipped with a 5MGE and a 5-speed. I intend to swap in the 5M from an automatic '87 Cressida and keep the manual tranny already in my Supra. What differences are there in the engine itself between AT/manual? Can I just plug the wiring loom from the original engine into the new engine? The more I type, the stupider it sounds.

Is it plug and play?

[RiverRat Cargel]

i put a 6m in a MT 84 then put it in an Auto 85 with no problems i belive everything in the motor was the same save for the fly wheel it had to be changed over.


Any one know about the reverse lights? wheres the plug for them?

[bozosoku]

In the AT there are two connectors coming out from the side of the transmission near the output shaft, they indicate the shifter position, here is the pin out :
http://www.cygnusx1.net/supra/Library/TSRM/MK2/manual.aspx?Section=AT&P=104

Now disconnect these two connectors. If you short pin R and pin C (on the car side of the connector), the back up light should come on. Test it first.

In the MT there is only one connector with two pins for the back up light. In R gear this switch should close (ohm meter should show continuity). You need to connect one wire from the connector coming out of the MT to pin R and the other one to pin C. It will be cleaner if you swap connectors from the AT to the MT. Also very important is to short out pin B and N permenantly, this is the neutral start switch, otherwise the car will never start.

Cross member is the bracket that support the tranny, you need one from a MT car. Good luck.

[hd497]

this thread has been amazingly helpful but has anyone who has done this swap made a decent how to write up maybe including pictures? i am having trouble finding one, thanks

[meetlifefreax]

I to am having trouble finding a good write up im swaping a 5m manual to a
5m auto.

Thanks

[fortysixandtwo]

Great post, lots of good information in here. One thing I did not see mentioned was what transmissions work for the swap. It seems to me the R154 is the desired transmission for this swap. Are there any other manuals that work? Has anyone tried using Toyota mini truck/4runner transmissions instead of the R154? From what I understand you need the bellhousing from a 5mge and it bolts directly to a W56 4wd tranny... but what about a 2WD truck transmission?

Looking to see what trannies will work the easiest with this swap. Around herer I have access to an endless supply for toyota 4WD and 2WD truck/4runner transmissions, W56 series, G series, R series, you name it. Supras on the other hand.... i do not have any access to. Thanks for your help.

[Dan McBoost]

Woot. Thanks for the great post.

This SHOULD DEF BE STICKIED at the top. Searching for such a high demand topic is silly.

I will keep track of anything that pops up. I will take photos of all of the things I do, other than the simple crap.

Be back soon..

[jrok]

if you can figure out how to wire up whatever needs to be wired up to let cruise control work, I will be in your debt.

got a r154 swap with 7mgte and didnt hook any thing extra and it works...just dont push the clutch when in curise

[turbo MKI]

If any of the numerous 'auto to 5spd swap' threads should be stickied, I think this one here ** http://forums.celicasupra.com/showthread.php?t=23948 ** is the most complete.

Here is a post from that thread that has a good break down of some common issues (original post has pics as well)
http://forums.celicasupra.com/showpost.php?p=363947&postcount=7

"I've been meaning to add some info here since doing a few 5spd swaps in the last few months. First off, I'd just like to say that this whole write up is a great source of info for everyone! Though I've already done some 5spd swaps to my one MKI and some MKIIs in the past, it was years and years ago and this write up was very helpful - it makes it a no brainer for just about anyone. I just added my stuff below to try and keep it organized.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SliP View Post
Auto to Manual Swap FAQ:

Some key points:

You will have to cut a small bit of the body out of the car to fit the manual shifter in, about 1/2-1" of metal. The auto-shifter hole is not large enough to allow the shifter to fully engage gears 2, 4, and Reverse.
You do need to cut out the floor slightly since the MKII/ Celica W-58 shifter location is too far forward from the auto hole location - but if someone was dead set against cutting up their car - a MKIII N/A W-58 is a 100% drop in w/ no cutting required - it fits perfectly into the existing auto hole. Everything else lines up as well - its still centered enough w/ in the console so the boot fits w/ out issue.

Once the transmission is installed, you will have to trick the car into thinking it's in park or neutral so it will start. My method was to simply plug in the neutral start switch (which can be removed from the side of the auto-transmission) and dial it to the P (park) setting. My switch now lives in the engine bay, tucked by the cruise control module. It makes an effective (if unnecessary) method of immobilization, as turning the NSS to any setting other than P (park) or N (neutral) will not allow the car to start. If you wish to be more professional (and you do, don't you?), take a peak at the related wiring diagrams for your year vehicle. A little work on your part can provide a very clean solution.
*** I can not believe this hasnt been figured out already by someone else but this is all so much easier than any of this. W/ our MKIIs - the auto subharness runs along the battery/ starter cable harness - it contains all the plugs for the auto. If you simply use the battery/ starter cable harness from a 5spd - you dont have to mess w/ anything! You eliminate all those plugs so there is no need to jump anything and it also contains the correct reverse light connector for the W-58! Its easy to get to from the donor car and its easy as could be to replace. So maybe this harness could be added to the parts list.

From what I've researched (you're lucky I'm so nice), the reverse light plugs differ between transmissions, meaning that once you get your fancy new 5-speed transmission installed you'll find that you can't plug in your reverse-lights. Some simple wiring or harness modifications will alleviate this problem.
See above... Using the 5spd battery/ starter harness will have the needed reverse light connector. One thing to mention - if you use the MKIII W-58 - it uses a different (smaller) 2 wire plug than the MKII, but it is simple enough to change the connector.

Cruise Control:
I can not say for certain if using the 5spd battery/ starter harness will effect the cruise as its not on the cars I did the swap on. I suspect that since the whole NSS issue is solved, then it should then not effect the cruise.

ECU's (Auto or Manual):

The Auto ECU should work just fine with the manual transmission. I have never heard of any difficulties. If you have access to a 5-speed car ECU (of the same or similar year), there's no harm in using it.
You can use the auto ECU w/ a 5spd in the MKI, MKII and MKIII, just not the other way around. No need to get a 5spd ECU as there are no other differences of significance.

The Clutch Pedal Bracket:

http://forums.celicasupra.com/showth...clutch+bracket (Clutch bracket picture)
You will also have to fabricate a bracket or other holding device to hold the top of the clutch pedal bracket securely. Manual transmission cars have a bracket welded onto the inside of the car that holds the top of the pedal assembly. Auto cars do not. The solution I used was to drill a hole through the vent below the drivers wiper arm and thread a long bolt through that. the bolt feeds through the hole on the clutch bracket and was secured that way. Beware of leaks with this method.
There are several ways to go about this as many have pointed out. I found that the easiest way to do it was use the stock 5spd bracket. I just drilled out the 4 spot welds from a parts car and then bolted it to the pedal bracket - put it in place, bolting it to the clutch master and then used fusear (sp?) to bond the bracket to the correct location under the dash. I got the stuff from a local body shop - its this chemical metal welding chalk type stuff that is used on many newer cars right from the factory to attach 1/4's, roofs, or different types of metals (like an aluminum skin to a steel brace or frame). I've had it on my '85 hardtop since last year and no issues (I installed the pedals a little bit before actually doing the rest of the swap) . Very easy to do and didnt require any cutting or drilling into my supra, but even w/ out the fusear, you could just bolt the bracket inplace where the spot welds were.

Here are some pics of the stock bracket location:
From above - this parts car had a rusted out cowl - I just cut back some of the sheet metal and drilled out the spot welds from the top.

From below - pretty easy to get to; this car still had the whole dash still in place (just the lower section was off).

The bracket itself (ignore the nuts and bolts)



Additional comments, suggestions, and complaints are welcome.
Lastly - I was just wondering if it would be a good idea to also add this as a sticky in the drivetrain section...
Thanx again to SliP and everyone else that helped put this all together!"