Interesting tranny bellhousing thread

[MARQUIS111]

From my poking around, I ran across this thread:
http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=4244
Upshot of the thread is that in the tranny/bellhousing/engine game, there are more options than just toyota-branded makes.
Here is a quote if the site goes down:

Summary of important parts (to me): one can bolt any 60 degree-based GM engine up to an R154 or W58 (among others) with the right Dodge or Jeep bellhousing.

Just passing it on.
Brian
>>>>>>

The Jeep/Dodge AX15 5-speed, the Jeep NV3550 5-speed, the Toyota R150F & R151F, the 87-92 Toyota Supra Turbo R154 and the Isuzu AR5 5-speed all share the same case-to-bellhousing bolt pattern. As such there are a number of possibilities that can be had when a 5-speed is desired:

96-99 Dodge Dakota 2.5L bellhousing: Connects all to any Jeep 2.5L L4. Because of its GM inherited 60 degree bolt pattern, it also works with any Buick FWD V6 and supercharged V6, any Chevrolet 2.8/3.1/3.4 V6, any Cadillac 4.1/4.5/4.9 V8, any Isuzu 3.5/3.5 DOHC V6 and with a minor modification (moving a bolt hole), any Olds Aurora DOHC V8 and Cadillac DOHC Northstar V8.

The R154 out of the 87-93 Supra Turbo is a particularly robust gearbox and is used quite extensively by Australian hot rodders to back up V8 conversions.

http://www.classicconversions.co.uk/r154.htm

Further info: Jeep AX5, Toyota G52/G58, W55, W56, W57 and W58 5-speeds all share a common face pattern on the case. As such, any 88-99 Jeep 2.5L bellhousing (NOT Dakota) will bolt a Toyota W series transmission to a 60 degree GM bolt pattern (and Northstar with the bolt hole mod). The Non Turbo Supra W58 is not as strong as the R154, but is still no slouch.

http://www.classicconversions.co.uk/w55.htm

[rsdeo]

Great news, now see if we can get a bellhousing from a 3UZ to V160.

[MARQUIS111]

THE Holy Grail! No doubt. Too bad, but the very best this info gives us is a Cadillac Northstar DOHC V8 bolting up to an R154 with little effort. Not too shabby, but still not a *UZ engine.

[Funkycheeze]

i heard you can get a bellhousing for some weird version of the LS400 from toyota europe that will mate to the W58 or R154

with what you are saying though, it seems that i might be able to swap in a dodge 4.7L motor, like what i have in my truck

i'd raterh use a 1UZ or 3UZ

[BillyM]

Those northstars are no joke.

DoNOT take newer caddys lightly.

--BillyM

[MARQUIS111]

Oh believe me, if I had a Turbo MK3 with no engine and an R154, I would definitely not pass up the chance to slap a Northstar in it. That would be one mean car.
Of course, you can also bolt a Northstar up to a W58, but I suspect it wouldn't last too long.
What are the published spec's on the Northstar?

[Funkycheeze]

its around 300hp or so - i suspect a W58 could handle it, as long as you didnt do something stupid

[MARQUIS111]

Didn't know till now, but the newer versions of it will come in North-South mounting for RWD and AWD applications. It will also have VVT. Very nice. Cadillac is putting out a good effort on these engines.
http://www.gm.com/automotive/gmpowertrain/engines/northstar/apps/xlr.htm
Giving the imports a run for the money.

[dogstar]

sweet news :D
a northstar/r154 mkII.... ooooh, the possibilities :)

now to check the junkyards for 88-99 jeep 2.5Ls and caddys

one question is what to do for the clutch... jeep stuff, or toyota stuff?

[Funkycheeze]

duh

i own one, so i'll be the first to say that compared to toyota, dodge/jeep stuff is shitty in comparison when it comes to quality control and general durability (the exception is some of the 'good' jeeps for offroading, like the wrangler rubicon)

the only reason i manage to get *very* good results from my truck is by hand rebuilding things with aftermarket or custom fab parts

so go toyota - better yet, put a centreforce or eaton unit in there

[dogstar]

yeah, have to figure something out for the clutch actuator... i havent got much experience with clutches, but from what ive seen the w58 and r154 use very different systems, just not sure which would be the best option.

[MARQUIS111]

Looking at this site:
http://www.chrfab.com/
It shows the part of the bellhousing that needs to be modified:
http://www.chrfab.com/Transmissions.htm
Lower right bolt boss needs to be moved up 1".

Only other thing to consider is that, evidently, the factory starter on the Northstar is beween the cylinder banks! So you have to cover that opening and make sure the starter can fit on whatever opening the Dodge/Jeep bellhousing gives you.

This other site bears that out:
http://members.tripod.com/~grannys/enginescadillac.html
Weight-wise, it's surprisingly light: around 470 lbs.

[MARQUIS111]

Looks like something of this kind will be out soon from Dellow
http://www.autospeed.com/cms/A_0260/article.html?popularArticle
Either the R154 or the V160



Great news, now see if we can get a bellhousing from a 3UZ to V160.

[MARQUIS111]

Actually seems to be already out
http://www.dellowauto.com.au/catalogue/DellowAutomotive.pdf

[rsdeo]

Actually seems to be already out
http://www.dellowauto.com.au/catalogue/DellowAutomotive.pdf

Wow it is already out..... Good news.

[dogstar]

wow, nice stats on the northstar, 300hp and 265 ft/lbs.
hmmmm, and i know where i can get a northstar front cut for $1100...now to just get some money ;)

[MARQUIS111]

Here's a scary transplant:
http://www.racingstrong.com/toystar/index.asp
Check out the 3rd from bottom pic here
http://www.racingstrong.com/toystar/page12.asp
Definitely needs a custom suspension

[rsdeo]

How good is the new generation of GM V8s? How hard is it to cross both GM and Toyota wiring harnesses? I prefer to keep the engines common to the brand.

[dogstar]

the northstars are considered one of the best v8s out there... i think it was car and driver that had a round up of the worlds V8s, and the northstar was ranked high.

they make decent power, get pretty good milage, and are very low maintenance.
also seem to be able to handle sick amounts of power... there are a couple ive seen around the net and magazines that are running superchargers and twin turbos and what not.

[MARQUIS111]

Looking at this site:
http://www.chrfab.com/
It shows the part of the bellhousing that needs to be modified:
http://www.chrfab.com/Transmissions.htm
Lower right bolt boss needs to be moved up 1".

Only other thing to consider is that, evidently, the factory starter on the Northstar is beween the cylinder banks! So you have to cover that opening and make sure the starter can fit on whatever opening the Dodge/Jeep bellhousing gives you.

This other site bears that out:
http://members.tripod.com/~grannys/enginescadillac.html
Weight-wise, it's surprisingly light: around 470 lbs.


I got to looking at both sites again, and I got it backwards:
The starter is in the valley between cylinder banks, so you ignore the starter opening in the bellhousing (block it off) and you need to cut a new opening in the top of the bellhousing for the starter.
So two relatively minor cutting/welding mods to the bellhousing, and you have yourself an R154 bolted up to the Northstar!

[MARQUIS111]

Strangely enough, there is an AX5 2.5L bellhousing (the one used for the W58) on Ebay up in 1 day
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2461617069

[MARQUIS111]

Just ran across another thread that bears out the conclusions I reached in my orig post
http://www.4x4wire.com/lists/toyota/200106/msg00286.html

[MARQUIS111]

Adding another link to this thread to provide more info
http://www.jeeptech.com/engine/gm151.html
http://www.jeeptech.com/engine/amc150.html