L-Type vs P-Type

[MK2Racer]

I had a question. I was reading on SupraForums that 82 Ltypes had NO fender flare, 14x5.5 wheels, and 85mph speedo. I have an 82, according to the VIN it is an L Type, BUT it has flares, 14x7, and 130mph speedo (analog dash). The original hatch and bumper were black, car was white. Has red cloth interior, and front windshield antenna. Am I confused or what? I thought it was an L, but maybe it is a P and the vin is wrong??? Is there anywhere else it will say the type?


-Ken

[SupraWes]

The "L" in the vin stands for Liftback. Though it sounds like someone has changed the guages or maybe the drivers door all 82's & 83's no matter what style has 85 mph speedos. Do all the vin #'s match (door/dash/firewall)?

L=Liftback
C=Coupe
K=Convertible

[Supraa_luva]

According to the celicasupra site the L in MA61L stands for left hand drive.

Are the flares you have large or small? The easiest way to tell an L type is the L-types have smaller fender flares, not NO flare at all, they are just smaller. So if your car has larger fender flares that seem to be another piece then most likely it's a P-type. If they look like they are part of the panel and just flare out, then it's an L-type. I'd post pics of mine but I need to put my pics up somewhere.

The stock L-type rims are 5.5x14's, but like me maybe the person who had it before you put the P-type rims on cause they are a much larger 7x14 and look better.
I didn't like the small L-type rims so I found some P-type rims from a car some guy was parting out and put them on instead.

Not sure on the 130mph speedo thing. I have an L-type and mine has an 130mph analog speedo. The guy I bought the car from didn't do anything at all to this car so I doubt he would have changed the speedo only and nothing else.
Also my L-type has leather seats and power everything.
Has a black hatch and bumpers too. Has a two tone bronze/maroon(?) paint job but did not come with a spoiler/shade thingy. Had mounts for louvers though.

[SupraWes]

According to the celicasupra site the L in MA61L stands for left hand drive.

Yeah well I'm pretty sure its wrong. Anyone from downunder or europe wanna prove me wrong? I have yet to see proof of this.

[MK2Racer]

Weird. Considering the guy I got the car from, and its otherwise stock condition, Im sure he didnt swap the guage cluster. The flares DEFINITELY look like a seperate piece, not integrated with the bumper. As for the numbers matching, Ill have to check tomorrow once it is light out :) So from what I understand, the VIN doesnt indicate its L or P status? Other than what I mentioned, what things would dicatate this? As far as I know, all 82's (L or P) had the non-wrap around front turn signals (as mine has not wrap arounds) AND the black hatch and bumper regardless of color (which mine also was). So I have determined, I definitely have an 82... This I knew? Also, the flares have a bulge where the body trim goes into it. On a previous post, I read that on some mk2's you couldnt take the trim off because of this. Like I said before, considering the previous owner, I doubt he did all this work to change parts from two different types. It was 100% stock when I got it. Since all L's have the 85 speedo, and mine STOCK is the 130 I MUST have a P? Im more confused now than I was before.....


-Ken

[Dean]

VIN won't tell you if you have L vs P type. MA61L, the L indicates left hand drive.

Fibreglass fender flares = P-type. Does a magnet stick to them?
Drivers seat with little bulb to inflate lumbar support = P-type.

All 82's had 85 MPH speedo, regardless of L- or P-type.

Sometime in 83 (in Canada anyway) all Supras (L and P) got the 120 MPH speedo.

Check the build date on the plate on the end of the drivers door.

[suprasrock]

Just to clarify this, the VIN doesn't show left/right hand drive. The L in the VIN is for Liftback (my right hand drive VIN is JT1LBMA6100069884)
The 5th character in the model code shows left/right hand drive (eg MA61R-BLMQFW for right hand drive)

Check out here for analysis of the model codes http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/stepho/newcodes.htm


MK2Racer - are you sure your car is US spec? This L & P type thing doesn't apply in all countries.

[Supraa_luva]

If your fender flares are larger and look like seperate peices I'm guessing you most likely have a P-type.
What gives you the idea you have an L-type in the first place?

[MK2Racer]

Ummm actually the L in the vin code is what made me think it is an L type. I read somewhere (or so I thought) the L was for L - Type. This was obviously wrong, or I remember incorrectly. Hmm. time to update my sig. :)

[MK2Racer]

The VIN is jt2ma67L5C004477
It was manufactured in July of 1982
I dont know about the all 82's having 85mph speedo thing, Im almost 100% positive it is the orig. dash and it is an analog 130mph, everything else is right for the 82. I just dont get it. As far as Im aware, it is US spec. The underhood emissions sticker says a bunch of stuff about US emissions. Also, I thought I read the correct timing was 10 before TDC where my sticker says 8 before TDC? It is a 5mge, im sure of that. I might have to rename my car to frankie :)

-Ken

[CJSREDPRA]

Ken,

Can you please send us your "model code" that is located on the firewall dataplate tag??? It will say something like "MA61L-BLMQEA", or something similiar. I'm mostly interested in the VERY LAST letter on the end. If it is a "A" then it is indeed a US spec car. If it is a "K" then it's a Canadian Spec car.

To properly translate your VIN#, you need to go here:

http://www.celicasupra.com/vininfo.htm

To properly translate your model code info, you need to go here, as suprasrock mentioned.

http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/stepho/newcodes.htm

This much I do know at this point, since it has been discussed on the Yahoo list in the past.

Your July 1982 production date, indicates that you are near the end of the 82 production year & it's close to being one of the last ones made. There are still "some" that were made in the month of August, which tends to be the transition month for MKII's, as to when they roll over into the next model year.

It has been VERY WELL DOCUMENTED ON THE YAHOO LIST that the 130mph speedometer analog cluster was introduced for the 1984 model year, however, we did have one 83 P-Type (in East Texas) that was made in August 1984 (the VIN# did confirm that it was still a 83 car) that had the 130mph speedometer in it. The 130mph speedo was still NOT available for the 1982 or early early 1983 model year.

So depending on what the model code is telling us as to the car's "country destination", one of 2 things happened to your July 1982 dash cluster.

1. If it is INDEED a US spec car, someone DID swap in a 130mph speedometer into your dashboard. This IS a somewhat common cluster upgrade for those who want to get rid of their 85mph speedo. One of the main reasons for this, is because if you are CONSTANTLY PEGGING the 85 mph speedo all the time, then eventually it kills the speedometer sensor in the back of the cluster. When that happens, then your Cruise Control stops working.

2. If it is INDEED a Canadian spec car, then someone either did it to get rid of the 85 mph speedo, "OR" they wanted to get rid of the metric cluster that only goes up to 140 kmph (my "understanding" is that the early Canadian analog dash's were not metric??).

Let us know what the model code says on the firewall dataplate & get back to us.

BTW, it has ALSO been confirmed on the Yahoo list that NEITHER the VIN# or the model code will tell you if your car is a P-Type, or a L-Type. It will just depends on the interior code & the outside appearance.

To end this once arguement once & for all, can you post a picture somewhere??? :shock:

[RobMK2]

The guage clusters for early canadain cars were metric.

a friend has a 82 L-type, and I have a couple 81's ;)

[Jay]

Every 82 ive seen had the 140kmh (85mph) analog dash. I have had 2 83's however, both with the 210kmh dash (swapped one into my 82). Its an easy swap, and sure sounds like its been done on your car.

[82Ltype]

i own an 1982 L type. it has the leather seats w/ lumbar support,
85mph DIGITAL speedo. it ALSO has the fiberglass fender flares and is all one color, metallic silver. Since I am only the third owner of the car I know it is the original paint job and body style. It is the 5gme 4 speed auto. i hate the darn 85pph speedo and plan on swapping it with a digital 130mph speedo when I can find one!
I think that the fender flares were an option for the L type, there isn't really any other explanation for some of the Ltype to have the fender flare swhen some don't. Brian

[CJSREDPRA]

Not possible,

The fender flares were NOT A OPTION!!!!! You either have the flares (P-Type), or not (L-Type).

Only other possibility, is that someone installed the P-Type flares onto a L-Type. PITA to do since the fender lips are different, but if someone wants flares on their L-Type, they will find a way.

BTW, I have BOTH the US Spec & the Canadian Spec 1982 Sales Brochures & it does not mention that the flares are a option...

As I've mentioned before, the only "closest" way that we can determine if your MKII is a P-Type, or a L-Type, is to look & see what kind of interior set up the car originally had from the factory. So...... What does your interior code say on the firewall dataplate????

[RobMK2]

Only other possibility, is that someone installed the P-Type flares onto a L-Type. PITA to do since the fender lips are different, but if someone wants flares on their L-Type, they will find a way.



not to mention the front bumper plastic thing was made to blend with the flares in flared cars.

look at these pics, you'll know what I mean

http://www.geocities.com/rob85supra/index.html

[82Ltype]

Ok, here's my info:

June 1982 build date:

Model # MA61L-BLPQFA

As I read it the B-A means thus,

B=Supra
L=liftback
P=4speed auto
Q=high grade lux. or performance
F=twincam, efi
A=usa spec.

The car itself has:
L type manual(although it says 1983 year)
non wrap around front lights
4 speed auto (P types with auto?)
full leather interior w/lumbar support
automatic air cond.
power everything w/l/ps/sunroof etc.
Fiberglass large flares
is all one color, silver including bumper
front windsh. antena
85mph speedo
14*7s
no spoiler/louver
front bumper molds into wheel flares
So is this an Ltype or Ptype? I'll email you a pic if you want
RobMK2. Plus it'll suck if i have a ptype, I'll have to change my Forum Name ;-) Brian[/img]

[RobMK2]

wow, it is in fact an oddity...
especially because its all one color and original paint
there are signs pointing to both...

but yeah, send me a pic would love to see it even if I can't figure out the puzzle.

[CJSREDPRA]

Send me pictures also.

Christopher.Eng@metrokc.gov

Also, look at the bottom of the firewall dataplate & read off the codes that are at the BOTTOM of the plate. I'm mostly interested in the first 2 codes, which is the paint code, & the interior code. I'm not as interested in the last 2 codes (the rear diff & the tranny code).

For awhile (after I sent the last post), I also thought that this may have been a Canadian spec car as well, since the Canadian GTS's (the Canadian P-Type) also had the digital dash as a option, but the "A" at the end of the model code indicates otherwise (Canadian cars would have a "K" at the end).

Yeah, I agree, this is getting interesting.... The June 82 build date definitely indicates that it's still a 82 model.

Okay....... Was just looking at your last description again & you said that the bumpers are painted the body color also???? Sounds like a repaint... Send me pics of both ends & the interior as well.

[82Ltype]

Ok, I still don' think that the metallic silver paint I have is a repaint. I looked through all the paperwork I got with the car. Didn't see any documentation about a paint job.Unfortuately I couldn't find the paint codes to find out the original paint color. But here are the codes:
C/Tm/A/Tm 25SLP21F292A43DL

Ok, what the heck does all this mean? let me know ;-)
Brian

ps. Couldn't take pictures today, raining :-( Will do ASAP. I want to figure this out!!

[SilverMk2]

C/Tm/A/Tm 25SLP21F292A43DL

Sure your wrote this down right?

25S would be the color code, my source doesn't list this code
LP21 is the interior code (leather something)
F292 is the rear axle (4.11 non LSD)
A43DL is the tranny code (automatic)

Usually the easy way to see if a car has been repainted is to look in the door jam up by the hinges. Usually nobody repaints this area.

[CJSREDPRA]

Okay........

Things are still a little bit confusing, but now we're getting somewhere.

Can you please take another closer look at the paint code & the interior code again????

25S looks a little strange for a paint code. 99% of the time, the last digit is a number & not a letter. So if you could take a look at this again.... Thanks.

{edit} I just checked 3 of my paint color sources & 25S does not exist as a Toyota color.

On the interior code, can you take another look at the 2nd digit & make sure it's the correct one????? I'm wondering if that digit is actually a "F" rather than a "P". Depending on how dirty the plate is, or the weird angle you may be looking at it, it's easy to get it wrong.

In regards to the interior, this much I know..... FX21 is the Black Cloth P-Type seats for 82 - 83. LF21 is the Black Leather L-Type seats for a 83 & possibly a 82. So I need to know for sure if that 2nd digit is a F or a P.

THIS MUCH I'm able to figure out at the moment!!!! It looks like you were correct the first time & this car might actually be a L-Type car. The fact that you have: 1. A US spec vehicle. 2. The Digital Dash cluster. 3. A Non-LSD rear diff. All of these clues are pointing towards this being a L-Type car. None of the US Spec P-Type's had digital dash's or Non LSD rear diff's, they all had analog dash's & LSD rear's.

Me thinks someone went through alot of trouble to turn their MKII into a P-Type CLONE :shock: . So yes, your MKII is somewhat unique, but it didn't come this way from the factory!!!!

And yes, please still send me pictures.

[82Ltype]

Ok, yeah you guys were right, I did get the code wrong. I was outside in the dark at like 2am with a flashlight last night copying it, guess the glare made the numbers change. Ok here's the correct one(yeah it was dark AND raining out there tonight BTW):
2B8LF292A43DL

I also checked the door by the hings and it's the same silver color as the rest of the car. ???
Ok, let me know whats up with this correct code.
Ps. I'm emailing the one front/side pic I have to you both tonight. Brian

[CJSREDPRA]

WOO HOO!!!!!!!!!!!!

Rob & Aaron !!!!! I FIGURED IT OUT!!!!! :D 8) :shock:

Was talking to Brian (82Ltype) outside the forums via email & I was finally able to get everything translated !!!! Here's the scoop.

Paint Code: 2B8. According to my paint sources, he has the 2-Tone Silver Metallic/Gray Metallic Clear Coat on his MKII. He also sent me some more pictures of his Supra & the rear bumper & the hatch have been repainted the body color. The entire car is now some other strange looking silver color & it no longer has the 2-tone paint scheme.

Interior Code: LF21. With the above mentioned paint scheme, I'm now 100% sure that he has the LF21 Black Leather L-Type seats.

At some point in it's past, the car was repainted & the P-Type flares were added on. :? :shock: The 2B8 2-tone paint scheme was only available on the L-Type's, so this is indeed a real L-Type MKII that someone cloned into a P-Type.

Heh.... I guess now you can say Brian's MKII is confused???? :lol: 8)

[82Ltype]

Kudos and Thanks to Chris Eng for helping me figure all this out.
Ok, according to my paint codes and Chris, my 82 Ltype was originally sivler metallic above the side trim and below the side trim it was gray metallic. The rear hatch and bumper were originally black as well. Now, when i got the car it is entirely Silver metallic, bumper, hatch and all. It also has the flares from a ptype, also metallic silver. So it has been repainted to all metallic silver. Whoever did it did a good job! I really could not tell. So I have probably the only Ltype with Ptype flares in the Washington, DC area and maybe the East coast.. How cool is that? i would never have known. Well, so much for my restoration to original stock plans...Hmmm... Now I need a new plan! I need to get some body work done and repaint the silver anyway. Then maybe a 7mgte? That'll work!
thanks everybody who helped with this. it's really cool to know. Brian

[RobMK2]

hehe someone definately enjoyed that car enough to transform it... after seeing the differences between the two models metalergy, I had once told a friend it was near impossible to put flares on an L-type. Aparently, it isn't

well the mystery is solved. you have a story to tell now, 82ltype

[ZZT231]

Ok, here's my info:
... Model # MA61L-BLPQFA

As I read it the B-A means thus,

B=Supra
L=liftback
P=4 speed auto
Q=high grade lux. or performance
F=twincam, efi
A=usa spec.
...

So MA61R-BLPQEQ

Means MA61R - Supra in Right Hand Drive Format
B=Supra
L=liftback
P=4speed auto
Q=high grade lux. or performance
E=SOHC, efi
Q=Australian Spec.

Cheers.

[Bonerdude]

i was wondering what anyone could tell me about the specs of my car the last set of codes are.
- 3D1 YS4 F283 W58

Also i would like to kno where you can find the production date.

[Bonerdude]

sorry i was not as specific... i would like to kno the paint scheme/ color and what the interior is/was

[CJSREDPRA]

Bonerdude,

What year is your MKII??? 82 - 84????

3D1 I believe is the code for Super Red (not Super deep Red, which is 3F2).

YS4??? You're missing 1 more number at the end. Interior codes should be 4 digits. Either way, I'll have to get back to you on this one. From what I can remember, the YS code at least indicates a Cloth interior.

F283 I believe is the 4.30 LSD rear, since you have the W58 5-speed.

Production date can be found on the drivers door build plate, unless the door has been swapped out.

[Bonerdude]

sorry bout that...it is YS24...what is the color differences between super red and super deep red? also kind of a bummer...i got an 83...i always thought it was an 84

[SilverMk2]

Super Red (which is 3D1) is basically plain red. Super Deep Red is a much darker red. YS24 would probably be grey pinstripes, possibly burgandy. Besides I don't believe they had burgandy interiors till '85 though. Could be wrong on that one though.

[CJSREDPRA]

Grrrrrrr..... :mad:

Not sure what YS24 is. Esp on a 83. Most Super Red 83 P-Type's had the Black Cloth, which is a different interior code. Got me on this one.

Super Red is a Bright Red, while Super Deep Red is more of a Dark Red.

Aaron. Maroon interiors first came on the MKII's in the 84 model year, not 85.

[MK2Racer]

My 82 has maroon cloth inteior.
My car is a total mix-n-match, but I believed that the int. was stock. Apparently not...

[Supraa_luva]

are you referring to only P-types, only cloth interiors, or just ones that don't come standard with that colour type interior?... cause my 83' L-type has leather burgundy interior.

[marlowmk2]

my 82 ltype parts car has red interior in it

[Bonerdude]

its odd that my car is an 83 because i have the flip up door handles and the wrap around turn signals....i checked on the door and it says november of 83...also the back up lights are set to the inside of the liscence plate and i also have supra going all the way across also i have the defroster, cruise control are all around the gauges on the little shield for the speedo and what not...

[trdmkii]

its odd that my car is an 83 because i have the flip up door handles and the wrap around turn signals....i checked on the door and it says november of 83...also the back up lights are set to the inside of the liscence plate and i also have supra going all the way across

a november 83 car would actually be considered an 84 model, just like with new cars, the next years come in the fall. I have a 5/84 84 model and a 10/84 85 model, its crazy but thats how it goes.....

[Bonerdude]

ohh yea...that is right...it all makes sense now...thanks for that info...i still wish my car said 84...i been tellin everyone that asks it was an 84..now i jus feel like a liar for some reason

[Supraa_luva]

ohh yea...that is right...it all makes sense now...thanks for that info...i still wish my car said 84...i been tellin everyone that asks it was an 84..now i jus feel like a liar for some reason
but it IS an 84, lol.

[Bonerdude]

yea..but that number on the door panel jus stands out soo much...hahah...jus bugs me for some reason...hahah

[CJSREDPRA]

Oh boy.... More confusion....... :P

MK2Racer.... You have a White 82 P-Type???? I believe the White P-Type's had the Terra Cotta interiors, or possibly Black. Send me a picture of your interior. What's your interior code????

Supraa_luva.... Is that your Rose Gray/Mahogany L-Type in your avatar??? This should ALSO be a Terra Cotta interior as well!!! (Kris Kanten in Colorado also has a RG/M L-Type & he does have a Terra Cotta leather interior). Send me a picture... What's your interior code???

Remember folks, let's not try to get Burgandy or Maroon mixed up w/ Terra Cotta on the earlier model MKII's!!!!! This CAN get very confusing!!!

Bonerdude: TRUST US!!!! Your MKII is indeed a 84!!!! My 85 Redpra has a November 84 production date, but I know for sure that it's in the 85 model year I don't consider my car to be a 84. Josh Rapier's Silver 85 6M has a August 84 production date, but we know for sure that it's still a 85!!!!!

[Supraa_luva]

what the heck is terra cotta??? LOL
I'll try to get some pics up tomorrow sometime. Most of the interior colour (seats, dash, door panels...) is like that of the lower half of my car, a dark maroonish/burgandy/browny colour, not sure what the heck terra cotta is, lol.
oh, code is 2K7 LF31

(ugh, and want to get me pissed of mention the spot on my near FLAWLESS dash, stupid cousin decides to test the cigarette lighter right in the center of it!!!) :mad: AND OMG!!! just yesterday while playing street hockey my stupid friend decides "Gee, what happens if I slapshot the puck into the side of ed's car!" DENT~*"S :mad:

[suprasrock]

Hey Chris

My '83 is Rose Gray/Mahogany and the interior is FV1. Decode that :lol:

[CJSREDPRA]

Oh jeez....

FV1??? Well.... Something is STILL off, because the interior codes are usually 4 digits... Still missing 1 number at the end... :D

[CJSREDPRA]

Supraa_luva,

2K7 is definitely the 2-Tone Rose Gray/Mahogany.

LF31... Still trying to decode that one.... I'm betting it's the Terra Cotta Leather L-Type seats... Pictures of the seats & dashboard & steering wheel will confirm for sure.

Terra Cotta is more or less basically the color of those "orangey" clay planting pots... And no, I'm not kidding....... The color name "Terra Cotta" is in the 82 & 83 US Spec Sales Brochures... :shock: Why Toyota chose this color, is beyond me..... Personally, the Terra Cotta exterior paint looks great when it's taken care of (like Sidman's MKII), but when it goes to hell & is oxidized, it looks like rust. Same for the TC Cloth interiors, they look great when they are dark & new, but when they have that faded look...... :P :oops:

[suprasrock]

Chris

the full code is 2K 7FV1F303W57
and the interior is black cloth

http://www.yellowsun.plus.com/blackint.jpg

Leather was never an option here, the only seats were these

http://www.yellowsun.plus.com/seat.jpg

[Doug]

My 1983 Terra Cotta Supra with cloth interior reads:

MA61L-BLPQFK 3A7 FX31 F293 A43DE

colour code=3A7
trim code=FX31

http://home.cogeco.ca/~do-wat/DriverInt.jpg

[CJSREDPRA]

DOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!

Thanks Graham!!!!! You've just introduced me to the world of "Non US-Spec interior codes that are in RHD MKII's". That explains why the interior code looked a little bit odd.... :shock: :shock: This is the first time I've seen a 3 digit interior code... Learned something new again!!!! Black P-Type seats in a RHD MKII will have a different interior code.... :oops: :oops: :oops: :oops: :oops:

And for those of you who have never seen a RHD steering wheel, this IS what it looks like!!!! Almost looks like a Cressida LHD wheel & is obviously different than what was available in North America (well, at least we got the leather rim covering). :D

Supraa_luva: At this point (thanks to Doug's pictures & his codes), I'm now 100% sure that your RG/M 83 L-Type has the Code LF31 Terra Cotta L-Type Leather seats.

Ken... Does your "Event Horizon"s interior look like this???? :D At least the dash & the steering wheel????

[Supraa_luva]

yeah, after seeing Dougs interior it must be terra cotta cause mine looks like that (dash, arm rests, seat belt) aside from the cloth stuff and orangy look, although that might be because you can see the paint from his car that it's bringing out more of an orange tone in the interior.

I like the leather look though a bit more, gives it a nice dark tone inside, just my front seats are badly worn :(, backseat is fine though.

Also what's the RHD steering wheel and this leather skin you are talking about on the steering wheel? is mine missing something then? :(
[edit] oh nm about that. I just saw what you meant by his steering wheel, was looking at the other "terra cotta". *tries to get used to saying that*

Hope these pics show up, first time trying to use imagestation. These pics are taken with a REALLY cheap (well free) earthlink camera I got like 2 years ago or something.

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid65/p09b96c705de6647400e617c1e3a5a4e5/fbf389f9.jpg

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid65/pcf4aa9f48df39bd27f4be58753a539bc/fbf389f5.jpg

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid65/pfe15e85abc4db79e4f1d32712d0ba10e/fbf389ee.jpg

[CJSREDPRA]

:D :D

Yep, you're missing the Leather rim covering on your steering wheel. If you look @ Doug's picture carefully, you can just barely see it.

Yes, the RHD wheel I was referring to, was Graham's picture.

[Supraa_luva]

DOH! no wonder my steering wheel has always felt thinner than I'd like. Just going to have to add that to the Things I'm looking for.
Thanks alot for all the info CJSREDPRA, good to know things like the exact name of the interior and things missing.

[CJSREDPRA]

Well.... Now for the hard part....

Don't know of anyone who sells a leather wheel cover that will match up w/ the color of the Terra Cotta steering wheel. Not sure if Wheelskinz has anything close to it.

I know American Stitches does not. I need to send them a color sample one of these days.

[SupraFiend]

I think theres a tera cotta leather wheel in a low milage supra at a local wrecker here, I can check next time I"m there

[Supraa_luva]

that'd be awesome Suprafiend. If you do happen to check it out let me know for sure.
how about the front seats and the center console cover and the rear carpet and the roll cover thingy inside the hatch area? :D

It's hard enough to find a supra at a junkyard anywhere around here let alone one with the same interior. I've actually NEVER seen a supra with the same exterior paint as mine, well till I saw Grahams in his sig when he pointed it out to me.

[SupraFiend]

Actually the car that has the wheel has a complete perfect perfect cloth terra cotta interior. Only 160,000kms on it. Last I looked, which was recently, it had pretty much everything still. I tried to find a buyer for the whole thing when the car first showed up on the lot but no one seems to want a terra cotta interior all that much. I know can get the whole thing for $350 Canadain as thats what I've got them from there before in the past (for Leslie Grover). Make sure your interior is terra cotta though, and not maroon. And like I said, it has cloth seats so you may not want them (though they are in perfect shape). Theres also another terra cotta there too with a cloth interior almost as nice so I won't have a problem getting whatever you need.

[SupraFiend]

ok, I'm not entirely sure that Supraa_Luvas car has a terra cotta interior. I don't recal ever seeing or hearing about a leather terra cotta interior before, and from the pics it really looks like the burgandy leather interior to me. Chris, can you confirm this from his codes somehow?

[Supraa_luva]

I'm pretty sure it is after hearing all this and seeing Dougs pictures that mines leather terracotta. His is FX31, mines LF31, his being cloth and mine being leather, same number so I'm assuming that is colour and the others are for seats and leather.

My steering wheel, dash, arm rests, seatbelt, carpet, side trim are all exactly the same colour as his (his pic is good quality, mine were taken with a free earthlink camera so the colour is just a little off which sucks :() The difference is his seats and the side panels with the stripes look alot different as mine are leather and much darker coloured.

[SupraFiend]

hmmm, maybe they used the same leather for the terra cottas as for the burgandy interiors. The carpet on your doors looks terra cotta. Interesting. If you do get in on the leather skin group buy be sure to send me a sample so I can confirm that.

[CJSREDPRA]

Seamus,

He does indeed have a TC interior. Only difference is that his is the Leather L-Type seats, while you're thinking of the Cloth P-Type seats. The leather L-Types tend to have a rather "almost brown" color to them, while the Cloth tends to go towards orange. And yes, his interior code does confirm this, the "31" in the code is the big key. The 1st 2 digits are for the style & material.

So yes for the most part he does still have the same color interior. Now on the other hand, if Supraa_luva wants to convert to a TC cloth P-Type interior and swap out the seats & the door & side panels.... If you don't mind the stripes... :D

[Supraa_luva]

Don't think I'll be swapping to cloth, the stripes just aren't to my liking. (no offense to those with the stripes, :))

I was thinking the same SupraFiend. Maybe they used the TC leather seats from these and created the burgundy or maroon interiors. I would have to see those though, never seen either one, lol. Just a possibility. But would be useful to know. If it were true would give us a better chance of finding a decent seat at a junk yard to tear apart. I'd like to find a few and take them to an uphostry shop to make two newer looking front seats out of the leather, seems like a good idea no?

[SupraFiend]

Chris, have you ever seen a leather TC interior? Just from looking at his pics it looks to me like the TC leather is the same as the burgandy.

In the leather wheel rewrap group buy of years past, I take it the burgandy wheels were redone as well? Would it be possible for Supraa_luva to get a leather burgandy skin from that company and wrap his wheel? I don't think any of the TC cars ever came with leather wrapped wheels for some reason. Both of the two at the local wrecker had the same wheel he does, and they're canadian spec cloth ptypes, 82 & 83.

[CJSREDPRA]

Seamus,

Yes, I've seen a Leather Terra Cotta L-Type interior before in a junkyard, so they do exist. As mentioned, the Leather tends to lean towards brown as it starts to age & darken. It's definitely not Maroon or Burgandy. However, I do feel that Maroon is what replaced TC in the 84 model year, since Black & Blue was retained. And the North America interiors only came in 4 colors during it's 5 year run (Black, Terra Cotta, Blue, Maroon).

I agree, the best thing that he can do now, is to find a spare set of seats that he can have made up. AND.... If possible on his current seats, find a small sample of leather that has not been darkened over time, this way the correct & original shade of the TC leather can be recreated w/ dye.

This is what Jim King did about 3 years ago when a bunch of us w/ the 84 - 86 Maroon interiors did our leather rim steering wheel recovers @ American Stitches in Texas. Jim had to find a small sample of Maroon leather that had not been darkened (our Maroon Leather's are NOTORIOUS for turning dark over time) and sent them a sample.

TC leather steering wheels. Nope.... ALL North America MKII steering wheels had the leather wrap on them, as evidence in Doug's picture above. Most of the time, the leather is in a advanced stage of rot, or as in Supraa_luva's case, the leather & the foam padding has been completely removed. I've also seen about 4 TC steering wheels that still had the original leather cover on them, ONE OF THEM was still in a 9 out of 10 condition!!!! No wear or rot on it. I pulled it off & sold it to someone in the midwest about 6 years ago (should have kept that wheel). Anywho, I currently have a TC steering wheel that I need to get redone, but the leather is in a advanced state of rot, so one of these days I'll see if I can head up another GP for leather cover refinishes @ American Stitches (we're probably about due for one now).

Leather cover replacement. This is where things get a bit technical.

American Stitches WILL try & go the extra mile to do a correct & proper leather skin replacement on our steering wheels. This includes trying to recreate the original stitching pattern, the seam locations on the leather itself (will explain that in more detail in a minute) AND, underneath the leather wrap, they will replace the foam padding that is inbetween the leather & the wheel rim itself (yep, why do you think the leather is a bit on the squishy side when you grab it). On our original steering wheel GP, we goofed on the thickness of the padding needed, thus when you grab the current set of redone wheels, the thickness of the leather seems a little smaller than the original ones. When we do the next set of wheels, we will have to ask for thicker padding underneath.

Seam locations. This is where it gets even more interesting. When we did the Maroon steering wheels (I had 1 Maroon wheel & 1 Black wheel done), we of course used the 84 - 86 steering wheels & the original leather stitching pattern was copied & digitized for future reference. No other MKII steering wheel was used, this includes the 82 - 83 wheels. On the latter 84 - 86 wheels, you will notice on the wheel rim TWO seam locations that are in line w/ both wheel spokes that are at the 5:00 & 7:00 positions. BOTH of those seam locations were recreated on our redone wheels. On the 82 - 83 wheels, those seam locations are NOT in the same place underneath the spokes, they are located on the sides at the 9:00 & 3:00 positions. So already this is a bit of a problem.

At this point, I need to do 2 things. 1. I need to send to AS, both a spare Black 82 - 83 wheel that I have, and a spare TC wheel that I have. Both need to be recovered & 1 of them can be used as the stitching/seam location template that they can copy & digitize for the 82 - 83 wheel pattern. 2. I have a ratty looking pleather console lid that looks horrendous on the top, but underneath, where it wrapped into the metal part of the console lid, the pleather & the original shade of Terra Cotta is still in brand condition. I'm going to have them use that as a color sample & hopefully they will get some leather made up & dye'd.

So yeah, it can be done, but there are a few minor technicalities that I need to deal with first.

One other thing that I forgot to mention. American Stitches will ALSO replace the leather on our 5-speed shift knobs. Maroon & Black can easily be redone at the moment. Blue & Terra Cotta, they will need color samples first.

If you want, I can bring 1 or both of my steering wheels w/ me to the Baxters meet & you can check out their handywork. I had a Maroon & a Black wheel done. LMK!!!!

I also need to find the AS website. Will have to do this later tonight.

[SupraFiend]

Thanks Chris. A couple things.

"And the North America interiors only came in 4 colors during it's 5 year run (Black, Terra Cotta, Blue, Maroon). "

Not quite true, your forgetting the grey interiors on the 84 to 86s. Yes these are a replacment for the old black interiors (and they are mostly black), but the leather is a completely different color so it counts as the 5th color the interiors were available in in my book.

Since the faded terra cotta leather is so much darker, would maroon leather really look all that out of place as a replacement? I'd think it would be fine myself but I haven't seen the car nor a leather terra cota interior.

About all wheels being leather bound, don't know about that one Chris. Both the 82 and 83 TC cloth supras sitting at the local wrecker have no leather skins and look like they never had any. The 83 has 160,000kms on it and is in excellent shape. To give you an idea, there are no tears on the left bolster on the driver seat. Thats 1 of 2 DS supra seats I've ever seen in a wrecker that weren't torn (Jamie has the other one). God I wish someone would buy these seats, at least their out of the rain. I'll ask SupraZ if his 83 came with a leather wheel.

[CJSREDPRA]

Nope... :D

Even for the US cars in 84 - 86, it's Black, Maroon & Blue. The Black/Gray interiors for those model years is what Toyota calls Black according to the 84 - 85 US Sales Brochures. A Gray interior color is not mentioned anywhere, and on both the 84 + 85 brochures, the interior color is listed next to all of the available exterior colors. Yeah I know, it's weird. From what I heard, Toyota started to get weird & superstitious at times, or it's another goofy marketing thing. I was hearing things like the Japanese would NOT sit in a all black interior (it's considered bad luck), thus there are some light colors in places. Or the color description would be something totally different to what it actually is. 1 example is in the Teal 92 MKIII's w/ the Leather interior. It looks like it's a all Black interior, but Toyota Marketing calls it Shadow Gray... Figure that one out.

I'll have my US Sales Brochure collection w/ me @ the Baxters meet, you're welcome to look at all of it.

Steering wheels. Am just about 99% positive that ALL of the North America 82 - 83 steering wheels have the leather covers. This is what seperates the Supra steering wheels from the Celica steering wheels, the Supra's were unique, because of the leather covering. The plastic on the wheel rim holds up pretty well & hardly every deteriorates, so that might be the reason why it looks new. I'll bring my TC steering wheel with me to the Baxters meet & will see if I can straighten all of this out. There is a chunk of leather missing in 1 spot & the plastic wheel material also looks pretty new. I pulled back some of the leather in places to see if the original color was still there, and it is, but I've decided to use the remnants of a console lid, that has a larger color sample on it.

Yep, to me if you stick in Maroon seats in a TC interior, it will look strange. The seats will be MUCH darker looking & the difference will be obvious. The TC interiors tend to go towards a orange or a rust like color, while Maroon tends to be a darker looking burgandy or purple.

Interesting debate this is becoming.. :D

[SupraFiend]

yes but your mr. anal 100 percent factory correct guy :D And I mean that in the nicest way.

I guess I'd have to see a TC leater interior myself but I still think fresh burgandy leather would do ok in it.

About the interior colors, yes yes I know, the greyish ones are considered black by toyota. What I meant was there has been 5 different leather colors offered in mk2s over the years, which is important to me right now as I'm doing this leather skin buy. And in CS circles the 83 all black interiors are not considered the same thing as the greyish ones on the 84+s. Yes I've heard about the superstitions with black interiors too, they're unfortunate!

And I'm not sure about the leather bound wheels. I guess those 3 TC cars (including Supraa_luva's) could have had the skins removed but it does seem odd, especially on the really low milage one (though its center console leather was pretty worn).

[85_6mge]

Alright, my turn...

I am the previous owner of a pristine low mileage one owner 82 L-type TC w/cloth interior and it had a TC leather wheel. This car was purchased in St Louis and relocated to the PacNW shortly thereafter. I bought it as an estate sale from deceased owners son. Sold it to local gal recently.
Car came with all paperwork and leather wheel was standard equipement.

Greg W