POS cursed car, overheating AGAIN

[Tanya]

Car has been overheating off and on for the past week or so. At 1st, it was my 9 month old water pump that took a dump, replaced that. Car ran cool for a few days now it's starting this crap all over again
:x :x :x
radiator is a little over a year old, cap is brand new, no thermostat, coolant system was recently flushed and burped (but I suspect she may need burping again), no coolant leaks anywhere, heater functions fine blah blah blah. Everything seems normal. When the car was running normal, fully warmed the coolant was at 160 degrees. Now the damn temp gauge needle has been pinning red
:mad: :mad: I haven't checked the coolant temp after it pins red yet though

And I also have this damn tapping noise that appears to be coming from the exhaust side cam housing (I'm guessing a lash adjuster is screwed)

This damn car is cursed, and I can't keep pissing money away and not getting anywhere. If I can't figure this overheating/tapping problem out, I'm selling both of these cars. If no one buys them, they both go to the damn junkyard, and no I'm not parting them out.
:x :x :x

[Phoenix]

And I also have this damn tapping noise that appears to be coming from the exhaust side cam housing (I'm guessing a lash adjuster is screwed)



I had a tapping sound from my intake cam housing after I changed the cam housing seals. I think it was because one or two rockers got mixed up and had to reseat themselves. It went away after few days. 8)

I'm trying to learn how to get the gunk out of my coolant system. When I had the intake runners off I was amazed how much crap was in there. I'll let you know if I find a method that works.

Tanya, did you say you have no thermostat?

[Tanya]

I've never removed the cam towers from the engine, didn't need to remove them to replace the front cam seals.
Yeah, no thermostat. It's been running w/o one for ages, never a problem. Fan clutch seems to be kicking in fine.
I haven't even finished paying this engine off, and I'm afraid it's going to BHG :(

[Phoenix]

I've never removed the cam towers from the engine, didn't need to remove them to replace the front cam seals.
Yeah, no thermostat. It's been running w/o one for ages, never a problem. Fan clutch seems to be kicking in fine.
I haven't even finished paying this engine off, and I'm afraid it's going to BHG :(

Oh, I meant the cam housing gasket? The metal one. Though I did change all the seals while I was at it? I guess it you haven't removed the towers then that couldn't be it. When did it start tapping?

Why are you running without a thermostat? Doesn't seem like a good idea, but correct me if I'm wrong. Could the problem be as simple as that? :?

[williamb82]

i dont have a thermostat in either of my cars and they run fine. you dont need it unless you live in a cold climate, then it helps the engine warm up faster.
william

[Tanya]

it started tapping basically the same time the engine started overheating, which I find weird, but whatever. I'm stumped

[williamb82]

hotter engine=thinner oil=less lubrication=more friction=noise.

[Tanya]

I run 20W50 Racing oil, just had it filled yesterday, nice and high oil pressure, didn't calm down the noise one bit

[Phoenix]

i dont have a thermostat in either of my cars and they run fine. you dont need it unless you live in a cold climate, then it helps the engine warm up faster.
william

I think anywhere is a cold climate compared to Florida. Think it's necessary in a Tennessee winter? How does it warm the engine up quicker? Uping the idle?

Tanya, this isn't a hijack, just a slight interuption :wink:

[Tanya]

the t-stat will remain closed until it reaches a certian temperature, 180 degrees, 195 degrees, etc. The engine will be running hotter water quicker than w/o a thermostat.

er, something like that, I'm sure that isn't the best description

[SupraFiend]

a thermostat regulates an engines temperture. The ecu expects the engine to be running at a set temperture the whole time, it runs richer when its cooler. Your not doing your gas milage any favours running without one, but thats not the cause of your cooling problem. Try a pressure test Tanya, just because you don't see any leaks doesn't mean there aren't any. Is it a brand new rad or a recorred rad?

[williamb82]

the thermostat keeps the water from circulating through the radiator till it hits a certain temp. then it allows it to flow. with no thermostat the water continuosly flows so takes longer to warm up.

[Tanya]

This radiator I got when I bought my 84, the owner of that car bought it. Sure looks new to me, but I guess it could be recored. Not sure how to tell though

[SupraFiend]

yes I know, but it also bring it up to operating temperture asap. I've run without tstats before and the temp sits cooler then it normally does untill you really push the motor. Obviously in hotter weather it would run closer to operating temp but your still going to get lousy milage, and possibly emmisions, till it hits operating temp.

[Tanya]

I WAS getting 237 city miles after I removed the EGR, everything did great until now, gas mileage sucks bigtime, overheating, top end engine noise. I don't know how these all are related, but something's causing it...just dunno what

[Phoenix]

Have you flushed the coolant system? :?

[williamb82]

check the timing belt make sure it didnt slip and check your timing. incorrect timing can cause it to run lean and over heat.

[Phoenix]

check the timing belt make sure it didnt slip and check your timing. incorrect timing can cause it to run lean and over heat.

Yeah. When my timing is super advanced during timing adjustment it overheats like a nuclear meltdown. :shock: As far a I can tell anything over 12 causes some overheating.

[Tanya]

well I think I noted in the 1st post that I had flushed the system recently (about a month ago)
Timing belt is tight, timing is set to 14 BTDC. Timing was all screwed up when I had the TPS unplugged, but I fixed that problem and re0timed it a few days ago.

[Phoenix]

well I think I noted in the 1st post that I had flushed the system recently (about a month ago)
Timing belt is tight, timing is set to 14 BTDC. Timing was all screwed up when I had the TPS unplugged, but I fixed that problem and re0timed it a few days ago.

Oops sorry. But did you just gravity flush it or did you use solvent and pressure?

14 degrees is pretty advanced. I wonder what would happen if you took it back a little?

[Tanya]

actually, if I try retarding it to 10 degrees, she idles rough and sputters, so the engine likes 14degrees, noticeable power difference as well.

Coolant flush, we just used a bottle of flush, followed the directions, rinsed, repeat, rinse, etc. Had the car on an incline, burped it, went on our way.

[hereiam]

I think you should pressure test the system and make sure your cap is in good condition also

[Tanya]

it's a brand new cap, 14 lbs.

[williamb82]

i have a 16lb cap on mine. only other size ive seen was 13 lbs.

[Tanya]

I THINK I may have got the situation under control; seems the waterpump bearings were making the noise. Poured more coolant in and the noise disappeared, so we're running like a 70/30 mix right now...haven't driven her yet to see if she overheats... will keep posted.

[williamb82]

if the water pump bearings where making noise the belt is way too tight or the pump is shot already.
william

[Tanya]

hmm
none of this seems to make any sense at all to me. People telling me the waterpump needed "lube" from the antifreeze/coolant. They're out test driving it now to see if it overheats/makes the tapping again

[Glaucus]

Coolant flush, we just used a bottle of flush, followed the directions, rinsed, repeat, rinse, etc. Had the car on an incline, burped it, went on our way.I did that, and then went and got it power flushed at a rad shop. Some gunk came out. Sometimes chemicals isn't enough, you need some high pressure to make it work as well. Just a thought, although that's probably not the problem.

A quick and easy way to check for rad flow is to simply feel your rad and look for any cool spots after driving around for a bit. If the rad is partically clogged, then you will find areas where it's actually cool, while the rest might be pipping hot. If that's the case, you'll need to replace the rad.

And as for the water pump "lube", yes, most anti-freezes provide some water pump lubrication, you can also get water-pump lube seperately - usually recommended for older cars like ours.

- Mike

[falconindy]

well, no offense...but, put the EGR back in?

[Phoenix]

I doubt if it's the egr. Mine's running great without it.

You might want to back the timing to 12 and see if that affects things. My car "likes" 14 too but it does run hotter that way. My engine hates 10. I find 12 is a nice balance between performance and heat.

[Tanya]

awww BOOOO!
<OWNED by my own self
#1, overheating b/c of lack of coolant
#2, tapping coming from the timing belt tensioner that came loose...tightened the bolt, no more tapping
:D


:bashes head on desk:
car still pisses me off though, still considering selling, to the right buyer for the right price

[williamb82]

:dumbass:

[Phoenix]

:pat: LOL It's those dumbass things that are really hard to find. I never think of them. Too busy trying to fathom the complicated stuff. :?

Well done. :D :D Glad to hear you're back on the road. :mk2vroom:

[Dave A.]

yes I know, but it also bring it up to operating temperture asap. I've run without tstats before and the temp sits cooler then it normally does untill you really push the motor. Obviously in hotter weather it would run closer to operating temp but your still going to get lousy milage, and possibly emmisions, till it hits operating temp.

Agreed! Why are you guys/gals so reluctant to run a thermostat? Summer temps. in FL are nothing compared to say NM and AZ, although the heat combined with the high humidity here in FL is enough to make you gasp for air and croke. :oops: If the engine overheats with a T-stat installed then something is wrong elsewhere in the cooling system.

[williamb82]

i dont run a thermostat as i dog my car and do lots of high rpm driving and i feel the thermostat restricts the coolant flow too much. also, my car runs at the same temp with or without the thermostat.
william

[Tanya]

OMG!!! somebody kill this engine!!! It was quiet all night, we pull into our parking lot just now, and there's that fuckin tapping again! :x :x :x
So while now the car hasn't overheated (yet) the tapping seems to come and go as it pleases, which is seriously pissing me off

[Phoenix]

OMG!!! somebody kill this engine!!! It was quiet all night, we pull into our parking lot just now, and there's that fuckin tapping again! :x :x :x
So while now the car hasn't overheated (yet) the tapping seems to come and go as it pleases, which is seriously pissing me off

So, is the tapping still coming from the tensioner pulley?

[Tanya]

:? just used a stethoscope to listen around, no noise from the tensioner pulley...it seems that my injectors are annoyingly loud now. I don't understand why. they click so loud it sounds metallic...I cant seem to find any other source for the noise.
I'm wondering if loud injectors are a warning of something even worse about to happen
:shock:

[Phoenix]

Do you think it's a new sound? Or are you just tuning in more to it? 8)

Stethoscope,... that's pretty fancy. I've looked at those quite a few times myself. Can't ever seem to justify it though. Wish I had one of those. :? 8)

From what I've seen of the injectors they are a pretty simple on/off device. They shouldn't get louder. It's amazing what you can tune into if you try. :D

[Tanya]

I am having a huge problem hearing right now; I have the flu so my sinus' are screwed and can't hardly hear out of my left ear. It sounds like the tapping is coming from everywhere, really hard to pinpoint. Hubby can't hear well either.

The sound is so loud you can hear it w/ the hood closed and backed away from the car a few feet or so. I never noticed it before, if it is just the injectors, or maybe I'm simply losing my mind!
I just don't like risking damaging something by being ignorant
:(

[Deanfun]

i feel bad because my 85 runs absolutely perfectly until it's about 2.5L low on coolant.

let's not get into WHY i get low on coolant... that's a mystery i'm just not looking into right now.

[Phoenix]

I don't think it's the injectors. More likely the intake side cam housing. Just beside the injectors. Probably just a rocker reseating itself.

If you're feeling poorly though, take a break from the car and recharge your batteries. Help me out with my dash gauge design issue, instead. :D

[Tanya]

no one has any ideas on loud injectors? maybe advanced timing? or something like that?
maybe someone should call my cell phone so I can let them listen to it
:lol:

[lechner]

You might have a broken hydraulic lash adjusters. Those will often work for a while, then stop pumping up, then start working again depending on oil flow. And when they don't pump up you get a loud metal to metal clicking faster with higher revs. Pull the valve cover and push on each rocker while the corresponding valve is closed (will need to turn the crank) to make sure there is no play. Even with no play when stopped, they could still be bad at rpms, but if there is play, you just found your problem. Wait till it's noisy to try this.

[Tanya]

I'm pretty sure it's not coming from the cam towers (the noise)...there IS a loud clicking around #5 on the intake side, but I think it's loud because that little oil splasher plate amplifies the sound.
I guess I can't really describe it unless someone else hears it
:(

[Dave A.]

Try putting the scope down by the crank pulley and see if you hear a clack-clack-clack at idle. That would indicate a worn keyway in the timing belt drive sprocket that's about to let loose. :?

[Phoenix]

There's gotta be a way to post a soundfile. I was looking for one but no luck. Recording would be easy. The problem is finding a website that allows sound galleries.

If you hear it at the injectors, could it be valve noise conducting up the runners?

[SupraFiend]

no one has any ideas on loud injectors? maybe advanced timing? or something like that?
maybe someone should call my cell phone so I can let them listen to it
:lol:

5ms are renowned for loud injectors. They get noiser the older they get too

[Tanya]

Dave, I figured it may be that too, but we had checked the key ways for strength when we changed the timing belt a few months back. They seemed fine, no evidence of wobbling. The noise doesn't get louder there either.

I guess my injectors just got louder all of a sudden and it caused my alarm. I've been running around for months w/o a TPS because the TB leak was causing the TPS to "surge". I finally fixed that, and I reset the ECU, and the injectors seemed to get louder. I wonder if this means its running richer. Guess I'll find out Dyno Day 9-18
:?

[williamb82]

or the crank bolt could have been stretched and now working its way loose due to improper tq dispursion. did you replace that $7 bolt when you did the timing belt?
william

[Tanya]

um, no
didn't think I had to
:(
The belt was changed like 2-3 months ago and never made any noise.
If you can make it down for dyno day, could you check out the noise if it's still doing it?

[Dave A.]

Hmmmm.......so you're saying that dyno day is Wednesday, September 18th? Who is all going to be there?

[Tanya]

September 18th is a Saturday :)
Some peeps from Supraforums will be there, hopefully. Chris says he wants to make it down, Eric seemed interested. No one has confirmed whether or not they're going. I know I am definitly going (unless something blows up before then) :shock:
It's posted in the meets section.

[Dave A.]

Silly me! I was looking at September 8 on the calender. :roll:

[Phoenix]

no one has any ideas on loud injectors? maybe advanced timing? or something like that?
maybe someone should call my cell phone so I can let them listen to it
:lol:

5ms are renowned for loud injectors. They get noiser the older they get too

I didn't know that. I'll take your word for it. 8) But could you really hear them through the hood??

[Tanya]

yeah, it's like onlyu sometimes though, not all the time. it's very weird. I wish I had a way to record the sound and play it here, but I don't. I've been wanting to borrow my buddys camera for months, but he says it has bad sound quality. blah
:?

[Phoenix]

yeah, it's like onlyu sometimes though, not all the time. it's very weird. I wish I had a way to record the sound and play it here, but I don't. I've been wanting to borrow my buddys camera for months, but he says it has bad sound quality. blah
:?

No, Tanya. I believe you that you hear it through the hood. I just can't believe it's the injectors making a noise that loud. I was asking if Suprafiend actually knew of a car whose injectors were THAT loud.

I think if it comes from the injectors then it's valve noise reverbrating down the runners. Who know, it may cause the injectors to resonate. But I doubt that the injectors are the CAUSE of the noise.

With your stethoscope can you hear the noise when you touch the runner with the scope contact. Is it louder or softer. Is it metalic sounding. What's the rhythm? Is it regular? When does it happen? What makes it worse? What makes it better? How close to the car do you have to be to hear it?

I'm also looking into posting soundfiles. You could record on a cassette player and play it back to the computor's mic (cheap). I don't know where I could find a website to host it though?

[Tanya]

nah I put the scope needle on the injector itself, not the runners. It's rythmic with the way the engine runs.

[Phoenix]

nah I put the scope needle on the injector itself, not the runners. It's rythmic with the way the engine runs.

what happens if you put the needle on the runners?

[Tanya]

the sound gets duller

[dynamic73]

Removing the thermostat can reduce the engine life over 50%. You do the math. Also gas mileage is reduced. Plus a hotter engine produces more HP and has less wear.

[Phoenix]

the sound gets duller

Hmmm! :? Try placing the needle on the injector and then grasping the injector firmly with your fingers.

If the sound gets much duller it may be resonance. If not then that would point to the injector being the source.

[Tanya]

Phoenix, I've pretty much given up on trying to figure it out.
I could care less about the car anymore, I hope the damn thing blows up.
:?

[Phoenix]

Phoenix, I've pretty much given up on trying to figure it out.
I could care less about the car anymore, I hope the damn thing blows up.
:?

Ha Ha :D LOL. That's how I felt about mine a few days ago. Now it purrs like kitty cat. :D

You can always take your injectors out and rig up a homestyle benchtester. Not the best there is by a longshot but if you regulate the pressure (keep it constant) you can measure their output pretty acurately and clean them up a fair bit.

I don't know how much the injector cleaning contributed to the new performance. I committed a modification sin by doing more than one at once so I've no idea what I can attribute to each. Anyway, it drives, sounds and feel like a different and much better car so I doubt if cleaning the injectors did any harm. :D

BTW know of any good threads on how to test compression. What rpm's to use etc.?

[Deanfun]

[quote=Tanyas Mk2]BTW know of any good threads on how to test compression. What rpm's to use etc.?I test compression by removing all the spark plugs, threading a compression tester in #1 cylinder, cranking the engine over to get a reading (efi fuse pulled), reading the number, then doing the same for the other 5 cylinders.

[Phoenix]

[quote=Tanyas Mk2]BTW know of any good threads on how to test compression. What rpm's to use etc.?I test compression by removing all the spark plugs, threading a compression tester in #1 cylinder, cranking the engine over to get a reading (efi fuse pulled), reading the number, then doing the same for the other 5 cylinders.

Wow, I didn't know you had to handcrank it. I thought you just stuck it in there and ran the engine. Can you do it that way?

[Tanya]

Phoenix, not to sound like a bitch, but I'm trying to avoid taking shit apart, lol...I really do-not-care anymore. I'll run the car until it dies. I've done enough preventive maintenance. I'm done, through, quit, had enough. The only thing I'm doing to the car now, is:
#1. putting gas in the tank
#2 installing the RC intake (because the hubby bought it for my birthday, have to make use of it)
#3 dynoing the car to see how much I've failed
That's it. No more fiddling around w/ this and that, and timing lights and compression tests and new tires and blah blah blah.

And as far as I know, you don't have to "hand" crank the engine for the compression test. I remove the coil wire, just in case, and bump the engine a few times, then read the number. Make sure the tester is tightened down, or you'll be watching it fly out of your engine bay

[Phoenix]

Phoenix, not to sound like a bitch, but I'm trying to avoid taking shit apart, lol...I really do-not-care anymore. I'll run the car until it dies. I've done enough preventive maintenance. I'm done, through, quit, had enough. The only thing I'm doing to the car now, is:
#1. putting gas in the tank
#2 installing the RC intake (because the hubby bought it for my birthday, have to make use of it)
#3 dynoing the car to see how much I've failed
That's it. No more fiddling around w/ this and that, and timing lights and compression tests and new tires and blah blah blah.

And as far as I know, you don't have to "hand" crank the engine for the compression test. I remove the coil wire, just in case, and bump the engine a few times, then read the number. Make sure the tester is tightened down, or you'll be watching it fly out of your engine bay

Know what you mean about not taking shit apart. I'm not TOUCHING my engine for a long time now if I can help it. :D :D

I think just taking the car back on the road is definately the best decision.
Sounds like it's perfect other than that sound you hear. It'll probably go in a day or two. I wouldn't worry about it.

Sounded almost like you were looking for reasons to go back in. :D If the noise is coming from the injectors then the only danger would be that the injectors would stop working. It's pretty unlikely that all six of your injectors would go on the fritz at once. When I was playing around with them it didn't seem like the sound changed at all with varying voltage or current. :?

Can't imagine you running your car into the ground. Just cant picture it. 8)

[Tanya]

Well I drove around for a solid 2 hours yesterday, constantly. She seemed to do ok, performance wise. I was practicing launches out in the boonies, doing burnouts (wondering if the clutch was gonna leave me stranded), watched my gas needle go down. I had almost 3/4s of a tank of gas, I drove 90 miles, and have slightly over a 1/4 tank left, lol

As for me running the car into the ground, just wait until I get to borrow the video camera and figure out how to post vids
8)

[Phoenix]

Well I drove around for a solid 2 hours yesterday, constantly. She seemed to do ok, performance wise. I was practicing launches out in the boonies, doing burnouts (wondering if the clutch was gonna leave me stranded), watched my gas needle go down. I had almost 3/4s of a tank of gas, I drove 90 miles, and have slightly over a 1/4 tank left, lol

As for me running the car into the ground, just wait until I get to borrow the video camera and figure out how to post vids
8)

You gonna jump through rings of fire like Evil Keneval, Tanya?? :D :D I gotta get that video.

[Tanya]

lol, no; burnouts and donuts and maybe an 1/8th mile track event. I might try to get my dyno on vid too

[Phoenix]

lol, no; burnouts and donuts and maybe an 1/8th mile track event. I might try to get my dyno on vid too

Cool! :D I'll look out for that 8)

[Deanfun]

[quote=Tanyas Mk2]BTW know of any good threads on how to test compression. What rpm's to use etc.?I test compression by removing all the spark plugs, threading a compression tester in #1 cylinder, cranking the engine over to get a reading (efi fuse pulled), reading the number, then doing the same for the other 5 cylinders.

Wow, I didn't know you had to handcrank it. I thought you just stuck it in there and ran the engine. Can you do it that way?oh i don't handcrank it, i just turn the key and use the starter to turn it over. with all the sparkplugs removed, and the fuel system dead to teh world (pulled fuse), the engine just turns and turns.

[Dave A.]

Well, you have to remember that those injectors are probably at least 20 years old and that they are bound to get more sloppy as they get older. After all, they are electromechanical devices with moving parts that are lubed with gasoline.

A couple of thougts come to mind on this fuel injector clatter:

The injectors operate under pressure and probably operate much quieter than they would if the fuel pressure were non-existant or perhaps lower than normal. Maybe the FPR is on the fritz??

The fuel rail pulsation dampener is there to dampen any pulsation caused by the fuel pump and the on/off cycling of the injectors. If the FPD were to bind or freeze up, unwanted pulsation in the fuel rail might make the injectors unhappy and cause a little clatter.

All 6 injectors fire at exactly the same time, so the clatter could be coming from only one or two injectors, or all 6. Try using the scope to see if all of the injectors sound about the same, or if only one or two are to blame for the racket. If all 6 have suddenly become noisy, check the FPR and FPD, and check for a weak fuel pump. If only one or two injectors are acting up, try swapping them out for injectors that have less wear and tear on them.

Naturally, all of this type of testing could be done so much easier if the darn fuel rail had a test port for a fuel pressure guage. :mad:

HTH! 8)

[Tanya]

lol, actually, it seems #5 is the noisy one, but it's really hard to determine. The injectors got loud suddenly, lke after I fixed the TB gasket, and plugged the TPS sensor back in. I think myabe the ECU isn't used to running normal, and it's working the TPS back in ( I did reset the ECU however). Maybe it's pumping more gas than usual to re-learn the fuel maps or whatever. I'm no ECU/sensor genius, but that's my best guess

[Dave A.]

Try disconnecting and plugging the vacuum hose on the FPR and see if that makes any difference. Also, try putting the scope on the FPD and see if the clatter is louder. The FPD is right near injector #5.

[Angkistrodon]

Damn...this is one informative thread, it should be a sticky about how to bring many minds together to solve a problem...or at least try to. 8)

Whats the record for most replies?

[Dave A.]

Damn...this is one informative thread, it should be a sticky about how to bring many minds together to solve a problem...or at least try to. 8)

Whats the record for most replies?


I was thinking the same thing. All of this fuss over a clicking noise. :lol: I think the TRD cam thread still holds the record thus far.

[Tanya]

lol, I'm sorry guys, I appreciate your help. I will try to remember to check it out tomorrow. Thanks

[Tanya]

:mad: :mad:
haven't gotten around to checking the noise because I am too busy taking care of the coolant pouring all over the driveway
:x
that NEW radiator cap I got went bad and is spewing water/coolant everywhere.
Toyota wants $13 for a new cap, but do not have it in stock :?
So, I'll have to get yet another Discount Auto rad. cap. I guess I should buy stock in radiator caps. This is like the 3rd one I've had since I bought the car
:(

[MAD_83supra]

i have a spare brand new cap laying around from when i put my custom rad in.
This cap is good because I pressure tested it. I was also told by several mechanics to make sure I had a thermostat installed because they say the water could cavitate without it and would over heat. I also have a 7mgte fan and clutch you can have as I now run electrics.... Only thing I ask is for you to not leave our group> I dont want you to stop being a MK2 owner.

[Tanya]

I HAVE a 7M fan and clutch, which I think, personally, is too much a drag for the 5M engine. I hope to get a 5M setup back again.
Thanks Mike, I just got back from Advance/Discount with a new cap. I suppose it will be OK for another two months until it goes bad again :roll:
I hope to get a cap from Toyota, as soon as I remember to order one.
William hasn't ran a t-stat in his for a while, as long as I know, and he's had no problems. I'm having problems due to faulty parts (water pump, radiator cap, etc.). As far as me not running a t-stat, when all parts are functioning properly, the car runs fine, at 160ish degrees, EVEN at idle in traffic.
I actually do have the thermostat, but just haven't been in the mood to scrape more gunk off the t-stat housing and then wait such and such hours for it to dry.