Stock wings

[airwhirlybird]

Ok guys, i was just thinking the other day, do the stock wings on supra really help with downforce. i know that most air-foils(wings) don't produce downforce results until about 130 mph, but then again i have never seen a wing like ours. if i'm correct, our wing directs the air over the car to go down the back, and then hits the little whale tail that we have. just wondering if the wing is strictly for looks, or if there is some sicence to it.

[Emohawk]

(Your sig says you have an '84, so I'll assume that's the wing you're talking about.)

The thing about that is that it's not even officially a wing at all. Toyota calls it a sunshade. There's been claims both for and against it having any notacible difference on stability (I'm sure there'll be a few of them in this thread).
According to AutoZine's technical school: (http://autozine.kyul.net/technical_school/aero/tech_aero.htm#Wing)
"In the early 60s, Ferrari's engineers discovered that by adding an air foil (we simply call "Wing") to the rear end, lift can be dramatically reduced or even generates net downforce. At the same time, drag is only slightly increased. The wing has the effect of directing the majority of air flow to leave the roof straightly without going to the back, this reduce lift. (If we increase the wing angle, a hundred kilograms of downforce may even be available.) There is still a little bit air flow follows the back and leave the tail under the wing. This avoid turbulence that appears in non-fastback car, thus remain drag-efficient. Since there is too little air follows this route, its contribution to the lift can be easily cancelled by the wing."

Sounds like the 'sunshade' should at least kill a little lift, designed as it is.

[Dean]

At the very end of the metal hatch itself, there is a flat section about 4-6 inches long. This acts as a wing, adding downforce.
On the 85-86 models, the lower wing should add to this effect.
Not sure if the 82-84 sunshade will do much, as it is so high up. Air flow coming off the roofline will curve down along the hatch. Sunshade is pretty much even with top of roofline, so I believe it mostly just increases drag without adding much downforce.

[canadian_psyko]

I don't know...

My Celica doesn't have one, and the Surpa feels a lot mor estable at high speeds...
But there is also a lot of other fctors there... IRS vs solid axle, 14" vs 16" rims, stock vs dobison/tokico, etc...


Cam

[SupraFiend]

didn't we just do this

[Tanya]

i don't remember the subject being covered, but I'm sure it has been.

i remember reading an article mentioning the sunshade (82-84) creates more drag that inhibits top speed. somewhere in the websites articles, they claimed doing like 5mph or so less, shade vs. non shade.
I dont remember any comments on the 85/86 stuff

The Supra, or at least thr 84-86 Supras have a more aggressive air dam in the front which makes for a little more stability I'm guessing.
I remember my Celicas bouncing all over the road past 90mph, lol

[Emohawk]

Not sure if the 82-84 sunshade will do much, as it is so high up. Air flow coming off the roofline will curve down along the hatch. Sunshade is pretty much even with top of roofline, so I believe it mostly just increases drag without adding much downforce.
I repeat:
"The wing has the effect of directing the majority of air flow to leave the roof straightly without going to the back, this reduce lift. "
There's not a lot of space between the wing and the hatch, I'd say it does direct most of the airflow straight back.

[Superium]

I remember reading an article that our cars were #1 in aerodynamics beating out every car including porche, corvette, etc. back in the 80s.

[batmobile]

They probably still are more aerodynamic than most cars today, except for the newer supras, vettes and most exotics.

[supra8215]

They probably still are more aerodynamic than most cars today, except for the newer supras, vettes and most exotics.
and i think it was either Car and Driver or MotorTrend who did the comparsion to the mk2 supra, Conquest ( dont know year) and the Nissan 240z(280) o well.. but they said the supra was best all around and the only complaint was the popup headlights.... I do agree to some point about this but i know what a supra looks like cuz of those lights...and the rumble of a 5m (beside the poin)...

I like my " whale" tail...it makes me think that the mk4 wing was sorta known as the whale tail and where did she get it ?...the mk2...History!

[lechner]

The L type Supra had the lowest coefficient of drag and did best in the wind tunnel. The sunshade not only increases drag, but increases lift as well. This is why it must have a center support, not to push down on the glass, but to keep the sunshade from flexing upward. I suspect the fender flares also increase drag.
Even knowing this, I put a sunshade on my L type because the shape of that sunshade defines the celica supra IMO. So I added something to my car that makes it look faster but actually slows it down. :roll: Now for a VTEC badge...... :shock: j/k

[MKII boy]

Now for a VTEC badge...... :shock: j/k

whatchoo talkin' 'bout, Willis? :lol:

that badge should give you ~20hp, easily :P

-Evan :shifty:

[Dean]

Not sure if the 82-84 sunshade will do much, as it is so high up. Air flow coming off the roofline will curve down along the hatch. Sunshade is pretty much even with top of roofline, so I believe it mostly just increases drag without adding much downforce.
I repeat:
"The wing has the effect of directing the majority of air flow to leave the roof straightly without going to the back, this reduce lift. "
There's not a lot of space between the wing and the hatch, I'd say it does direct most of the airflow straight back.

Yes, I read that. However, you said that statement came from Ferrari's engineers in the early 60's, talking about an air foil. Until you tell us the style/design and placement of this "air foil" we really can't make any useful comparison to the Mk2 sunshade. As you stated in your original post, "it's not even officially a wing at all. Toyota calls it a sunshade".

The Mk2 sunshade has a very unusual placement compared to most functional spoilers. This has lead me to believe that it really acts as a "sunshade" (which is what Toyota called it) to keep the sun off the heads of passengers in the back seat.
As a side benefit, it is so unusual in its shape and placement that it helps define the Mk2 and set it apart from all other cars.

As for the Mk2 having great aerodynamics.... It certainly did have a low coefficient of drag for its time. It was advertised as being 0.348, which was lower than the Porsche 928. For comparison, my 1990 Acura Legend Coupe has a coefficient of drag of 0.30. The sedan was 0.32. Acura boasted at the time that they were "two of the world's most aerodynamic cars". I suspect many new cars would beat the Mk2 in the wind tunnel.

[Superium]

I love the 82-84 sunshade especially in the morning when thers dew on the car but only half on the rear windshield so you can still see out from behind you. I dont like the 85 sunshade because so many other companies have been making them that size for other cars now that its starting to look aftermarket. I wanna be king of sunshades and rule the planet, thats just how i am.

[Ross]

I love the 82-84 sunshade especially in the morning when thers dew on the car but only half on the rear windshield so you can still see out from behind you. I dont like the 85 sunshade because so many other companies have been making them that size for other cars now that its starting to look aftermarket. I wanna be king of sunshades and rule the planet, thats just how i am.

That's what I always thought, just was too scared to say it. :P

[airwhirlybird]

well, thanks for the input. it was a fun topic to discuss. now how do the wings that are molded and fit between the "sunshade" and the end of the car perform? i have seen them on some supra's, and i believe that they are not aftermarket. i have always wondered about these wings and how well they do, if anything.

[batmobile]

I have one of these on my car. They are fairly quiet and very good top speeed. i dont know how much dowforce they create. But i do know the top sunshade acts as a spoiler. the wind flows off the top of the sunshade and gets pulled almost underneath it, to the lower spoiler. Probably not as effective as the dual spoiler setup but its one of the best made by whoever.

[saint_sempai]

I own a '84 with the stock single wing. I have a bad habit of smoking, and I put the butts out the window, letting go of the butt somewhat over the roof. the butt makes pretty sparks I can see in the rearview mirror from the buffeting wind, like it sucks the air tight along the bottom part of the wing, along the hatch. aerodynamics is essentially invisible flow, and part of the overall aerodynamic efficiency is filling up the 'suction zone' behind the object, as in filling in the space as it moves foreward. I also seem to notice on rainy days the 'rooster tail' is very minimal, seems like the air jams the roostertail down, clearing view directly behind. I think what started out as a sunshade just has aerodynamic quirks that just go with the MkII