Possible Front Camber Plate solution

[SlimFastSupra]

I have a set of 88 Celica TEIN aluminum strut tops with spherical bearing. These have adjustable camber.

Based on eyeball and measurements, they appear to fit with a little muscle. However, I won't really know until someone tries to install them in a supra.

I'm willing to loan them to Josh, if he wants to try and install them (quickly).

I just thought I would give you some more options for searching, using my trial and error method.

The only other problem is that even if they do "fit" the angle could be wrong causing toe in/toe out problems.. So we'll have to look into that as well.

[BlackSupra]

RA60 struts work to add another 2 degrees of negative front camber

http://www4.tpgi.com.au/users/loats/technical/ma61/ra60strut.html

[BillyM]

Blacksupra.... I fucking LOVE YOU MAN!

I have been tossing around ideas on getting some camber on my stock-height mk2 for a long time. Problem is, I am in stock class and want to stay there, so camberplates are out of the question. I thought of looking for those offcenter bolts, but never got around to measuring it, plus the idea of weakening my suspension system didn't thrill me too much. I also thought of getting some custom stock-looking strut-tops, but that was going to cost money, something that is short these days.

Question: Has anyone actually done this? Are there any hang-ups, or is everything pretty straightforeward?

--BillyM
Viva La Autox!

[SlimFastSupra]

here they are, hopefully they do the trick...




http://alltrac.net/members/PatrickPosadas/PatMount.JPG

[BlackSupra]

You will probably want to get in contact with 'ed' thats his sight

he goes under the nick of ed_ma61 if he is floating on these forums

He is also going through with a 5 stud conversion with wilwood rotors and GT4 calipers!

The struts have mearly been measured up at this point i beleive, ed is the only person i know of doing it, but he beleives there will be no snags in the process as the strut is almost identical.

Think there is a slightly different location for the brake lines.

I will check a email i got back from him and repost.

[BlackSupra]

From Ed:

"ive lined them up against the ma61 struts and theyre identical as far as fitment is concerned (only you get an extra 2.5deg of camber.

i too have noticed the weired shock availability. the gabriel catalogue has the actual sizing in it, and the dif between the ra60/ra65/and ma61 is really confusing. to the eye they seem the sam, yet the cat says that the shock body length is around 40mm different across all three!! go figure.

so that said, im getting some ma61 shocks delivered to my local repco joint - just so i can try fitting them into the ra60 struts. ill let you know how it goes. could be a little while yet though.

cheers
ed"

[SlimFastSupra]

I currently have Supra Front struts in my RA6x GT.

[BlackSupra]

The idea of using the Ra60 strut in the supra is that they are mounted at a different angle to that within the supra and will gain an extra 2 degrees of negative camber.

One would think if you put the supra struts into the celica it would give you positive camber that you wouldnt want?

[SupraFiend]

no, reduce unwanted negative camber gained from lowering too far. Celica struts with a lowered mk2 supra would have insane negative camber

[BillyM]

Who is this that is "unwanting" their negative camber? Silly sunday drivers. Get out to the track and race your car around, enjoy that neg. camber....

Black, I think he is referring to the strut itself, not the strut assembly. When speaking of the strut assembly, say strut assembly, because strut is the thingey that slides down inside it (atleast to most people).

--BillyM

[SlimFastSupra]

I do not have the full Supra Assembly in the Celica, but just the Supra inserts.

I just wanted to let you know that if you did put RA60 housings in , you could still use your Supra insert struts.

[SupraFiend]

Billy, you really need to drop the hostility, and maybe your car too so you'd know what I mean.

Unwanted negative camber, hmmm, Well, lets see, I'm lowered 1.3 inchs and definatly have too much in the rear. How about Don Lew with his 3ish inch drop? Hes developing RCAs for a reason you know. Celica struts could be quite useful to someone whos dropping their car to an effective race height, not say, competing in a stock autox class. Your not the only guy who autoxs here bud.

[BillyM]

Cant drop the car, need to stay in stock regulations.

...and how would celica strut assemblies help 2-3" dropped cars? I was under the impression that the dropped cars would have more neg. camber than they knew what to do with... Celica assemblies would add another -2 deg camber.

No hostility here, and certainly no lowering.

Searching for some negative front camber,
--BillyM

[SupraFiend]

whoops, my fault, I read it wrong. Some one said it adds more camber which makes me think "positive camber" but it adds more negative camber. If you wanted stay at stock height that would be good then, but would be overkill with a serious drop. I'm guessing switching the strut housing would be against Stock guidelines though. I was reading up on the Solo Stock class myself today and they specificly say that any adjustment of alignment settings with stock alignment adjustablity is fine but any modifications to get settings beyond those extents is forbidden.

[Don L.]

Hey guys, where's the love ?

I'm trying to understand this thread on MA60 strut housings on a MA61 car, or vice versa. I think it's great to have an option of switching parts with another car, getting some alignment mod out of it. Those who are at stock ht and want some neg camber, this is pretty simple, swap in the MA60 assembly. If you autox and want to be in stock class, not legal. Go Street-prepared and its fine. But honestly, a set of camber plates will give you adjustability and more camber than you can use. Anyone who drops a MA60 enough to need the camber correction of installing a MA61 assembly, well, they will have much other problems like tire rub. Bump steer. Eibachs don't cause much neg camber. Really, 1.5 to 2 degrees neg camber on the street is pretty tolerable, if you can get it. The round rubber gets hard pretty fast anyway, good excuse to go buy a new set :)

Also, the RCAs are not legal for my use in SCCA Solo2 Street-Prepared.
With camber plates, my lowered susp is not fine with camber. The RCAs were only for bump steer correction and just a fun project for me to try and share with friends. RCAs do nothing for camber. Jim King hopefully will have some more info on the RCA subject.

Don L.

[BlackSupra]

im getting some ma61 shocks delivered to my local repco joint - just so i can try fitting them into the ra60 struts

The love is right here :D

Sorry boys i thought it was obvious!!! :oops:

Take the strut assembly from an RA60 celica and fit the MA61 strut inside the housing. Its the strut that gains the extra negative camber.

I dont intend to lower my car, however im looking at a higher rate spring so this also looks like a viable option if it is to work.

Im still not sure if Ed has actually undertaken the swap yet, best try and see if a worn MA61 cartridge fits first before investing in a new one, as the RA65 strut assemblys should cost next to nothing!

[BillyM]

I'm guessing switching the strut housing would be against Stock guidelines though. I was reading up on the Solo Stock class myself today and they specificly say that any adjustment of alignment settings with stock alignment adjustablity is fine but any modifications to get settings beyond those extents is forbidden.

But our cars are still, in fact, Celicas. You may use any part optional on the Celica, be it CelicaGT or CelicaSupra strut housings. If you asked around, you could have ordered a Supra with the GT front suspension. Atleast that's my take on it. Plus, I'm the only CelicaSupra in my region, so noone will know. Even if they think something is funky, who will be able to prove it? *Sneaks to top of g-stock* "MWAHAHAHA"

BTW: Don, we're speaking of using the ra60 celica strut assemblies on our mk2's.

I was only 0.6 sec away from a brand new CivicSi (semi experienced driver) on hoosiers. I think struts would have given me 0.6, and hoosiers would give me 2 seconds buffer time, incase anyone wanted to get cheeky with me. And with that -2deg camber... WATCHOUT!

[BillyM]

im getting some ma61 shocks delivered to my local repco joint - just so i can try fitting them into the ra60 struts

The love is right here :D

Sorry boys i thought it was obvious!!! :oops:

Take the strut assembly from an RA60 celica and fit the MA61 strut inside the housing. Its the strut that gains the extra negative camber.

It isnt the strut that has anything to do with the camber, struts are all straight up and down. It is the fact that the ra60 kingpin is further out and angled up more than the ma60 because the ra60 lower control arm is shorter, or the mount to the frame is positioned further back than the ma60.

--BillyM

[Don L.]

Hi BillyM:

Yes, the MA60 strut assembly in the Mk2 will dramatically improve your autox times ! Getting 1-2 degrees more neg. camber than stock is significant. If it fits, and strut inserts work well, plus Hoosiers, I'm guessing at least 1.5 secs, maybe 2 secs faster.

Downside is you could be a victim of your own success. If it is SCCA, the MK2 Supra is a G-stock car, Celica is H-stock. In Street-prepared Supra is DSP, Celica is FSP. Interchanging parts would be against the rules, but like you said, maybe others won't notice. At some point, though, someone might. Street-touring might be a better class, allows lots of susp mods, restricts to street (not r-type) tires to save money.

Have fun.

Don L.

[SupraFiend]

Don your confusing the hell out of me and probably others here. Don't you mean RA60, not MA60? We drive MA6Xs, the celica struts would be from an RA60.

Billy, I think Don is right about this mod being illegal, best bet would be to ask someone high up if this would slide. As for just not telling any body about it, well you just bragged about it on the internet. You'd better hope no one you race against is reading this.

[BillyM]

I dont run for points, therfore, to hell with anyone at the autox that wants to shit on my parade. They can toss me in whatever class they want, but I think its fair since my car has no stock camber adjustment. Nothing else changes, just the same as getting a race-prepped alignment done.

After that camber, new struts, and possibly tires, I will most likely be faster than anyone else in gstock, and will need to move up to the next level to test my skills anyways.

To hell with rules...

--BillyM

[Don L.]

Sorry guys, got my letters mixed up. Happens with age I guess :(

It's all about having a good time.

Don L.

[BlackSupra]

Yeah its the kingpin angle, but this is attached tot he strut assembly, so i purely infered the whole assembly made the difference, but yes, the key is the kingpin.

How intense is strutineering!? Take a keen eye to spot the difference!

Yep RA60 -> MA61 :)

Rules are made to be broken :twisted:

[justcallmefrank]

Somehow methinks that once its all assembled, they would have to be pretty f'ing cluey to notice 2 degrees of negative camber once its all set up and in place. I mean, these are the two in question.

http://users.tpg.com.au/users/loats/technical/ma61/images/ra60struts/main.jpg