Driving Miss Swan....The Continuing Story - Page 2

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  1. #11
    CelicaSupra.com Member gamble's Avatar
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    Love me some speed bleeders. Only weird thing is that sometimes i have a hard time doing the initial bleeding with a mighty vac tool with those installed, so i leave the stock bleeders on until i get to fresh fluid with a mighty vac, then switch to speed bleeders and give it a few pumps to finish the job. Call me crazy, but i don't like the thought of pumping an old master cylinder 100 times to get to fresh fluid all around, seems like it was never designed for that amount of pumping in such a short time.

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  3. #12
    CelicaSupra.com Member drjim's Avatar
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    Thanks for the tip!

    I'll leave the stockers in there until my Mighty Vac pulls fresh fluid through.

    Any other suggestions? I have DOT3 fluid, but I was thinking of maybe going to DOT4.
    1985 5-speed "Ms. Swan"

    OH, What A Feeling!

  4. #13
    CelicaSupra.com Member
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    I bought a vacuum bleeder many years ago and initially had lots of problems using it. I happened to find a post somewhere on the vast internet way back then that mentioned using Dow Corning compound 111 grease on the bleeder threads to keep air from being sucked back into the system around them and that it wouldn't contaminate the brake fluid. Conveniently, i just happened to have some in my vast collection of stuff from many years of fixing everything in the universe. It definitely helps as does not using any higher vacuum pressure than necessary.
    But I've NEVER been able to successfully bleed all the air out of the rear lines without letting the car sit for a few hours / overnight with the rear end raised higher than the front. My theory is that the vacuum bleeder doesn't have enough capacity or power to pull either enough fluid at one time through or enough power to pull all of the bubbles up and over the highest part of the brake lines heading to the rear calipers. It seems as if sitting with the rear elevated allows the bubbles to migrate most of the way towards the rear over some amount of time and then be successfully pulled the rest of the way out. But I could be totally wrong about this and this particular difficulty could be for some other reason. I do know that the solution I finally came up with does indeed work while nothing else I tried did. This may not be a problem with manual bleeding with an assistant or with a power bleeder. But neither was an option for me back then because power bleeders were way to expensive for mere mortals and the crazy traveling schedule I used to have with work meant that anything that needed to be done on the Supra had to be completed between me getting home Saturday afternoon and leaving again by Tuesday morning at the very latest.
    I'm just about to install all new SS lines but I only have speed bleeders for the rear right now. I've done the 5 lug conversion and am running the Q45 calipers in the front. I know that their bleeders aren't the same size as our stockers are but not what size they are so some research will have to be done to find that information. If anybody already knows, please advise me.
    Gamble's post makes me wonder if his particular difficulty might have been (mostly) with the rears and like my problem, solved by raising the rear for awhile. I don't know enough about how the speed bleeders work to even speculate. If anyone has any ideas about these issues, please enlighten all of us.

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  6. #14
    CelicaSupra.com Member gamble's Avatar
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    Speed bleeders are just a check valve with a little ball and spring forming the valve essentially, unless their pics online are fabrications of course...


    My theory is that the mighty vac tool just doesn't have the oomph to move the ball to let fluid flow through. I've never had issues with mighty vac tools(name brand or the cheap harbor freight knocks offs) working on regular old brake systems except with speed bleeders. I have been known to use a legit AC vacuum pump or just a spare vacuum port on an engine to bleed the hell out of dirty old systems though I have not tried those tricks with speed bleeders. Pumping mighty vacs by hand on long bed pickups forever until you get fresh fluid is not my idea of fun, and aquarium tubing to run from the fluid container they give you with the mighty vac to the truck's engine is about 3 bucks.

  7. #15
    CelicaSupra.com Member drjim's Avatar
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    Pretty cool. I never would have thought about using engine vacuum to bleed the brakes with!
    1985 5-speed "Ms. Swan"

    OH, What A Feeling!

  8. #16
    CelicaSupra.com Member drjim's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ray85p View Post
    I bought a vacuum bleeder many years ago and initially had lots of problems using it. I happened to find a post somewhere on the vast internet way back then that mentioned using Dow Corning compound 111 grease on the bleeder threads to keep air from being sucked back into the system around them and that it wouldn't contaminate the brake fluid. Conveniently, i just happened to have some in my vast collection of stuff from many years of fixing everything in the universe. It definitely helps as does not using any higher vacuum pressure than necessary.
    But I've NEVER been able to successfully bleed all the air out of the rear lines without letting the car sit for a few hours / overnight with the rear end raised higher than the front. My theory is that the vacuum bleeder doesn't have enough capacity or power to pull either enough fluid at one time through or enough power to pull all of the bubbles up and over the highest part of the brake lines heading to the rear calipers. It seems as if sitting with the rear elevated allows the bubbles to migrate most of the way towards the rear over some amount of time and then be successfully pulled the rest of the way out. But I could be totally wrong about this and this particular difficulty could be for some other reason. I do know that the solution I finally came up with does indeed work while nothing else I tried did. This may not be a problem with manual bleeding with an assistant or with a power bleeder. But neither was an option for me back then because power bleeders were way to expensive for mere mortals and the crazy traveling schedule I used to have with work meant that anything that needed to be done on the Supra had to be completed between me getting home Saturday afternoon and leaving again by Tuesday morning at the very latest.
    I'm just about to install all new SS lines but I only have speed bleeders for the rear right now. I've done the 5 lug conversion and am running the Q45 calipers in the front. I know that their bleeders aren't the same size as our stockers are but not what size they are so some research will have to be done to find that information. If anybody already knows, please advise me.
    Gamble's post makes me wonder if his particular difficulty might have been (mostly) with the rears and like my problem, solved by raising the rear for awhile. I don't know enough about how the speed bleeders work to even speculate. If anyone has any ideas about these issues, please enlighten all of us.
    I'm pretty sure I've got a tube of that stuff in my collection of things.

    I think it was called "Stopcock Grease", and was used with laboratory glassware. MUCH thicker than silicone dielectric grease.

    What's you guys opinion on brake fluid? I've read pros and cons of DOT4 vs DOT3. Pretty much the same, but DOT4 is refined a bit more, with some additives to repel water.

    DOT5 is silicone, and I don't want to go there, and DOT5.1 is glycol like the other stuff, but has an even higher 'wet' boiling point.
    1985 5-speed "Ms. Swan"

    OH, What A Feeling!

  9. #17
    Boosting Mod SilverMk2's Avatar
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    Best way to bleed brakes buy one of these (assuming you have a decent compressor) and skip the speed bleeders;

    http://www.harborfreight.com/automot...der-92924.html

    Best tool ever for bleeding brakes. Just hook it up to your bleeder lock the handle on the tool down and let it go. You just need to be careful because it will suck the reservoir down in a jiffy. I don't really trust the baby bottle thing to not leak they provide so I just poor straight into the reservoir as it work directly.

  10. #18
    CelicaSupra.com Member drjim's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SilverMk2 View Post
    Best way to bleed brakes buy one of these (assuming you have a decent compressor) and skip the speed bleeders;

    http://www.harborfreight.com/automot...der-92924.html

    Best tool ever for bleeding brakes. Just hook it up to your bleeder lock the handle on the tool down and let it go. You just need to be careful because it will suck the reservoir down in a jiffy. I don't really trust the baby bottle thing to not leak they provide so I just poor straight into the reservoir as it work directly.

    Way cool!

    I'm headed out in a bit, so I'll swing by HF and get one.....
    1985 5-speed "Ms. Swan"

    OH, What A Feeling!

  11. #19
    CelicaSupra.com Member gamble's Avatar
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    I hadn't even seen that one, thanks for the heads up. Looks to work similar to the suction feed media blasters where blowing air out creates a vacuum. Says it needs 90psi to work, not sure i'd recommend that setup with a little pancake compressor, but i do like how huge the fluid catch reservoir is. Here is a 10 minute vide on it if you are super bored :P
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wDSyZNDOjnY

  12. #20
    CelicaSupra.com Member ddd228's Avatar
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    NOT so good,IMO.
    The vacuum it creates can cause trouble.
    The system is designed for pressure. NOT vacuum. Sure the fluid gets sucked out.
    When the vacuum is removed,the fluid(and air) gets pulled back into the lines.
    Ray and I are old school and we have done this a few times,without mixed results.
    Be safe and pressurize the system.
    One person brake bleeding can be done safely without consequence.
    Speed bleeders are great!
    If you use 2 person bleeding,you may have BAD results.
    Do not let the pedal go to the floor on an old master cylinder!
    Use a pedal depressor and do it manually.
    Also,use GRAVITY.
    Open all 4 bleeder screws and let it bleed itself.
    As long as the brake pedal
    is in the UP position,fluid will dribble out of the bleeders.The compensation ports are OPEN inside the master cylinder bore.

    Want to take a break? Turn a quart bottle upside down on the master cylinder reservoir and it will feed fluid as needed.
    Mity Vac can bleed fluid faster. Silicone grease on the bleeder valve threads helps a lot.
    Speed bleeders are much faster.
    Clutch masters and slaves the same way.
    DOT 3 or 4 is fine.
    NO DOT 5,IMO.
    Dave in Seattle. I keep LATE hours.Hidden Content
    '84 type "L" ,Auto ,daily driver. Dk blue.

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