'82 Celica Supra dies "randomly" - Page 3

Page 3 of 15 FirstFirst 1234513 ... LastLast
Results 21 to 30 of 145
  1. #21
    CelicaSupra.com Member '82supra's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Nova Scotia
    Posts
    3,619
    $100 is right on the money...good choice to get another ignitor. If it works, you'll be good to go and you can use your other one as a backup/guinea pig.
    Hidden Content
    Terracotta Warrior
    aka Mr Whisker

  2. Remove Advertisements
    CelicaSupra.com
    Advertisements

  3. #22
    CelicaSupra.com Member drjim's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    SoCal / Long Beach
    Posts
    3,071
    Yep, I've got two "spares" for my '85.

    Got them both on eBay. Paid around $75 for one, and $80 for the other.

    And I checked them both as soon as I received them.

    I should renew the heat sink compound on both of them.......
    1985 5-speed "Ms. Swan"

    OH, What A Feeling!

  4. #23
    Hopefully between the two of these ignitors, I can keep driving my car long enough to save enough for a Megasquirt. I've already got a Painless Performance wiring harness, so I'll try to re-wire the entire car at the same time.

    Speaking of heat sink compound... As I recall, the consensus was that the D626 device on the '82 ignitor was of the TO-3 form factor, correct? If so, I will order silicone thermal pads for those.

    Now as far as the mysterious EXT180 device, can anybody tell from the dimensions I posted what the form factor is? I would like to locate an appropriate silicone thermal pad for it as well.

    EDIT:

    I discovered this nifty page on JEDEC's website. I couldn't find a standard matching the EXT180 device, so I took a shot in the dark and emailed JEDEC to see if they know what it was, or if it is even a JEDEC standard device at all. I'll let you guys know when I hear back.
    Last edited by Phillip Bromley; 10-31-2016 at 11:50 PM.

  5. Remove Advertisements
    CelicaSupra.com
    Advertisements

  6. #24
    CelicaSupra.com Member drjim's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    SoCal / Long Beach
    Posts
    3,071
    Yes, the D626 device is in a TO-3 package.

    I doubt if they'll know what an "EXT180" is, but if you sent them a picture with the dimensions, they might be able to tell you if it's a standard package.

    I remember working with some power hybrids that had multiple pins, and were in a package that kinda-sorta looked "TO-3ish", but that was so doggone long ago I dodn't remember much else about it.

    Let me go through some of my dusty old books and see if I can find anything.
    1985 5-speed "Ms. Swan"

    OH, What A Feeling!

  7. #25
    CelicaSupra.com Member supraz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    Vancouver, BC Canada
    Posts
    557
    It's the Cadillac approach for the price, US$291, but new Igniters are available for the 1982 model from Rock Auto.

    http://www.rockauto.com/en/catalog/t...ule+(icm),7172



    I sure wouldn't buy one if you are not totally sure it's the problem, but it's good to know that new ones are available if all else fails. I'm sure the used one you bought will be functional though.
    Black 1983 P Type 5 Spd, Cloth Interior, BBK,HRE 17" Wheels, HKS Exhaust
    White 1984 P Type Auto, Leather Interior, Sunroof, Digital Dash

  8. #26
    Good find supraz! Here's an interesting thought I just had: Look at this part of the description RockAuto has for that ignitor:

    SMP's ignition modules will respond to a weak signal from the crankshaft position sensor and begin energizing the coils immediately for better starts in cold weather
    Sounds to me like they've managed to reverse engineer the ignitor one way or another. Otherwise they wouldn't have been able to improve on the design as they claim. Perhaps it would be worth it to buy one of these and open it up to see what they came up with. That could possibly lead us towards a solution for refurbishing OEM ignitors.

    At $300, I feel like that's not too ridiculous a price considering that it's a practically permanent solution. I might buy one. Then, if I can fix the one I've got and the used one I bought also works, I could flip them both on ebay and recoup much of the cost anyhow.

  9. #27
    CelicaSupra.com Member supraz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    Vancouver, BC Canada
    Posts
    557
    Quote Originally Posted by Phillip Bromley View Post
    Perhaps it would be worth it to buy one of these and open it up to see what they came up with. That could possibly lead us towards a solution for refurbishing OEM ignitors.
    I suspect that it might be difficult to open up. It mentions that it has a "High-temperature polymer housing reducing moisture intrusion and minimizes vibration damage for extended life and improved reliability"." This could be the outer housing, but I suspect that it is the potting material that the electronics are sealed in. You would have to essentially destroy it to take it apart. I think that you should just accept the costs of the new part.

    Having said that, I definitely recommend using your used Igniter to make sure the problem goes away. I am the king of buying an expensive repair part only to find out that it wasn't the problem. Sigh....................... If it fixes the problem then you've got a new backup for the future when it may no longer available!

    Dale
    Black 1983 P Type 5 Spd, Cloth Interior, BBK,HRE 17" Wheels, HKS Exhaust
    White 1984 P Type Auto, Leather Interior, Sunroof, Digital Dash

  10. #28
    My replacement ignitor came in today. The housing is corroded as hell, and the inside doesn't look to great either. I'm about to go test it out now.

    I've got a bad feeling about this...

  11. #29
    CelicaSupra.com Member ddd228's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    N. Seattle.
    Posts
    4,433
    Corrosion is not such a bad thing.
    As long as the internals work.

    IF it does,as is,you can pull it off and clean it up quite well.
    I used some nasty acid wash for UN COATED aluminum wheels on my cam covers with medium results.
    I have used oven cleaner in the past.
    Otherwise ,it's gonna be Scotch Brite and some elbow grease,as they say.

    Test it to see if it fires the car up and test it for 2 days,at least. Hotter,the better.
    $100 is OK if it works!

    The other 'psycho' one will be in the car for a back up.
    You are going to get really good at swapping them out.
    We all are,already.
    Dave in Seattle. I keep LATE hours.Hidden Content
    '84 type "L" ,Auto ,daily driver. Dk blue.

  12. #30
    Here's the outside of the ignitor in question:




    The insides don't look much better:







    Looking more closely however, it seems as though that's not actually oxidation on the circuitry. It may be that the corrosion inhibiting "goop" that the board is dipped in is drying up. You can see it the same sealant on my original ignitor from my initial posts. Even still, the fact that it's drying up may be an issue.

    TL;DR version:

    The car started, but stutters really bad when I hit the gas. It was doing this, albeit not as severely when the old ignitor was installed. Is it the ignitor? Unplugging the TPS resulted in no change whatsoever. Is it a bad TPS? Something else?

    Detailed version:

    I just got back inside from testing the "new" ignitor. I'm sad to say that the results were inconclusive. The first two attempts to start the car were unsuccessful. On both attempts I turned the car over for 4 seconds. During those four seconds, the car was turning over very strong yet still not starting.

    Before making a third attempt I double-checked my wiring and connections. I discovered that the wire on one of the green plastic connectors leading to the ignitor had backed out of its connector. The plug I am referring to is the "third" one that doesn't connect to the coil, and has only a single wire going to it. The wire had backed out on the harness side, so the loose connection could have been an issue for both ignitors (more on that later).

    I re-seated the wire into it's connector, then proceeded to attempt to start the car for a third time. After turning over for two seconds the car started.

    I should note that I would consider two seconds an abnormally long time to turn over for this car. Prior to the recently developed problems aforementioned in this thread, the car typically wouldn't even turn over once; It would instantly start upon turning the key barring cold weather (in which case it would still start after turning over for less than one second).

    immediately after starting, the engine began to bog down to less than five hundred RPM and almost died. After approximately three seconds of bogging, it recovered and began idling (it recovered without any throttle input). The engine normally fluctuates between six and eight hundred RPM over the course of several seconds whilst idling. Tonight however, it seemed to want to fluctuate between five and eleven hundred RPM and over a shorter duration than normal (approximately three to four seconds).

    Upon applying a very slight throttle input, the engine immediately began stuttering, sputtering, and bogging down (nearly dying). A slightly sharper throttle input resulted in the same stuttering, etc. but then it smoothed out and began to rev properly. I let the engine return to idle and repeated this several times, with similar results each time.

    After a couple minutes of idling, I was able to apply very gradual throttle input and get the engine to rev up without stuttering or stumbling. Anything more than the gentlest input still resulted in stuttering, however. By this point, the engine was at least idling properly and not bogging down like it was after first starting it.

    All of the aforementioned stuttering issues were present (albeit to a lesser extent) while the old ignitor was installed during the last couple weeks. Typically though, the sputtering would stop after the engine warmed up. Could this mean that this ignitor is even worse than my original one? Or on the other hand, could this merely be a progression of a problem unrelated to the ignitor?

    While the car was idling, I unplugged the TPS and repeated the same series of throttle inputs as described above. The exact same results occurred without regard to whether the TPS was plugged in or not. Could this be due to a failing TPS, or rather that the problem is so severe that the reduced throttle response from unhooking the TPS is not noticeable?

    I have the old ignitor disassembled on my desk. Once I apply the sillicone thermal pads to it, I will re-install it and see if these same issues persist. I realise that it may be difficult to diagnose the problem until then.

    Another test I intend to perform is to start the car, and then wiggle/unplug the connector to the ignitor from which that loose wire had backed out of, to determine if that connection (or lack therof) what is causing the car to die, rather than the ignitor itself.

    I am also going to re-install my old AFM, and see if that changes anything.

    It's disappointing that the ignitor didn't instantly fix all of my problems like I hoped. But that's okay. I have this "curse" whereby I always have the worst luck with everything I touch, but as a result I learn about the system/device/process/etc. very quickly and become proficient with it in short order. If my car didn't break down so often, I probably wouldn't know most of what I know about cars today.

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

    Posting Permissions

    • You may not post new threads
    • You may not post replies
    • You may not post attachments
    • You may not edit your posts