82-83 Front Marker lamp wiring?

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  1. #1
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    82-83 Front Marker lamp wiring?

    As I'm tearing further into my car and doing more and more research for its restoration, I've noticed an odd thing. My front facing marker lights do not illuminate with the parking lights, whereas the side marker lights do. I thought it was odd but normal until I noticed a couple pictures, one of which was a factory stock picture of an 82, that had the opposite. Front facing marker/turn signals illuminated with the side markers out. So I tried digging around and couldn't find one bit of info about it. My wiring looks like its all there and hasn't been tampered with and its the wrong socket for a dual filament bulb. So big question, which way is correct?

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    CelicaSupra.com Member Road Ripper's Avatar
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    Front-facing orange signal lights are just that - - turn signal lights. They do not light up with the parking lights. There is a smaller light on the side of each factory fog light, inside the same housing as the fog light that lights up with the parking lights and side mounted marker lights. They all use a 194 bulb.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Road Ripper View Post
    Front-facing orange signal lights are just that - - turn signal lights. They do not light up with the parking lights. There is a smaller light on the side of each factory fog light, inside the same housing as the fog light that lights up with the parking lights and side mounted marker lights. They all use a 194 bulb.
    Awesome. I had a strong feeling that it was supposed to be like that but just wanted to make sure. Definitely an odd setup, I've never really noticed any cars that lacked front facing amber lamps for running, I thought it was a DOT thing. I see in your signature you have a Maggie, I love those things. Hands down my favorite LX. Magnesium Pearl is such a nice color too. I have a Dark Titanium 300C.
    1983 P Type 5MGE (restoration project/summer toy)
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    2002 Intrepid SE (first car, summer ONLY)

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    I agree that it's always seemed odd that these cars never had front facing amber parking lights like most vehicles do. Pictures have always shown the front blinkers as if they were normally on but not blinking with the rest of the lights like normal parking lights would have been. The sales brochure for our 85P is exactly like this. I still have it somewhere. Years ago someone on the forum hosted this exact image somewhere for downloading. But I don't recall the details now. Thank you Photoshop!
    So it must have not been a DOT requirement back then and may not be now either. I've always remembered one of the drivers license questions being, "When is it legal to drive with parking lights on?" Of course the answer is never! They're for parking. Doh!
    Thinking about our cars lack of front amber parking lights, considering that with headlights on, they're essentially not visible, their only actual function would be as parking lights and the little 194's in the fog light housings do indeed serve to make the car visible at night with the parking lights on.
    I've since changed the little 194's in the fog light housings to amber as well as swapped two pin sockets into the blinkers and modded the wiring to make them be on at night constantly like parking lights would be. The little amber 194's in the fog light housings are hardly even noticeable with theses on. At night the front blinkers alternate from dim to bright instead of off to bright like many vehicles do these days. During the day they look the same as always. There's forum threads concerning this mod if you're interested.
    Another change I looked at doing was making a bright clear constantly on front side light that came on with each blinker like one of our old cars had. Very useful when turning at night! Of course it would require quite a few additional mods to do this. Clear lens's and amber bulbs in front to start with. As well as much more modification to the housing and some serious wiring mods to achieve this. It turns out that making the circuitry to do this is much easier (for me) than modifying the housings for this would ever be. So I haven't bothered.
    Last edited by ray85p; 12-22-2016 at 11:25 PM.

  7. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by ray85p View Post
    I agree that it's always seemed odd that these cars never had front facing amber parking lights like most vehicles do. Pictures have always shown the front blinkers as if they were normally on but not blinking with the rest of the lights like normal parking lights would have been. The sales brochure for our 85P is exactly like this. I still have it somewhere. Years ago someone on the forum hosted this exact image somewhere for downloading. But I don't recall the details now. Thank you Photoshop!
    So it must have not been a DOT requirement back then and may not be now either. I've always remembered one of the drivers license questions being, when is it legal to drive with parking lights on. Of course the answer is never! They're for parking. Doh!
    I've since changed the little 194's in the fog light housings to amber as well as swapped two pin sockets into the blinkers and modded the wiring to make them be on at night constantly like parking lights would be. The little amber 194's in the fog light housings are hardly even noticeable with theses on. At night the front blinkers alternate from dim to bright instead of off to bright. During the day they look the same as always. There's forum threads concerning this mod if you're interested.
    Another change I looked at doing was making a bright clear constantly on front side light that came on with each blinker like one of our old cars had. Very useful when turning at night! Of course it would require quite a few additional mods to do this. Clear lens's and amber bulbs in front to start as well as much more modification to the housing as well as some serious wiring mods to achieve this. It turns out that making the circuitry to do this is much easier (for me) than modifying the housings for this would ever be. So I haven't bothered.
    I used to have a 95 Park Ave Ultra and it had the cornering lamps with the signals. Pretty funny when you're on a 3 lane highway and you Move to the inside lane next to a car on one of the outside lanes and that lamp lights up, gives them a little startle, haha. I was actually trying to figure out the wiring I would have to do to run an 1157 so it would run with the driving lights and also still function as turn signals, maybe even getting them to flash alternately between the inside and outside like a 90s GM. I'll have to poke around for that thread you mentioned. I'm glad I'm not the only one who finds it odd
    1983 P Type 5MGE (restoration project/summer toy)
    2008 Chrysler 300C Hemi (trusty DD)
    2002 Intrepid SE (first car, summer ONLY)

  8. #6
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    I hadn't thought of any implications this would have on the highway. Probably because I rarely use my signals on them. And truthfully, that's just another reason not to (properly) signal a lane change and give someone the opportunity to cut you off! Startling someone in this situation, causing them to react and create an incident certainly wouldn't be good either. Maybe this is why this feature isn't very common anymore. If, as you say, this could create a problem at highway speeds which does make sense, as much technology as cars contain these days, it would have been incredibly easy to disable this feature above a certain speed, such as 45 MPH. That would be high enough to disable it on freeways while still allowing it to be useful in town where it really helps make things easier to see, and makes it easier for people to see what you're intentions are too. But that would just make too much sense, wouldn't it?
    I do like how CA handles blinker use though, in that it's only really required when it might affect how someone else reacts because of your actions. I'll bet that not many folks are aware of this and have been ticketed for not signaling and paid the fine and everything else that can result from all these revenue generating tactics.
    But it really isn't a simple feature to add if it wasn't provided for in the required parts and harnesses. It would require a small circuit for each side that latched on with an initial pulsed input and stayed on until that ceased with some minimum amount of delay before it unlatched that was slightly longer than the typical time between flashes, even with very old bulbs which tend to increase in resistance some over time compared to new bulbs, which leads to ever so slightly longer time between flashes.
    The alternately flashing marker light situation only really works with standard bulbs. It causes lots of problems if trying to retrofit LED's. It works by alternately applying voltage and ground to opposite sides of the marker lights, which doesn't make any difference with regular bulbs. But this won't ever work with polarity sensitive LED's. And it's just not that the side markers would only either work with the blinkers or not at all, either. When reverse biased, LED's tend to bleed voltage to other circuits which can make other things partially work (such as other unrelated lights coming on dimly when they shouldn't be on at all) as well as preventing other functions from working when they should. Not good!

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