Sway bar specs...

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  1. #1
    CelicaSupra.com Member CLToy's Avatar
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    Question Sway bar specs...

    I have been searching but can't seem to find this information. I am trying to find the OEM front sway bar spring rate and the addco #745 1-1/8" front sway bar spring rate equivalent. I realize that the rates from a sway bar are not linear, but there should be some kind of range available to work with for tuning. If anyone has this information, please let me know.
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  3. #2
    CelicaSupra.com Member SupraFiend's Avatar
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    Try searching for whiteline threads. About a year and a bit after the whiteline group buy, a bunch of people noticed that they were a touch softer then the Addcos and someone sat down and did all the math comparing them to the Addcos and I belive stock. People just usually compare thicknesses to get an idea of how much stiffer a bar will be.
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  4. #3
    CelicaSupra.com Member CLToy's Avatar
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    Well, I did find an old thread that was good information. Searching white line made the difference instead of addco.

    http://www.celicasupra.com/forums/sh...+line+vs+addco

    I wish the spreadsheets and other information was still available. If anyone has this info, please pm me.

    So if I read this correctly, the addco bar has a rate of 684 lbs/in ?!?!?!

    If this is true, is it acceptable to divide in half and add the coilover spring rate to approximate the front corner spring rate at each corner?

    E.g.....I have 450 lbs/in eibach coilover springs....so each corner is approximately...

    450 + (684 / 2) = 792 ~ 800 lbs/in at each front corner

    Would this be a correct assumption?
    Thanks all.
    Chadrick
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  6. #4
    CelicaSupra.com Member SupraFiend's Avatar
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    Whats your end goal with all of this math here? I've run 450lb springs with Addcos before, are you curious how its going to work out?
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  7. #5
    CelicaSupra.com Member CLToy's Avatar
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    No, I am trying to tune my suspension. I am more used to tuning without swaybars, as I do not run sways on my AW11 autox car. I am finding it easier and possibly more predictable to tune without (as my AW11 has taught me); however, I would like to give the MA61 front swaybar a chance before ripping it out. But I will need to get approximate spring rates close to better tune the system. I have already ditched the rear sway bar in the MA61 and increased the spring rate in the OEM location. This has improved handling and ability to turn and stay in the power by keeping both tires on the ground more consistently. I am making even more changes to the rear by moving to a coilover setup and will be tuning the handling by increasing rear spring rates. I am trying to use what I have learned with the AW11. More information coming in my 6MGTE build thread and other rationale for going without swaybars in my AW11 thread.
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  8. #6
    CelicaSupra.com Member ddd228's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CLToy View Post
    No, I am trying to tune my suspension. I am more used to tuning without swaybars, as I do not run sways on my AW11 autox car. I am finding it easier and possibly more predictable to tune without (as my AW11 has taught me); however, I would like to give the MA61 front swaybar a chance before ripping it out. But I will need to get approximate spring rates close to better tune the system. I have already ditched the rear sway bar in the MA61 and increased the spring rate in the OEM location. This has improved handling and ability to turn and stay in the power by keeping both tires on the ground more consistently. I am making even more changes to the rear by moving to a coi lover setup and will be tuning the handling by increasing rear spring rates. I am trying to use what I have learned with the AW 11. More information coming in my 6 MGTE build thread and other rationale for going without sway bars in my AW11 thread.
    "Ditched the rear bar." YES! I almost did that. I tried an Addco bar back there and I should not have done it at all. It's smarter,IMO,to increase spring rates.
    The front Whitelines are difficult to find!!!! I got lucky in a group buy,a while back.Aussie stuff.
    There are/were a few custom bars for sale on the FS thread,recently.
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  9. #7
    CelicaSupra.com Member CLToy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ddd228 View Post
    There are/were a few custom bars for sale on the FS thread,recently.
    Yeah, Don was selling some but with my experience tuning without, I prefer to not have multiple items for a change. I am just trying to learn if I can get a balanced system with the front bar. If not, I'm taking it out too. I called Addco today but had to leave a message. Hopefully I can get more information from them soon.
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  10. #8
    CelicaSupra.com Member SupraFiend's Avatar
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    I wouldn't ditch the front. The mk2 has so much mass up front, completely unlike an aw11. If you just use springs the rates will be insane. Don L has experimented with so many bars and rates, he's found running the biggest bar possible up front to work best.

    As for the rear, maybe. Definitely fix the geometry first though. Spring rates and coil overs won't do much when you're stuck with -5 degs of camber back there and you're A arms spend 50 percent of the time on the bumpstops (they need to be shortened for big drops).
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  11. #9
    CelicaSupra.com Member drjim's Avatar
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    @Chadrick

    Is this for a track-only car?

    Everything I know and learned over the past 40 years has always led me to run big bars and slightly softer springs, as this keeps the tires in contact with ground better. Granted, on a billiard table smooth road surface very stiff springs and no bars might work, but if "stiff is better", you rapidly wind up with a Go Kart, which functionally has no suspension travel.

    Too stiff bars can be bad, too, as you can wind up lifting the inside tire off the road, but I just don't understand what you're trying to do here....

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  12. #10
    CelicaSupra.com Member Don L.'s Avatar
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    I wouldn't give me too much credit on the front end setup. I'm not happy with my front end grip yet, but I will say my front end still seems to lean a fair amount with my 1.25" hollow front bar. Still too much understeer occurring, not clear yet what the solution is. Removing the front bar is not one of my primary choices for change. Running a lighter motor in front might be a good solution though

    People have bump stops in the rear?

    With the right spring rate in front, I don't see a huge problem running without a sway bar though. Certainly would save 15-20 lbs of front end weight.

    Don

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