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Side View Mirror Repairs

22K views 45 replies 11 participants last post by  SupraFiend 
#1 · (Edited)
I have searched the web site and not found a thread on this so I thought I would start one. If this has been covered before then I apologize.

We know that the side mirrors on the MKIIs will eventually break and new ones are not available. So the question is can these be repaired. I decided to look into it. I got a set from a salvage yard and of course both were not working. You can hear the motors spinning but the mirror was not moving. I popped of the mirror and took a look and this is what I discovered and how I repaired it.

The mirror has two motors and both function in the same manner.



The motor spins a gear and the gear has an adjustment screw that moves in and out through that gear.



The adjustment screw moves the mirror in the needed direction.



I don't know if the adjustment screw just squeezes on to the mirror or is part of the mirror but it won't matter in this repair method. It is hollow so I think it pops on to the small round part of the back of the mirror.









SO the first thing to do is find the correct bolt size and thread to the inside of the gear. It is an 8 x 1.25. The bolt will need to be made of nylon. I could not find any locally so I bought a large bag off the internet. Not knowing the correct length need I purchased bag of bolts 50mm long. This would allow me to cut them to the correct length. I decided to cut the bolt to 25mm thread length.




The next problem was how to be able to push the mirror to the correct position if it ever gets knocked out of alignment (like it does when you clean the mirrors). I looked at what was left of the original adjuster and noticed that the threads on it were very thin and rounded, almost stripped. Being round and stripped allows you to push on the mirror; the threads slip through the gear.



The noise you hear when you push on the mirror is the adjusting bolt slipping through the gear. To get the stripped bolt I just whittled the threads of the new nylon bolt down to the correct size. The threads will have to be very smooth when finished. I had to do the trial and error method on this. I would trim the bolt threads and then see if it would slip through the gear. If it did not more trimming was need, if it did I had to see if I trimmed too much off. If I trimmed too much off then it would just slip in place and not move when the motors tried to adjust it.

The next problem is how to attach it to the mirror. The attachment point on the back of the mirror is not securely attached but is loose, it moves around a little. I am not an engineer but I had to believe it was designed that way for a reason. Whatever I did would need to be the same. Looking at the back of the mirror I decided I need to remove the small rounded attachment point and put the new bolt in there so I cut the original out.






The bolt head had to be trimmed to the correct size. A few cuts with a hacksaw took care of that. Now how to hold them in place.



The easiest way would be to glue them in place but I wanted them to be loose like the originals. I designed a plate that would be glued to the mirror but also with a hole in it to allow the bolt would go through. This allowed for the bolt to move. This would ease the alignment of the bolts with the motors when finally attaching the mirror. I made the first plate out of aluminum but it proved too weak so I used metal flashing. It is easy to cut and bend but strong enough. I use epoxy to hold them in place but being sure not to get any glue on the bolts. I let the glue dry overnight. It may not be pretty but no one will see it once in place.



Now the moment of truth, time to put it back together. This was a simple process but I was thankful I left the bolts loose. When it was time to push the mirror back on having the bolts move a little allowed for easy alignment with the motors.



I firm push to the middle of the mirror with my palm and it was on. I test revealed the mirror moves in all directions. I will have to wait until I put it on the car to see if I cut the bolts to the correct length. I will get back to you after I find out.

One more thing. If you have to pull the mirror back out and you can't pull the mirror out easily then back it out using the motors. Remove more of the threads and try again. Pulling too hard breaks the mirror.
 
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#2 ·
Just an FYI, but not all Mk2 mirrors look like that on the inside. The ones I've dealt with have a screw on the bottom. Remove that and you can fish the motor with mirror attached out as one piece. Usually what breaks on these is where the spring attaches to the plastic body on the mirror from hitting something. I really wish these cars had the JDM style folding mirrors on them.
 
#16 ·
Usually what breaks on these is where the spring attaches to the plastic body on the mirror from hitting something. I really wish these cars had the JDM style folding mirrors on them.
It seems to me that the spring that Toyota used is just way too high a tension for the application.
It looks like the spring is there to allow the mirror to fold back when struck lightly and then return. Instead, the screws that secure the spring mount to the mirror body pull out of the plastic.

Would a spring with lower tension make this function more the way it was designed? If the spring tension was too low I suspect that the mirrors would vibrate badly, but the current one is so high I don't actually see the point of having it; why not just mount the mirror with a solid mount?


The Phillips head screws that secure the sheet metal spring retainer to the shell are what typically pull out of the shell if the mirror is struck.

Dale
 
#9 ·
Interesting approach. I'm curious if your glued on metal will stay though. Popping the glass out of the housing and putting some kind of fastener or at least extending the glue through a hole on each side of the brackets would make it stronger, but of course you are risking breaking the glass. That is really the biggest problem I've always had with trying to work on these mirrors is its so easy to break them when disassembling them. Sometimes just one of those adjuster screws is broken, sometimes the plastic that holds the main pivot point breaks and the mirror still works but rattles constantly (Aaron, thats a problem common in the 85 XX mirrors too). Also your trick for using both motors (simulatenously shorted in to run in the same direction I'm sure you meant to add), won't work if the center pivot is still clicked in place. Did I mention how much I hate pulling these mirrors apart lol? I've delved pretty far into fixing these in the past, but when you have a huge parts supply, just swapping in a problem free mirror is always the easy way out.

FYI, Photobucket shouldn't actually remove your images, they will just disable 3rd party linking (they probably have already). Check the forum's notice\issues section, there is a thread with a link to a chrome plugin that keeps them working (which is why I can see them).

Another FYI, there are actually 3 types of mirrors the north american Supras came with. The 85/86 mirrors added a heater element and a little different inside too as I recall.
 
#11 ·
I've delved pretty far into fixing these in the past, but when you have a huge parts supply, just swapping in a problem free mirror is always the easy way out.
Are you saying YOU have a huge parts supply? Or you know where one is. I would love to just buy the dang mirror glass with the screws attached to fix this, or just buy the entire mirror assy. I'm gonna try this nylon screw thing here soon if I can't find anything. But, I really don't have the time for it.
 
#12 ·
I've owned 20 Supras over the years, I may (or may not?) have stashed stuff away for future repairs. I used to sell parts here quite a bit, but I've become jaded about parting cars to be honest. The amount of time it takes to complete a sale is really not worth the price you can charge so I generally don't bother with it. THEN I had a kid lol.

I do have an oversupply of a few bits I need to liquidate at some point, but I do not have the time to deal with that stuff right now.
 
#13 ·
I am attempting to repair a set of mirrors sourced from a salvage yard. One had a broken "adjustment screw", the one that goes through the gear and attaches to the back of the mirror. I attempted to glue it back together with DAP "RAPIDFUSE", but it was so brittle that I would no sooner glue one piece on and then another piece would break off. So I decided to replace them as described by Aero. He said that he cut them to 25 mm length. The originals are 26 mm, so he was real close, and that length should work. I found a pack of 10 M8X1.25 by 50 mm long from Granger, item number 253264104373. I'll report on any success when they arrive. Bob
 
#14 ·
I had both adjustment screws break on my passenger mirror. Something to note is they are hollow in the middle. I drilled through the top of the piece after it was out and drilled the bottom piece that was still in the mirror. By drill I mean had a drill bit in my hand and rotated it. The stuff is soft/brittle. I cut the wood screw to length and had to decrease the diameter of the head. Put the wood screw through the adjustment screw and into the base with JB weld on the wood screw threads just for good measure. They worked for the first few adjustments so far. I am the only one to drive the car so I don't think any more adjustments will be made but they still are needed to hold the position.
 
#15 ·
"The next problem is how to attach it to the mirror. The attachment point on the back of the mirror is not securely attached but is loose, it moves around a little. I am not an engineer but I had to believe it was designed that way for a reason."

Aero is correct in that the screws need to be free to move where they attach to the back of the mirror because as the mirror is adjusted, the angle of the screw to the back of the mirror changes slightly. The originals snap into a sort of ball and socket joint, but become brittle over time and break off. I plan to use screws that have a counter sunk head with Aero's idea of using thin flashing material to hold them in place, but I will counter sink the hole so that the end of the screw is free to swivel.

I also noted that the originals are hollow, and was going to do something similar to what Darrow described, but as I said the parts that I was starting with were so brittle that as soon as I attempted to insert the dowel inside, pieces began to break off. I would glue one piece back on and it would just break at another spot. So I gave up and decided to use Aero's method. I will supply photos if the idea works and I can figure how to upload photos.
 
#18 · (Edited)
Yes, the one I have on my wife's 84 is actually the one you mention.

Auto part Gas Automotive window part

Murakami 1984 3-Pin, 3-Connector Passenger Mirror
87910-14710 MOTOR TYPE, MURAKAMI (08/1983 - 07/1984) You can see the Murakami logo highlighted in green.

You can see the spring mount where it has come loose from the shell.
My wife bumped into the mirror from the front and the retainer screw (yellow) pulled out of the mirror shell (red).
It got me to thinking that the spring tension seems extremely high for this part. It doesn't let the mirror shell fold back like it was designed to do, especially on 34 year old crystallized plastic mirror shells.

I am trying to find the spring tension of this spring. The initial tension seems to be about 20 lb. which seems quite high. I am going to see if a lower initial tension would still prevent the mirror from moving around while letting the mirror spring back more readily. I would really prefer not to break another mirror shell.

Dale
 
#19 · (Edited)
The factory spring is around 80 lb per inch (this is enormous for a door mirror) and measures 1/2" OD and just over 4" long between the inside of the hooks.

I am actually repairing the mirrors on my car right now (the drivers side has a cracked housing so I need a replacement), the passenger side is ok but the screws are pulled out like yours (I plan to JB weld the plastic screw mounts back and build up some more JB around them to help reinforce). I plan to get all the hardware (including the hinge) replated, and get the housings painted with proper automotive paint, gloss black.

I found a good site for better springs, I'm thinking these stainless steel ones will work well (very close to stock dimensions, a little shorter. Also stainless steel and only 12 lb/in): https://www.thespringstore.com/pe075-500-43000-sst-4000-co-n-in.html

Ideally the spring will be just strong enough to keep the mirrors from rattling while you are driving. Using a slightly shorter spring than stock (4" vs around 4.125") will add a bit of preload too.
 
#21 ·
That's exactly what I was thinking of too. I think your choice of spring is about ideal.
I hauled out the old luggage scale and did some measurements on the spring I have and figure the following:

Initial Tension (lbs.): 23
Rate (lbs./inch): 18
Outer Diameter: 0.500”
Inner Diameter: 0.323”
Wire Diameter: 0.092”
Length Inside Hook: 4.15”
Total Coils: 33
End 1: Machine Hook
End 2: Extended Hook (almost a side hook, but end slightly elongated)

What I found interesting is that the first couple of times I measured the spring pressure to pull it to 1" it was 75-80 lbs. Then after cycling it a few times, the rate dropped quite dramatically to 41 lbs. I guess the rust that you can see on mine causes the coils to bind a lot more.
I don't know if I'm calculating it correctly, but the rate is calculated by subtracting the pressure in lbs. to pull it to 1 inch(ish) from the pressure required to just get the coils to start to separate which is the Initial tension. So the 18 lbs/inch rate is on top of the 23 lbs. initial tension.

I like your decision to choose a 4 inch spring so that when mounted it will have slightly more initial tension than the 2 lbs. initial tension.
The only thing not perfect is that on my mirror one of the spring ends is a side hook rather than the centered machine hook. Oh well.

One thing I am going to do right now is to gently move the mirror on the driver side back and forth to try to break any rust free so it won't hang up the mirror if it gets bumped.

Very interesting work funky!
 
#20 ·
If you take that spring off I highly doubt you'll ever get it back together again. If you just want to patch a broken one together screw the base to the housing and eliminate the pivoting function. The warning would be that these are made to pivot so if you hit something the mirror breaks without damaging the door.
 
#23 ·
If you take that spring off I highly doubt you'll ever get it back together again.
This is a very good point. I am hoping that if one drops the spring loading significantly, one will be able to remount the spring.
Otherwise there will be much creative use of the Queen's English and spilled blood!

I'm out of town right now, but I noticed that the link bar that connects the spring to the door-side hinge has a hole that doesn't seem to have a use. I wonder if it is used to mount a rod that can be used to extend the spring enough to attach the link bar to the door side of the assembly. Otherwise I have nightmares about finger wrestling with the assembly line workers who originally manufactured these parts. They would have to have fingers of high tensile steel to put these suckers together!

Coil spring Auto part Suspension Screw

See the highlighted hole in the link bar. Perhaps this can be used to pull the link bar to the left so the screw hinge pin can be inserted to capture the left side of the link bar.

Just a thought.

Dale
 
#22 · (Edited)
You are correct on the rate - it would be the weight required per inch once the initial preload is overcome. All that being said, 41 pounds including the preload to get to 1 inch (or even just the 18 lb/in rate) is pretty excessive. I am hoping that the 12 lb/in stainless spring (with 2 lb preload) will be enough to keep the mirror solid even with some aerodynamic load. The factory spring when it is installed in the mirror is stretched a bit, maybe to around 4.25" total - so the 4" spring at 12 lb/in and 2 lb preload should have 5 lb of force when installed.

I might also order a pair of the music wire springs https://www.thespringstore.com/pe075-500-45334-mw-4000-mh-n-in.html - they have a 14lb/in rate and 7 lb initial tension (all other dimensions the same but with MH ends, which isn't a big deal). This would give around 10.5 lb of initial force (still way less than the factory springs at around 25 lb including initial load when extended to 4.25")
 
#25 ·
Yes aerodynamic load is key. I think you guys might be going too low on spring pressure, these will probably bow in a lo at like 160kmph etc.
You know Fiend, I can just see you saying that so I'll be on the hood at 160 holding the darned thing up in the air to see if it flutters!

That's actually a good point. At rest it seems overkill, but at 160 or even lower if there is suspension jounce, it certainly could flutter. I never really thought of that.
 
#27 ·
I get that, which is why I am going to try the other springs that have around 10 lb of initial tension when installed. As compared to newer cars like my MR2 and the Subaru where the folding action of the mirrors is manual, but not spring loaded (there is a detent for it in both positions) which are actually quite easy to fold in, this should be plenty. An extremely back-of-the-envelope calculation (based on a flat surface at 90 degrees to the airflow direction and the same size as the front face of the mirror, so worst case) puts 24 lb of force on the entire mirror at 300 km/hr. With at least half the load being applied at the hinge, and the angle of the mirror (plus any shrouding of the airflow provided by the body of the vehicle) this should be quite a bit less at the outer edge of the mirror.

In fact, the spring 'mounts' were broken off the inside of the passenger side mirror on my car for a long time, making it much easier to fold the mirror (the spring had almost no pre-tension as it was relying on the spring 'support' jamming between the mirror housing and adjustment motor assembly to keep it somewhat in place) and I didn't notice any major issues.

I have always notice that the 'folding' action of the mk2 mirrors is CRAZY stiff compare to any other vehicle, especially considering how tiny the mirrors are. Going from 25 lb of initial tension to 10 lb will make it a lot more reasonable. Even 5lb from the SS spring might be enough.
 
#28 ·
Ya just had to math it lol. Good for you, cd is pretty easy to calculate actually for flat surfaces.

Yeah I've done a lot of fiddling with area bits on the front of these cars, hoods etc, and I've had my fair share of issues at speed so I think about this. One of these days, I'm going to finish my XX mirrors....
 
#30 ·
Got my mirrors put back together yesterday. Had the housings sprayed gloss black, all the hardware re-plated and lubricated the hinges with white lithium grease. Cleaned up the motors and glass - these mirrors (Murikami with the screw in the bottom) don't normally have the issue with the threaded adjusters that the other style do. These are 3 wire non-heated mirrors.

I used these springs: https://www.thespringstore.com/pe075-500-45334-mw-4000-mh-n-in.html to reduce the preload on the mirror folding, but leaving enough to keep them from moving at high speed. It also made the mirrors much easier to assemble, and should prevent issues with damage to the spring mounting holes inside the mirror. I repaired and reinforced the spring mounting holes using ABS cement and then some JB plastic weld putty. I also filed down the mounting hole that is closer to the inboard, folding side of the mirror a bit so that the metal spring holder will rest against the plastic 'ledge' instead of pulling sideways on the screws.

Here are all the parts laid out on a soft towel - when assembling all the right hand mirror parts have a R on them somewhere so you don't get mixed up (and L for left hand mirror parts).
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1JRmBrbMqHeEB7O8lJdapgEWNHeLJAgpq

This is the hinge installed to the mirror 'base' using 2 of the 6 large screws - I only cleaned up the parts that are visible externally.
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1wMyjvQgKIE1zm6UBy8HmYcjUcfnVGt8Z

Next step is to attach the mirror housing to the other side of the hinge with 2 more of the 6 large screws - I suggest keeping the screws slightly loose so you can adjust the alignment of the housing to the base. Any of these screws that go into plastic DO NOT overtighten them. Check the hinge action between the housing and base.
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1UQDvSecDLgG4xNHFkj1BL289_Y1eMM-r
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1Z6fGu3PhDggcmDUIv_p4rigNvhFj8Til

Now, using the small machine screw, install the linkage to the mirror base, and then hook one end of the spring down through the other hole in the linkage from the top, running the spring through the 'top' hole in the mirror housing into the cavity behind where the mirror glass will be.
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1byx_47zSxSMwi9qiS1O7uuVfHS0uf0jx
https://drive.google.com/open?id=12SZcDLc-rlSZgiM8iSJF9Fs3487AvWh0

Lay the mirror down on its back, holding the spring to make sure it stays hooked into the linkage. Then loop the other end of the spring onto the hook of the spring retainer, with the spring retainer end down inside the mirror housing (be careful not to scratch the external parts of the mirror housing). You can see where I reinforced the spring retainer mounting holes with JB plastic weld putty.
https://drive.google.com/open?id=12dDAMAIpeceMojrQCmRsnt_Mah7UFWRT
https://drive.google.com/open?id=16qGvRPdzvxFL6QSyxgkz6E_br8OMEDeu
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1ZuE-NpofJFBxWY5U3Jj8h1lr-xqbrUNk

You will want an extra set of hands for the next steps. Stretch the spring by pulling on the spring retainer, and rest the edge of the retainer next to the inner mounting hole against the plastic shoulder/ledge that is just inboard of the inner spring retainer mounting hole on the mirror housing. Keeping it against this ledge, slowly lay the retainer down so the 2 screw holes line up with the mounting holes in the housing - all of the tension of the spring should be held by the retainer resting up against the plastic shoulder/ledge which will keep the side load off the screws and prevent the mounting holes in the plastic housing from cracking. Install the last 2 of the 6 large screws to secure the retainer and again DO NOT overtighten.
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1PmkS9PtxOn1XY_QxwH_8O9mx6cI412wX
https://drive.google.com/open?id=10YfI0LfmQoyiAYS-zxfLsxkrvl8DOquk

Now you will be able to test the folding action of the mirror - it should be held securely, but spring back relatively easily and snap back to the original position. Do not try to 'see how far it will go' as this puts a lot of stress on the housing.
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1Y5NvlC2OfR7abcYvLdW22y_86DRMRNP5

The last step is to slide the glass assembly back in while feeding the wiring through the hole below the spring in the mirror housing and out the hole in the mirror base - it might need some gentle coaxing to go in all the way and align the screw hole in the bottom with the hole in the mirror housing. Secure with the last remaining screw, which should be the small one with the countersunk head.
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1eYHynmL80JeFXlegYxSU_srMcVGRhTee
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1HzVSYR0bQskl56Eiz8ntzV8rBhNMSljQ

Finally, install the rubber grommet over the wiring hole on the inner side of the mirror base, making sure it seals around the wiring and mounting area properly.
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1ouJiYE5LlFgb99FuZwUm4yVbyoWsdT-I


That's it - you can now install the mirror back on the car and test the motorized adjustment. I hope this is helpful to people rebuilding the Murikami style mirrors (which I believe are superior to the other ones as they do not suffer the same issues with the adjustment screws decaying and cracking apart). It is easy to identify which ones you have as the Murikami ones have that one visible screw in the bottom of the mirror that you can see when the mirror is installed on the car.
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1HzVSYR0bQskl56Eiz8ntzV8rBhNMSljQ
 
#33 ·
Had the housings sprayed gloss black, all the hardware re-plated and lubricated the hinges with white lithium grease.
Where did you have the hardware plated and what material is it plated with? What does something like this cost?

The results look fabulous!

Dale
 
#34 ·
For the minimum order qty, I just ordered 6 springs. Will be rebuilding the mirrors on Tara's car the same way, and having a couple extras can't hurt.

The plating is just a basic nickel plate - there is a place in town here called Alberta Plating that did it for $70 CDN (both sides, all the hardware and hinges etc. that you see there). I tend to plate any hardware like this that lives on the outside of the car, if I can't replace it with stainless steel. Excepting stuff in the engine bay, of course. When they plate the hinge, the inside parts don't get fully plated so you need to lubricate well with lithium grease before reassembly.
 
#37 ·
Thanks for the reply.

Guess I'll have a few "extra" springs, then.

I was just going to leave them out, but since a lighter spring has been found, I'll repalce them like you did.

Great work rebuilding the mirrors!

- Jim
 
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