ROH Snyper GB Hub Rings

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\r\n ROH Snyper GB Hub Rings\r\n

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\r\n I\'m fitting the ROH Snyper group buy wheels to my Cressida wagon and I\'m wondering if anybody knows what the inner/outer diameters of the included hub rings were. Or if you have any other info that would help me procure these!\r\n
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1981 Celica Supra - 5ME
\r\n1981 Celica Supra - 5MTE
\r\n1985 Cressida Wagon - 5MGE
\r\n1981 Kawasaki KZ1100
\r\n1995 GMC Jimmy
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    \r\n I\'m in the same boat. I bought them used and don\'t have them as well.\r\n
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    Black \'86 6MGE 5spd W58
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    \r\n Go to Harbor Freight and buy one of their "$20" digital calipers. Measure the bore in the rim, and the hub diameter, and you\'ll have the numbers you need to buy the rings.
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    \nI bought mine from Next Level Motoring because they had a huge assortment of them in stock, but eBay or Amazon should have them, too.
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    \nFor $20, there\'s really no reason to NOT own a digital caliper. I\'ve compared it to my Mitutoyo caliper, and it\'s spot-on.
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    \n- Jim\r\n
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    1985 5-speed "Ms. Swan"
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  • \r\n'; pd[1215769] = '\r\n
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    \r\n Yeah, I have a digital caliper but when I place it inside the rim the part that slides out hits the wall and makes it impossible to measure like that. I considered making a template out of something and measuring that but there isn\'t much room for error with this sort of thing. If I can find my old compass from my geometry set, that might work... My measurement on the hub was 60mm.\r\n
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    1981 Celica Supra - 5ME
    \r\n1981 Celica Supra - 5MTE
    \r\n1985 Cressida Wagon - 5MGE
    \r\n1981 Kawasaki KZ1100
    \r\n1995 GMC Jimmy
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  • \r\n'; pd[1215793] = '\r\n
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    \r\n OOPS!
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    \nNever considered it could be a difficult measurement to make!\r\n
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    1985 5-speed "Ms. Swan"
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  • \r\n'; pd[1215809] = '\r\n
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    \r\n Our hubs are 60.1 mm OD. I\'m pretty sure that Cressida ones are as well. It\'s a common Toyota size. I would be surprised if they didn\'t fit as they are. But if you don\'t have the ones that were furnished with the wheels initially, you could contact the manufacturer for this information. Should the ones you have not have the correct ID, just measure the OD of the hub rings you already have. The proper ones will have that same OD and 60.1 mm ID\'s.
    \r\nThere\'s only certain sizes that the ID of aftermarket wheels are. If you have to, measure your wheels ID as closely as you can by extending the calipers as little as possible into the wheels, the proper hub rings should be whatever OD is very slightly larger than your measurement.
    \r\nAnd don\'t foolishly think that metal ones are a better choice than plastic. These only really help position the wheels when they\'re being installed and don\'t have anything to do with maintaining proper centering once the lugs are properly tightened. Metal ones can and sometimes do become nearly permanently fused in place due to galvanic action over time. You don\'t want to have to chisel one off beside the road on a dark rainy night, someplace you\'d rather not be anytime in your future, do you?\r\n
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    \r\n \r\n Last edited by ray85p; 04-18-2017 at 11:08 PM.\r\n \r\n \r\n
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  • \r\n'; pd[1215817] = '\r\n
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    \r\n Ray, I don\'t have any hub rings currently. Unless I am misunderstanding something, I am new to the aftermarket wheel world.
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    \r\n \r\n If you have to, measure your wheels ID as closely as you can by extending the calipers as little as possible into the wheels, the proper hub rings should be whatever OD is very slightly larger than your measurement.\r\n \r\n
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    Can you explain this like I\'m five? haha
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    \nAlso, from what I\'ve read so far on the hub ring topic, the rings are intended to take some load. But yes, I\'ve also read that it is possible to center the wheels with proper torquing techniques without the rings. I am mostly just trying to avoid any damage to the wheels. It seems like the stock wheels are hub AND lug centric because the lug nuts have the cylindrical collar that goes into the wheels. The ROH wheels use the cone shaped nuts.
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    \nI mounted the front wheels without rings but couldn\'t mount the backs because the driver side was hitting the muffler so I sawed that off and am currently trying to fit a 2.5" exhuast from a MKIII supra that I parted apart. Gotta figure out the over/under axel question though because the wagon is solid axle but the MKIII had the wishbone. Anyways, I digress.\r\n
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    1981 Celica Supra - 5ME
    \r\n1981 Celica Supra - 5MTE
    \r\n1985 Cressida Wagon - 5MGE
    \r\n1981 Kawasaki KZ1100
    \r\n1995 GMC Jimmy
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  • \r\n'; pd[1216065] = '\r\n
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    \r\n Virtually all OEM wheels are hub centric. Meaning that their hub center bores fit over the vehicles hubs virtually perfectly. They\'re not exactly the same size though. Generally, there\'s about 0.1 to 0.2mm clearance to allow for the different expansion rates of the different metals. This prevents the wheels from being harder to remove or install for example, when hot. This also prevents the wheels from becoming essentially welded in place over time due to galvanic action. Consider that flat tires aren\'t that common anymore (Excluding places with lots of potholes, which is nearly everywhere these days. But damage from pot holes is rarely confined to just the tires...) and that it\'s not unusual for a particular vehicle to go quite a few years between sets of tires. Imagine being stranded with a flat and not being able to remove the wheel after removing the lugs. WTF???? Picture an apparent whacko swinging a sledge hammer at their broken down vehicle beside the road trying to get a wheel off. Then later when they realize that they also destroyed a very expensive wheel too!!! Very funny unless it\'s you.
    \nConsidering that this clearance between the hub and wheel is always there, no part of the load could possibly be applied through the wheel to the hub center. And again that without this clearance, galvanic action over time can virtually weld the wheels to the hubs. This is why metal hub centric rings generally aren\'t a good idea either. They are appropriate under certain severe usage conditions though, such as racing where very frequent wheel changes, sometimes under extreme heat can easily damage plastic rings. But they would also very likely be inspected frequently under these conditions, preventing the welding in place problem.
    \nHub centric wheels are very easy to install and mount correctly. That\'s exactly why manufacturers use them. The shank style lugs that our OEM wheels use does not however, make this a lug centric system. Shank style lugs with a washer under their heads prevents damage to the wheels while providing a secure method of clamping them in place. Aluminum is much softer than steel. Steel conical lugs can easily damage aluminum conical seats. Aftermarket wheels generally use conical lugs because they\'re extremely common and therefore can be used with their products on nearly every vehicle.
    \nOur OEM lugs are unusual though in that they have conical ends. This is because some vehicles with OEM aluminum wheels came with steel spares. These lugs work for both thus eliminating the need for alternate lugs for the spare and thus prevents potential problems in this situation. They can also be used with many aftermarket wheels with conical lugs seats, provided the wheels are an appropriate thickness that the lugs have sufficient thread engagement, are deep enough to not bottom out on the studs and that they actually fit otherwise.
    \nSufficient thread engagement is generally considered to be 1.5x thread diameter which would be 18mm in this case. It can also be specified as a certain minimum number of turns before making contact which varies some with stud diameter.
    \nSo let\'s consider the market for aftermarket wheels. While many potential vehicles might have the same number of lugs in the same bolt circle as well as the same or similar offset requirements, can you imagine having to manufacture every offering with the proper hub sizes required for every application? No dealer would ever stock them all even if a manufacturer made them, which they don\'t and never have. So to cover virtually any potential application, aftermarket wheels are typically manufactured with a center hub opening large enough to cover all typical applications. Then hub centric rings are provided for the specific application. When purchasing a specific wheel directly from the manufacturer as well as most dealers, they would reference a database with all manufacturers vehicles to determine the hub OD for that specific vehicle. Obviously they already know the ID of the particular wheels and would stock many hub centric rings to match many common vehicles hub OD\'s.
    \nBut sometimes people purchase particular wheels for other applications or want to use OEM wheels from a different manufacturers vehicle and need to source uncommon sized hub rings. There are many sources for these.
    \nNow here\'s where the hub centric vs lug centric argument tends to go off the rails. Some folks argue that not all manufacturers use hub centric wheels. And, that it\'s (usually) possible to mount wheels correctly by carefully supporting them while snugging up the lugs to center the wheel and then torquing them to spec and not have any vibration issues. Therefore hub centric rings aren\'t (necessarily) required.
    \nThese are both true. But only very heavy duty or possibly very inexpensive vehicles are ever manufactured with lug centric wheels. And some vehicles are very prone to exhibiting noticeable and very annoying vibration with even the slightest off center mounting and / or lug tightening. Think high dollar performance vehicles here. Therefore most dealers always use hub centric rings to insure that every wheel is always mounted correctly to prevent customer problems, both initially and later should they be removed and reinstalled. It\'s also true that some vehicles aren\'t as sensitive to this. And sure, it is possible that a skilled person that knows what they\'re doing could mount most wheels properly on most vehicles without hub centric rings. But in most cases, it\'s simply not worth the few $\'s potentially saved.
    \nHub centric rings do not support any load once the wheel lugs are properly tightened. They simply make it easier to center while tightening them. Once properly torqued ALL wheels, including lug centric wheels are totally secured in place by the clamping force applied between the lugs and wheels. And considering that virtually no manufacturer makes any modern vehicles that aren\'t hub centric, the lug centric argument isn\'t going to come from them. They know better.
    \nThe bottom line is that hub centric rings are cheap and go a long way towards making mounting aftermarket wheels both very easy and virtually foolproof, just like OEM wheels are. Of course there are exceptions.
    \nSo either check with the wheel manufacturer or measure the hub opening as I stated earlier. Then order a set of hub centric rings with a 60.1mm ID and the required OD and you\'ll be set.
    \nI hope this explains this whole situation sufficiently for you. Yeah, it\'s a bit of a read as usual. But it\'s always better to know the whole story. It makes understanding any part of it and determining why and how easy vs having to remember any specific facts.\r\n
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    Join Date
    Aug 2013
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    Location
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    \r\n Bravo, Ray!
    \n
    \nThis should be a sticky over in the wheels and tires section....
    \n
    \n- Jim\r\n
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    1985 5-speed "Ms. Swan"
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    \r\nOH, What A Feeling!
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  • \r\n'; pd[1216153] = '\r\n
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    \r\n I should mention after reading that giant wall of text, that I have seen plastic hub rings get all melted from track use, as the hub and wheel can get very hot from dissipating heat from the brakes. I use metal hub rings exclusively, and a little coat of antiseize on the OD of the hub where the ring fits over on an all-weather driven vehicle is a good idea.\r\n
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    \'84 P-type, 5spd, torrid red, black/grey leather
    \r\nBuilt 7MGTE (JE\'s, ARP studs, MHG), BOSS STG4 60mm, AEM standalone, R154, 2 1/2" IC and 3" turbo back - the works
    \r\nCoilovers, ROH wheels, 4 corner BBK, Konis, ADDCO bars, PST bushings etc. etc.
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  • \r\n'; pd[1216161] = '\r\n
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    Join Date
    Aug 2011
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    \r\n Thanks Dr. Jim. I\'m fine not being sticky at the moment. Maybe later big boy.....
    \nI did in fact mention that metal rings are a good choice for severe duty use such as racing due to the extreme heat and because they\'re likely to be inspected regularly.....\r\n
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  • \r\n'; pd[1216169] = '\r\n
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    \r\n I bought the metal ones for my XXR rims at the same time I bought the rims, lugs, and locks.
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    \nI used a dab of antisieze as Ray recommends as I\'ve had things weld themselves together in the past.....\r\n
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    1985 5-speed "Ms. Swan"
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  • \r\n'; pd[1216201] = '\r\n
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    \r\n That was an amazing post ray, thanks for the explanation. That makes sense.
    \n
    \nThe manufacturer got back to me and said "We had several different center bore sizes available back then. You will need to measure with a vernier ideally, there is a good chance they are 76.1mm"\r\n
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    \r\n1981 Celica Supra - 5MTE
    \r\n1985 Cressida Wagon - 5MGE
    \r\n1981 Kawasaki KZ1100
    \r\n1995 GMC Jimmy
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  • \r\n'; pd[1216289] = '\r\n
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    \r\n Well then, with their most likely guesstimate in hand, try the method I suggested of inserting the small ID measuring "wings" of your caliper as little as possible into your wheel hub and move it around to be sure you\'re measuring as close to the maximum ID as possible. If you get reasonably close to that value, go with it. Note to self: Look up a reasonably close value for reasonable.
    \nThe reason I suggested inserting the caliper the minimum amount possible is because it\'s common for them to be tapered. Therefore, the deeper it\'s inserted, the farther down the taper you\'ll be measuring. As their spec\'d to the maximum ID which is the outermost end, that\'ll give you the best measurement. This also works if the hub bore isn\'t tapered.
    \nAlso, the exact values for these rings can vary depending on who\'s got the sharpest pencil. So a listing with a spec of xx.06 vs another manufacturers spec of xx.1 and possibly even anothers of xx.0 are very likely exactly the same items.
    \nA final suggestion if you haven\'t already done this is to get in touch with the manufacturer again and ask the same question but give them every spec for your exact wheels. Diameter, width, offset, bolt pattern, and anything else. Some wheels have different hub sizes within the same wheel type and size that differs with these other items.
    \nThe style of AR wheels I have vary like this. There\'s quite a few different center cap sizes and there\'s also different styles depending on the size as well. So ordering the correct replacements required all this info. These insert from the back side of the wheel and hub centric rings for them fit inside the center caps. Sounds like a PITA. Works like a champ.\r\n
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  • \r\n'; pd[1216473] = '\r\n
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    \r\n Buy a "telescoping gauge". Cheap ones at harbor freight;
    \n
    \nhttp://www.harborfreight.com/6-piece...-set-5649.html
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    \nStick it in the hole lock it an the right size and use your caliper to measure it.\r\n
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  • \r\n'; pd[1216489] = '\r\n
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    \r\n Didn\'t know Harbor Freight sold those.
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  • \r\n'; // next/previous post info pn[1215625] = "1216489,1215649"; pn[0] = ",1215625"; pn[1215649] = "1215625,1215729"; pn[1215729] = "1215649,1215769"; pn[1215769] = "1215729,1215793"; pn[1215793] = "1215769,1215809"; pn[1215809] = "1215793,1215817"; pn[1215817] = "1215809,1216065"; pn[1216065] = "1215817,1216145"; pn[1216145] = "1216065,1216153"; pn[1216153] = "1216145,1216161"; pn[1216161] = "1216153,1216169"; pn[1216169] = "1216161,1216201"; pn[1216201] = "1216169,1216289"; pn[1216289] = "1216201,1216473"; pn[1216473] = "1216289,1216489"; pn[1216489] = "1216473,1215625"; // cached usernames pu[0] = guestphrase; pu[7637] = "Ugo"; pu[912] = "Darrow"; pu[19272] = "drjim"; pu[16042] = "ray85p"; pu[1311] = "Funkycheeze"; pu[10] = "SilverMk2"; // -->

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    1. #11
      CelicaSupra.com Member
      Join Date
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      Location
      Arlington, WA
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      Thanks Dr. Jim. I'm fine not being sticky at the moment. Maybe later big boy.....
      I did in fact mention that metal rings are a good choice for severe duty use such as racing due to the extreme heat and because they're likely to be inspected regularly.....

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