WEIRD: cranks OK,A no-start issue today.For over an hour,to cool down. - Page 2

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  1. #11
    CelicaSupra.com Member ddd228's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SupraScooby View Post
    This may not help at all... but I have had two separate failures like yours in the last year in my '68 Mustang and '77 Ford pickup. Both were primary wiring failures. On the Mustang, the wire from the negative (distributor) coil terminal to the points in side the distributor had blown back and forth in the wind on a high-speed road trip enough times where it finally was down to only a handful of strands. Backfires, no-starts, and died if the gas pedal was pushed much past idle. On the truck, the ignition pickup inside the distributor failed after 35 years. It would start when cold, but would fail as soon as the engine heated up. Call the tow truck, try and try to start, and as soon as it got cool it would start again and then run another couple miles and then fail again, feeling like it had run out of gas. Oh yeah- I almost forgot - also had a drop-dead failure on the '85 Supra driving cross-country: the dist. cap-to-coil wire failed after waving back and forth in the wind (actually broke in half). I had to cut up the #2 spark-plug wire to sub for the coil wire and get to the next town.

    That probably didn't help, but at least some food for thought, Good luck!
    That is a WEIRD failure for the Mustang!!!!!It must have taken a while to find the problem.
    I have replaced a lot of ignition pick up coils on Ford and G.M. cars. I made a coil/plug wire with some speaker wire or 12 G. house wire,once.

    Ray85p suggests that when the FP gets hot,it won't run. Hmmmm. Hey,I'll bet that shaking the car will stir up the fuel in the tank and cool the pump! Shaking the car from side to side and/or standing on the hatch and jumping up and down.
    "What the HELL are you doing,Dave?"
    Dave in Seattle. I keep LATE hours.Hidden Content
    '84 type "L" ,Auto ,daily driver. Dk blue.

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  3. #12
    CelicaSupra.com Member ddd228's Avatar
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    If I need to replace the fuel pump,so be it.
    I REALLY want to cut an access hole in the hatch floor to make it a lot easier!
    I would drop the tank about 2" and use a muffler cutter to make a small hole and go from there.Make a patch from aluminum and seal the hole after the pump replacement.

    Has anyone done this?

    I could use Riv nuts or short sheet metal screws or even pop rivets.
    I'll guess that the access hole has to be about a foot in diameter.
    Dave in Seattle. I keep LATE hours.Hidden Content
    '84 type "L" ,Auto ,daily driver. Dk blue.

  4. #13
    CelicaSupra.com Member gamble's Avatar
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    Yep, somewhere in the lemons racer build thread you can see pics of an access hole cut for a fuel pump.

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  6. #14
    CelicaSupra.com Member ddd228's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gamble View Post
    Yep, somewhere in the lemons racer build thread you can see pics of an access hole cut for a fuel pump.
    Thanks,Gamble. I'll go digging.
    Found:
    http://www.celicasupra.com/forums/sh...ess#post830417
    I'm not afraid to hack up my Supra.
    Last edited by ddd228; 06-17-2017 at 07:08 PM. Reason: LINK.
    Dave in Seattle. I keep LATE hours.Hidden Content
    '84 type "L" ,Auto ,daily driver. Dk blue.

  7. #15
    CelicaSupra.com Member ddd228's Avatar
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    I cut the hole!Took me 2 hours of careful cutting.
    This will make it a 1 hour job. ROB,look away,now!
    I used a cut of wheel and a stubby hack saw and I think that I can snake the old one out and the new one in with my access hole. It looks like Peter's hole cutout is a little different than mine!

    With the tank still in the car,it's a sketchy deal!Sparks flying around a fuel tank!!!!!
    I'll need to bolt the replacement plate in solidly to make up for the extra "frame" flex. Uni bodies don't like this type of violation.I'll make up for the surgery after the fuel pump is installed. I promise.
    I'll have the new pump to carry around for a while until it REALLY takes a shit.No "sock" yet.

    If you go slowly,you won't get into the fuel tank and/or slice your fingers or any wires.
    3 years on a NAPA pump is OK.maybe 10 years on the :

    http://www.ebay.com/itm/132197268156...%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
    Will be fine!!!!!!

    I'm not afraid to hack into my Supra to make my life easier. This MOD should have been done at the factory,like so many other cars.
    I'm very sorry that I made you cry,Rob. So many other owners will cringe at this as well.
    My car,my time,my ideas,usually. NOT this time REV HAPPY.
    Dave in Seattle. I keep LATE hours.Hidden Content
    '84 type "L" ,Auto ,daily driver. Dk blue.

  8. #16
    CelicaSupra.com Member Khlause's Avatar
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    So was just a fuel pump? Did you ever check out that relay you mentioned was hot?

    Also consider replacing the fuel filter; bad filters kill pumps.

  9. #17
    CelicaSupra.com Member ddd228's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Khlause View Post
    So was just a fuel pump? Did you ever check out that relay you mentioned was hot?

    Also consider replacing the fuel filter; bad filters kill pumps.
    NAW,I'm scheduling a day for it later. It got me on a 50 mile round trip on Monday. It's just a turd when it gets hot. Hell.I' I'm a turd for not replacing it right away.

    The 2 round relays under the box gets to 140*. EFI and main.Maybe the pump is an amp hog now
    I loathe changing the filter. A LOT. It was new 2 years ago.The tank is clean.
    Dave in Seattle. I keep LATE hours.Hidden Content
    '84 type "L" ,Auto ,daily driver. Dk blue.

  10. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by ddd228 View Post
    That is a WEIRD failure for the Mustang!!!!!It must have taken a while to find the problem.
    I have replaced a lot of ignition pick up coils on Ford and G.M. cars. I made a coil/plug wire with some speaker wire or 12 G. house wire,once.

    Ray85p suggests that when the FP gets hot,it won't run. Hmmmm. Hey,I'll bet that shaking the car will stir up the fuel in the tank and cool the pump! Shaking the car from side to side and/or standing on the hatch and jumping up and down.
    "What the HELL are you doing,Dave?"
    Just a warning in advance - this is WAAAAAy off-topic, but maybe it can "spark" some helpful thought....

    Oh you want weird???/ I completely forgot the whole kicker to the Mustang story, which kicked it up another notch:

    Sounds like you're pretty handy with wires!

    How 'bout this?: The '68 Mustang primary wire DID fail, but that wasn't the fatal problem! I haven't even told you about the desert expanses throughout which I pulled out the toolkit, disassembled the carb and changed the float setting 6 times, lower and lower, in 30 miles over 6 hours, working the wrong problem because I knew I had a foam float with a pinhole gradually sinking, meanwhile LOUD backfires exploding for 30 miles near every farmhouse I was near as I over and over suspiciously pulled off a remote desert highway to take the carb apart yet again in someone's 1/2-mile long driveway or on the shoulder with dust devils and semis whipping past..... never suspecting that with each carb disassembly I'm hitting the distributor wire over and over, each time snapping another strand or two and unwittingly making the car run ever worse...doing the last 5 miles into a small high-desert town at 25 mph on the shoulder working the gas pedal like there's an egg under my shoe because anything faster ignites massive explosions under the air cleaner.... and then reaching the edge of town and it finally dying completely late at night on the fringes of a small town and the homeless guy living in a $75,000 beemer with all his possessions inside who pulls up on me with his brights and accosts me while I was under the hood in the dark, head in the carb and flashlight in my mouth in a strong wind trying not to lose the E-clips- and said he was called by the spirit to help me and would not leave me alone- - WOULD NOT - I was tired and against all my judgment, helped by the expensive car, I got in and before long I realized that I had just made a horrible mistake - all his possessions were inside the car and he was acting manic, and then he told me he indeed was schizophrenic and on drugs but he lost the drugs and he got out of jail two weeks before and he's been in town for a week and then I'm trapped in his car and he takes me on a bizarre night-time disturbed tour of trying to find an old Indian chief who has piles of old Chryslers I can take apart to find a carb float despite the fact that I had kept telling the homeless guy I was OK and my car was a Ford, but no the Chief knows everyone in town but I have to help the Chief out, hint, hint, and then the guy parks under a streetlight and whips out a cloth and randomly begins DETAILING HIS CAR. Yep detailing every single body panel with wax, at 10 p.m., with a tired, broken-down stranger at his mercy standing there watching him. Pretty soon I realize he's completely crazy and I left my protection in the car and I'm trying to GENTLY suggest he take me back to my car, but he's completely manic nuts. The only way to deal with this is to remain completely calm (while kicking myself). And so when we get to the Chief's house at 11 p.m., way back beyond the streetlights so I lose my bearings, he's driving through this rubble using his brights, I see like fifteen junked and stripped Chryslers from the 60s-early 70s and wrecked trailers and all kind of destroyed farm equipment and junk you never imagined strewn everywhere across several acres like a disaster movie --- and the Chief isn't there but as soon as the Chief's son sees the homeless Beemer guy apparently trespassing he starts screaming at him and evicts him on the spot and tells him to start packing his stuff NOW and don't go ANYWHERE until his stuff is off the property, then the homeless guy tells me he'll rent me one of the crushed trailers for the night and he's going to cook me some of the Chief's bison because they slaughtered three of them that day but from what I can tell there is no Chief and no bison and there's no electricity anywhere around and at that point I'm just the caboose in the situation and realizing you couldn't write something this twisted....

    Oh yeah - what was wrong with the Mustang? After I pay the crazy homeless guy $50 to go away and drop me off at my car I walk a mile to the nearest gas station to get to a phone (mine is not working, of course), then call a tow truck to drag the 'Stang to the motel, then walk 3 miles, four times the next day between the motel and NAPA and it turned out that after I walked all over town begging for basic electrical connectors to repair the bad primary wire, by desperate plug-and-play diagnosis, that the ragged wire from the NEG coil terminal to the points while waving in the wind had BLOWN OUT THE ONE-YEAR-OLD CONDENSER in the distributor by repeatedly shocking it with intermittent pulses.

    Pulled out the Blue Streak condenser that had been in a Ziploc in my trunk for 10 years and the 'Stang fired right up and no more backfires. THAT was the terminal failure, because it's hard to kill an old 'Stang. The motel owner had been watching me for hours as he worked on the pool, telling me about his '65 'Stang, and when it fired up strong he cheered and gave me a cold beer....

    Bar none, the worst nuisance automotive failure I ever encountered in my life (and this was last year).

    At least the Supra coil wire had the courtesy to completely break at the coil boot in the middle of nowhere and hang there in plain sight....

    Well, you said WEIRD - well you got it!!!!. .Five minutes into it I realized I deserved to be found in a ditch because THAT'S the ride I'll NEVER take again.

    Last edited by SupraScooby; 06-24-2017 at 12:26 AM.

  11. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by ddd228 View Post
    I cut the hole!Took me 2 hours of careful cutting.
    This will make it a 1 hour job. ROB,look away,now!
    I used a cut of wheel and a stubby hack saw and I think that I can snake the old one out and the new one in with my access hole. It looks like Peter's hole cutout is a little different than mine!

    With the tank still in the car,it's a sketchy deal!Sparks flying around a fuel tank!!!!!
    I'll need to bolt the replacement plate in solidly to make up for the extra "frame" flex. Uni bodies don't like this type of violation.I'll make up for the surgery after the fuel pump is installed. I promise.
    I'll have the new pump to carry around for a while until it REALLY takes a shit.No "sock" yet.

    If you go slowly,you won't get into the fuel tank and/or slice your fingers or any wires.
    3 years on a NAPA pump is OK.maybe 10 years on the :

    http://www.ebay.com/itm/132197268156...%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
    Will be fine!!!!!!

    I'm not afraid to hack into my Supra to make my life easier. This MOD should have been done at the factory,like so many other cars.
    I'm very sorry that I made you cry,Rob. So many other owners will cringe at this as well.
    My car,my time,my ideas,usually. NOT this time REV HAPPY.
    I admire your tenacity!!!!!!! Where there's a will - there's a WAY

  12. #20
    CelicaSupra.com Member ddd228's Avatar
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    Fuck 'en A, Scooby,that is a page out of a Hunter S. Thompson novel,that I know too well.
    A savage burn in the desert with a homeless psychotic person. DUUUDE,I have stories like that!
    Just one of your real-life nightmares that you lived through.
    I'll post my long story in anything goes.Seattle-Reno-Seattle.
    Thanks for sharing.
    Dave in Seattle. I keep LATE hours.Hidden Content
    '84 type "L" ,Auto ,daily driver. Dk blue.

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