Shift lever questions W58

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  1. #1
    Junior Member Daniel.W's Avatar
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    Shift lever questions W58

    Hello!

    I'm currently in the process of installing the bushings from BillyM and found some issues along the way.
    First when i took the lever out it really looked like crap inside with a lot of plastic "gravel" everywhere. I'm guessing that toyota did not put this there on purpose but that it rather comes from something that is now so destroyed and ground up that i cannot figure out what it originally was.

    What part has formed this gravel and is now missing? Is it an important part?
    This is what the insides looked like:


    The metal cup that is holding the spring is directly against the metal that screws on to the transmission. Maybe there is supposed to be some plastic bushing there?


    Would be really glad if someone could enlighten me a bit on how all this looks

    Also i tried to vacuum out all the plastic gravel but it looked a bit dirty down in the hole where shift linkage sits. Would it be possible for me to pour oil from the top and drain through the transmission and if so do you thing it is a good idea to do so?

    Would be thankful for any advice!

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  3. #2
    Boosting Mod SilverMk2's Avatar
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    It was the plastic bushing that's under the two dowel pin the shifter pivots on in the extension housing. It looks like you have half of yours left.

  4. #3
    Junior Member Daniel.W's Avatar
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    aha thanks! It was just the rubber thing left there below the dowel pins. Guess i'm okey then since i will just put the plastic bushing from BillyM:s kit there now
    It will be very interesting tomorrow when i put it together to see how it feels to shift! Damn thing has always been a little rough since i bought it some 16 years ago

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  6. #4
    CelicaSupra.com Member supraz's Avatar
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    Hi Daniel,



    This is what that gravel used to look like!

    http://www.celicasupra.com/forums/sh...ter&highlight=

    Dale
    Black 1983 P Type 5 Spd, Cloth Interior, BBK,HRE 17" Wheels, HKS Exhaust
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  7. #5
    Junior Member Daniel.W's Avatar
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    Wow that is a big piece of plastic! Looked just like that for me in the thread you linked
    I cleaned everything up and installed the bushings from BillyM :


    It made a HUGE difference! The car shifts way better now than it ever has I'm a dumbass for not fixing this earlier

  8. #6
    CelicaSupra.com Member drjim's Avatar
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    Yep, they sure do!

    When I took my car to get the wheel alignment checked, the service tech who drove it wanted to know what I did to the shifter.

    He said he'd never driven a Japanese car that shifted so well!
    1985 5-speed "Ms. Swan"

    OH, What A Feeling!

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    Wow, am I glad I saw this on the front page!
    I just now followed your link to go back to the 2015 thread which mentions the "billym" shift parts.

    Could I ask a couple questions here if you don't mind?

    My 160k mile '85 M/T has shifted like craap since my dad got it with 40K miles on it back in '93. The shift motion is crunchy and clunky, with at least 2 separate metallic clash points going into each gear. Nothing smooth about it. It honestly feels like I'm damaging something every time I shift, quickly or slowly, and it has, since 1993. Just an additional point: I have to mash the clutch pedal all the way to the carpet to minimize clashing (especially in Reverse), but I more than once have measured the clutch-pedal height & twice replace the master cylinder over the years and correctly set the rod, but this car has always shifted rough. I also recently tried installed some Ford trans fluid which was recommended here but no change.

    Could any of you reading this thread tell me if it sounds like maybe the above repair may help? I am interested in fixing this, especially as a Hemmings review spoke of the "delightful 'snick' as it changed gears....

    Thanks a bunch

  10. #8
    CelicaSupra.com Member drjim's Avatar
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    First off.....make sure the clutch is bled and properly adjusted! The fluid should be replaced, and if it looks like mud, your master and slave cylinders might be rusty/crummy/leaky inside.

    If the car has a lot of miles, you might want to do a preemptive strike and just go ahead and replace the master and slave (Rock Auto has them CHEEP!), and upgrade the rubber line to a teflon-lined braided stainless steel line from Raptor Racing.

    Then drain the lube from your trans and replace it. Clean the crud off the magnetic drain plug while you have it removed. You can use regular manual trans fluid, but I use Red Line synthetic in mine after having several people here recommend it. This is also the ideal time to install Billy's "Shiftgasm" kit because it's much easier to refill the trans from the top when you have the shift lever removed.

    These steps should make your tarns shift better. The clutch is one of those "gotchas". If it isn't FULLY releasing when you push the pedal, then the trans will "snag" when you shift unless you match the RPM perfectly.
    1985 5-speed "Ms. Swan"

    OH, What A Feeling!

  11. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by drjim View Post
    First off.....make sure the clutch is bled and properly adjusted! The fluid should be replaced, and if it looks like mud, your master and slave cylinders might be rusty/crummy/leaky inside.

    If the car has a lot of miles, you might want to do a preemptive strike and just go ahead and replace the master and slave (Rock Auto has them CHEEP!), and upgrade the rubber line to a teflon-lined braided stainless steel line from Raptor Racing.

    Then drain the lube from your trans and replace it. Clean the crud off the magnetic drain plug while you have it removed. You can use regular manual trans fluid, but I use Red Line synthetic in mine after having several people here recommend it. This is also the ideal time to install Billy's "Shiftgasm" kit because it's much easier to refill the trans from the top when you have the shift lever removed.

    These steps should make your tarns shift better. The clutch is one of those "gotchas". If it isn't FULLY releasing when you push the pedal, then the trans will "snag" when you shift unless you match the RPM perfectly.
    Thanks for the reply, DrJim.

    I'm still stumped with the "crunchy" shifting on my '85. To put a finer point on it, it's the shifter itself that seems "crunchy" as it forces its way into the next gear.
    I've done every one of your suggestions: Master and slave multiple times, brand-new clutch hose (though not braided), checked adjustment on push-rod and clutch-pedal height, drained trans fluid, replaced with recommended Ford synthetic fluid (can't remember which one at this moment).

    I will say that the clutch is original on a 160K-mile car. Even when I was test-driving it before purchase at 40K miles, you had to push the clutch pedal all the way to the floorboard to get a clean shift. Also, at hard acceleration there always was and still is a weird loud spinning roar in a downward falling musical pitch while and after pushing the clutch pedal in when changing from 3rd to 4th and from 4th to 5th gear. It's like you have to wait a bit for something to spin down or catch up with itself before moving the shift lever to the next gear. It's the only stickshift car I ever drove like that. Clutch action has always seemed slow.

    The only way to have the gearshift not be "crunchy" is to bury the clutch pedal deep into the carpet and shift really slowly. As in- no racing or quick shifts - only grandpa shifts. I'm wondering if the clutch has been bad since Dad bought the car in 1993....

    Or maybe it is the shifter bushings? I watched a YouTube video tonight where someone filmed before and after shots of gearshift play, installing the bushing kit, and I have to say that the play on mine is not bad at all and seems to match that of the FIXED gearshift in the video...
    Good info here.

  12. #10
    CelicaSupra.com Member
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    Knowing your cars history since '93 and 40K miles is very good. But it's still possible that clutch work (and more) was done before that. It's also possible that the clutch could have always been bad, but I seriously doubt it. And from your description of the problem, it doesn't sound to me like it's a transmission or shifter problem.
    I agree with Dr. Jim as usual (we're twin sons of different mothers) in that it sounds like your clutch isn't FULLY releasing unless the pedal is right on the floor. Replacing both clutch cylinders, the line, bleeding the system and verifying your pedal height and free play multiple times should rule all of that stuff out. So what's left?
    Many of us use Red Line MT-90 in our trans' because it just works better than anything else. Most folks claim noticeably smoother shifts with it. But any appropriate fluid should be fine.
    Ruling out all of the above means that it's time to get serious (dirty) and actually check the complete clutch system out. There's lots of possibilities. The clutch disc could be binding on the transmission input shaft. The splines should be lightly greased to prevent this. If it's binding, there could still be sufficient contact between either the flywheel or pressure plate to essentially keep it partially engaged until the pedal is FULLY depressed and there's enough clearance between the two to allow the clutch disc to free wheel.
    The clutch disc could also have enough runout (wobble) and/or the pilot bearing could be bad allowing the front of the trans input shaft to wobble. The trans input bearing could also be bad as could the pressure plate. Etc, etc, etc. Any of these could cause your problem as well.
    Also, the friction surface for the clutch on the flywheel IS NOT at the same height as the mounting surface for the pressure plate. There's a specific depth step required for the clutch to work correctly. If the clutch was replaced and the flywheel resurfaced, the depth of the step could be wrong if that also wasn't verified and the pressure plate mounting surface machined to match. This is a lot more common than it should be. Most machine shops just aren't what they used to be.
    As far as you (only) noticing noise shifting between the upper gears, that doesn't at all mean that it's relevant. Whatever noise there is virtually has to be happening all the time. But in lower gears there's lots more engine noise to mask it.
    The bottom line is that if you want to solve this, your best option is to simply get in there and replace all the clutch components and verify that everything is as it should be. And while you're at it, replace the rear main seal as well as both trans seals. A stock clutch is fine. But a 7M clutch or a Centerforce are nice upgrades. Hope this helps.
    Last edited by ray85p; 06-17-2017 at 08:15 AM.

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