Suprafiends Suspension (and Brake) Setup, incl never done before susp mods! - Page 20

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  1. #191
    CelicaSupra.com Member supra_toy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SupraFiend View Post
    ....I have another pass on my suspension planned for this winter. I will finally have to put together the long delayed replacement for this thread when its done.

    Can't wait to see it!
    "Betty" 85 Supra. LJM front strut bar, custom rear bar, Addcos sway f/r, Tokico f/r, Eibachs springs, and full PST bushing kit, Cusco camber plates, RC intake w/custom cold air & K&N filter, JK short shifter, MKIII 10 blade radiator fan, SS break lines, RC SS clutch line, Russel quick bleeders, custom stereo.
    "Karmen" 85 Supra. RC TB and intake. Bored out AFM, Magnaflow cat. soon new stock brake lines and muffler.
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  3. #192
    CelicaSupra.com Member williamb82's Avatar
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    Found this info for the balljoint taper. Seems the 5.7 degrees is the celica taper, where the supra taper is 6.3 degrees, or 1.3in taper per foot.

    http://wilbo666.pbworks.com/w/page/5...vs%20MZ1x-MA6x
    william
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  4. #193
    CelicaSupra.com Member SupraFiend's Avatar
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    Nice analysis there. He wasn't sure if the top of the struts on the Celica mount at different distances compared to the mz1x/ma6x/mx7x cars. I can confirm that they most likely are, as you certainly end up with less static camber then stock if you run ra6x steering arms and strut casings. Its close to 0deg, so you need camber plates as well to account for that. He does note that the ra6x LCA is shorter overall (balljoint to subframe mount bushing), so I'd say the strut towers on a celica are further in then on a mk2.
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  6. #194
    CelicaSupra.com Member
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    I believe that Wilbo's measurements for the Celica and Supra ball joint tapers introduce just enough potential variability that they aren't calculated exactly right. It's very difficult to accurately measure a taper and a very slight error in measurement and/or the height used to calculate the taper over can account for these differences and more. They are both 1.2"/' or 1:10 (5.71 degrees). There's 2 other relatively common tapers used mostly on American vehicles although there's just no way to be sure which years of what have which taper. They are 1.5"/' or 1:8 (7.15 degrees) and I can assure everyone that the Supra ball joints are definitely not this size, and 2"/' or 1:6 (9.56 degrees). There may be other relatively common automotive tapers that I'm not aware of, but it's not like there's lots of different ones. Unfortunately, the 1.5"/' reamer seemed to be right until it was too late to save the arms. This was costly which seriously pissed me off but the worst part was the year+ it took me to find another set!
    Incidentally, the 1:10, etc method of describing tapers is from how they're set up on a lathe. Besides these methods, reamers are also sold by the size and depth they're designed to be used for.
    We already know that the Celica ball joints are a smaller diameter than the Supra's. But there's also a difference in the thickness of the steering arms with the Celica arms not being quite as thick where the ball joint taper is. The end result is that if the Celica arms are reamed so that the small top end of the taper is the same size as the small end of the Supra's steering arms, the castle nut will tighten down fine just as it did before. But there may be a little space between the bottom of the steering arms and the ball joint boots. I replaced mine with nice new perky boots and everything fits fine. They weren't very expensive and Mark stocks them.
    If the Celica arms are reamed so that the larger bottom side of the taper is the same size as the bottom of the Supra arms, you'll likely need to add appropriately hardened washers under the castle nuts or they could be nearly below the cotter pin hole and could potentially loosen. Using hardened washers under castle nuts is common practice, especially with other than steel components to keep the nut from galling the surface. There's also different heights of castle nuts available to accommodate multiple vehicle applications although I never bothered to look into them.
    Just be absolutely sure that this kind of mod is done correctly as the consequences of it being improperly done could be serious or worse if a ball joint fails leading to suspension collapse and ........ Personally, I demand that all my wheels stay firmly attached and in my control. This isn't a clown car we're all driving here!
    I've installed the Celica struts and steering arms and I absolutely love the quicker steering. To me, it's how it always should have been. But I installed these to pull the front wheels back in just about exactly as far as the 5 lug, rotor over hub conversion moved them out and it does a fine job of that. The go-kart like steering that comes with it is an absolutely wonderful bonus! I can also confirm slightly less static camber with these compared to the Supra parts. But so far, it's not enough of a difference to warrant any other changes (yet).
    Anyone considering using these parts (or doing similar mods) should either find a reputable local shop to properly ream the Celica steering arms or purchase the proper spiral fluted reamer to do the job properly. XCut is the only place I was able to find one and they're in the US! Expect to pay a bit over $100. The cheap straight cut reamers tend to chatter even with careful hand use and just aren't worth using. I would have much preferred having this done locally. But when I checked with the only 4WD/off road specialist in my area, not only was their price ridiculous at $45 each minimum, but they foolishly brought out their reamers to show me. They were so far beyond trashed to the point that no reputable business should have ever used them, that they should have been scrapped.

  7. #195
    CelicaSupra.com Member SupraFiend's Avatar
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    The guy I used specialized in CNC work, his shop and tools were like new. Charged me 30 bucks total. But yeah, that will vary greatly depending on who you deal with. I did another 2 sets myself in a drill press with an iffy taper and they turned out pretty decent too, but I got lucky.
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