7M Oil Pump 5M Oil Pan???

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  1. #1
    is awesome kmfdmk's Avatar
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    7M Oil Pump 5M Oil Pan???

    I am doing a 7M-GTE buildup to put into my 85 P-type as can be seen elsewhere.

    Aaron with Driftmotion sells a 7M-GTE oil pump that has been re-spec'd to very tight tolerances, upgraded with better grade materials and also had its moving parts moly coated. The benefits are better pressure AND volume especially at lower RPM's. The issue is (other than the $325 for the pump) is that it is indeed a 7M-GTE pump and MID-SUMP. I know of no other tweaked & rebuilt pump that's for the 7M. I don't want to put in a 5M pump (because even if I get a new pump it's not a 7M-GTE pump) and I don't want to sacrifice my engine all in the name of saving a few bucks. Sure I could shim a 5M pump but that does nothing for low RPM flow rates.

    Now for the question.

    Is it possible to put a 7M Oil Pump into a 5M Oil Pan? Sure I understand the 7M is a MID-SUMP and the 5M pan is a FRONT-SUMP, however can you swap the bottom halves of the pumps?

    OR is it possible to cut/re-bend the pickup tube? Aaron was saying (Driftmotion.com Aaron) that he knows of one person that re-bent the pickup tube to fit in a Cressida pan, and another that actually cut and re-welded the pickup tube to fit. My concern is welding debris inside the pickup tube.

    Would brazing the tube be acceptable to withstand engine vibration & stresses? Or would actually welding it be the way to go?

    Lastly... Is there a specific reason for a fixed oil pickup? You would think that a floater/moving pickup (similar to the fuel pickups in Aerobatic aircraft) that would move with the inertia of the vehicle & oil would be even better. It would follow the oil as it moved around because it too would be allowed a bit of motion.

    Thanks in advance, and PS. Yes I *did* use the search button for about 20 minutes.

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  3. #2
    CelicaSupra.com Member pimptrizkit's Avatar
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    the "bottoms" dont fit.

    i tried.


    your more then welcome to come over and play with some of my old pump's.

    i have a 5m you brought to the machine shop, sevral 7m, and one 6m.

  4. #3
    CelicaSupra.com Member Donn29's Avatar
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    If everyone uses the 5M pump, and there is no other common choice, I don't see an issue. There are quite a few 7M-GTE'd MA60's out there!
    Current fun car: Black 86 with 7M-GTE/W58/3.58/TrueTrack, 300whp, 13.5@102.
    Wifeys Car: Burgundy 84 Auto and stock. Previous Daily: Two Tone Brown 84 Cressida: Sold and helped it get a 7M/W58 Swap
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  6. #4
    is awesome kmfdmk's Avatar
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    I spoke with Aaron @ Driftmotion and he informed me that he's seen two different installs using a Front Sump pan and a 7M-GTE pickup, one in a 400whp Cressida w/ Front Sump.

    Apparently what is required is either bending or preferably cutting and re-welding the pickup to the proper angle. This is what I am going to be doing with upgraded pump. Aaron was cool enough to ship me out an extra pickup and feed tube to make it all work together.

  7. #5
    CelicaSupra.com Member
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    Rusty, there are several swaps out there, with a modded 7mgte pump and pickup. IIRC Wade has this, and I know for sure, Reg Reimer's is that way, as are MANY of the swaps that were done, before CS.com existed.

    To help clear up some of the oil pump confusion.

    Back when Reg did his swap, he did an 82 car, and noticed the difference in pumps, so that was the prefered method, only known method.

    What we know now = 82-4 pumps are smaller than 85-8 5m front sump pumps. 7mge's for whatever godforsaken reason, in the MKIII, use the SMALLER pump also. 7mgte's have the same size pump as the 85+ 5m's. Cressida 7mge's, have the larger pumplike the later 5m's, and the 7mgte's.

    The early pump and 7mge pump, are visualy smaller.

    During Agatha's swap, the guy who originaly wired the first few local cars, looked at all of them. The later front sump, and the 7mgte pump, have all the same dimensions where it is critical -- gears, and housing, flow holes. Wade, IIRC also had some measuring done, and about the same time, I had the Mech. Eng. where my Dad worked, check them. Nobody could give me a reason to NOT use the pump that fit the easiest, as they could not find a noticable difference in the two.

    Oil pressure has never been an issue, nor has volume. The only time I have had engine failure, from either, the engine had "lost" oil, in one way or another, never, could I blame failure on the pump.
    84 P-type, 7mgte, too many other mods to list, 20k miles on the chassis. 83 L-type, 7mgte/A340 swap, again, to much to list. 85 P-type, basicaly stock, DD.

  8. #6
    CelicaSupra.com Member
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    I always (almost always) used a 1985 5M-GE pump in all my 7M-GTE conversions. 12+
    and they all worked just fine for me. Of course your mileage may vary, standard disclaimer
    blah blah blah.

    Jeff
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  9. #7
    CelicaSupra.com Member scorpmatt's Avatar
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    why don't you give DriftMotion a later 5m oil pump and have them do the same thing they do to the 7mgte oil pump?

  10. #8
    is awesome kmfdmk's Avatar
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    That's always an definite option, however with the price of the new 5M pump and the cost of shipping there & back and the cost of having the thing re-spec'd I think I'd end up around the same cost as just buying the re-spec'd 7M pump and having the pickup tweaked to fit.

    Good to hear so many positive inputs about the stock oiling systems, as that makes me put that much more faith into the upgraded system. Sorry to re-hash an already tried & tested conversion topic. I too have done a lot of reading, especially with Junkie's prior posts about the 7M-GTE pump internals being the same as the 5M's. However my deal was that I wanted an upgraded & re-spec'd pump, and the only "off the shelf" unit was the one that Aaron w/ Driftmotion provides (as far as I know).

    Thanks for the help and sorry for the last minute second guessing. I should have the pump in about 2 or 3 days, along with a LOT of other goodies!!

  11. #9
    CelicaSupra.com Member
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    Yes you can do a pickup change. Like Junkie says, this has been done many times.

    The 85 pump has similar innards as the 7mgte pump, so you can send that one in for modification. Of course, they work fine as is, as we don't have the oil pressure problems that 7Ms have.

    To prove this theory, the 1JZ oil pickup is more similar to the 5M pickup. Toyota engineers learned something there. So why you would want a 7M pickup on a 5M pump is beyond me.

  12. #10
    CelicaSupra.com Member
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    So when purchasing a new pump, how do you know if you're getting the larger pump or not? This is if not purchasing from Toyota, but an Aisin pump from Ebay or other supplier. Example: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/TOYOT...spagenameZWD1V
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