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08-28-2018, 09:11 PM #21
Please help if you can.
Again.. Pretty Please help if you can.
I need to show value of my car, insurance is only "accepting" current sales from dealers. I/we know that this is just ridiculous, and I know they are playing the game with me, to try to get rid of me soon. I have plenty of ebay listing and CL ads, but as you may or may not know, the issue there is showing proof that a car was actually sold (ie..transfer of money) for the selling price, or in the case of ebay, the winning bid.
I received an offer from the adjuster today, she came out to look at the car last week.
The offer Progressive/ the adjuster gave to me is 4 grand, which I explained to her is not acceptable. I then reviewed their paperwork and noticed:
1) that the two comparables they based their evaluation on are actually 86 MKIII models, as in the description it lists the engine as Supra (Base Sub-Model) 2 Door Hatchback 3.0L 6 Cyl Gas Injected (Base Transmission) (Base Drive Train). She even listed my car as having a 3.0 engine, so again she is flat out wrong.
I did a fair in depth explanation with the adjuster that my car is an 86 MKII, but obviously their evaluation is totally incorrect and they used an 86 MKIII.
2) She listed everything on the car as in "Good" condition. I tell you all, that if you came to see my car... the interior is in excellent condition. So, they again playing low ball here.
Once I noticed these errors I did call the adjuster to inform her that their valuation is not valid since they are basing it off a different model.
Anyone with any recent comparable sales info that is legit as to the same condition as my car and help me show correct valuve please get in touch with me.
I also provided them a printout from Hagerty and NADA guides, showing more accurate value numbers, but they did not obviously use that info.
Last edited by Suprabee; 09-06-2018 at 10:47 PM. Reason: spelling86 P-type, 5-spd, SDR, Gray Leather, 161k
92 MKIII Black, Auto, Shadow Gray Leather, 232K- daily driver
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08-28-2018, 11:57 PM #22
My thoughts. Just keep holding out, be patient and do your due diligence. Yes, its difficult to track down comparable sales of cars that sold a month or more ago, but relatively easy to contact every seller across the country who has one advertised for sale today. Have them send you dozens of photos and ask them to send you documentation once it does sell. In a few months, there will probably be at least three of the current crop that will change hands and you could get that information. If it were me, I'd be going to see them anyway. I'd just go ahead and buy a replacement with my own money and worry about getting reimbursed later.
I'd suggest to call every classic car dealer in the country and ask them for help. I would think they would be glad to because its in their best interest to do everything to see that the values of the cars they sell are upheld. They can redact the buyer's name and address for privacy. The seller's confirmation should be enough as that's all Progressive will have on their side anyway. My first job out of college many decades ago was in a real estate appraisal company tracking down comps which was a real challenge because most commercial property transactions are done through shell companies. Buyers and sellers generally wanted to remain anonymous but brokers, leasing agents, property managers, etc. were the key. Not so many third parties involved in car sales to tap, but there are sales staff. One simple, yet effective tactic was to volunteer to share whatever comps I got with a broker. I.e. if Gateway Classics sold a Supra last month and I found out that Streetside sold one for $X six months ago, then Gateway would gladly give me the info on the one they sold. Taking the salesman to a gentleman's club is effective too, but maybe a last resort. (One more on my goal to eventually find a use for every emoticon).Phil D.
85 Silver 6m-gte, completed 2000
"I always observe the speed limit. I see those DAMNED signs everywhere."
08-29-2018, 01:45 AM #23
thanks for the encouragement Phil. I've contacted a couple individual sellers of ebay cars that have sold in the past couple months., and also just started contacting the dealers on ebay (who usually also list on other sites). I like your idea of asking them to provide me info "when" the car sells. I was merely asking for cars that have already sold recently. But yeah, in time I should end up with more info to battle with.
08-29-2018, 01:56 AM #24
Rick here are a couple of listings from eBay...
Stay the course my friend!!
'86 Supra MA67
Brullen 2.5" Exhaust, HKS Fly w/7MGE clutch,ST Springs, RC Intake & TB, 2.8GT & XX emblems, Factory Add on Rear Shoulder belts, Pioneer DEH-P2000 AM/FM/CD w/CDS-P5000 CD Player, Compomotive CXNs 8x16
08-29-2018, 02:31 AM #25
thanks arch. The brown one I've already reached out to them about, so will keep following up with them.
Will do the same with the silver one.
08-29-2018, 02:58 AM #26
Wow... I can't believe what this adjuster listed as the condition of my car.
Basically said the overall condition of my car was a 2.52-Good
Listed that my leather seats are splitting.....when they are not.
Listed that my engine and Transmission has "significant buildup". WTF does than mean..?
i mean I get that her job is to pay out the least amount as possible, but to just be completely wrong.. wrong enough that anyone with working eyesight can see there my seats are not splitting, and then engine is probably one of the cleanest around (of any car).
Here is a pic of my car from the local Cenepa car show, not much has changed with it other than the new Riken wheels:
And from last Decemeber when I got the Riken wheels:
Last edited by Suprabee; 09-06-2018 at 10:49 PM. Reason: spelling
09-05-2018, 10:03 PM #27
WEll... things have really become interesting...
At this point, after reading this if you feel you can give me some sound advice and consultation, please advise. That said, I have been consulting with an attorney.
As in my previous post, I received a valuation for my car which they said is $4,000 and they provided two "recent dealer sale" comparables to justify the amount. And as I mentioned they listed my condition as "Good" basically to match the condition of the two comparables.
So.... I did my research. I called the two dealerships listed for the comparables, and asked if they had sold any supras or celica supras lately. This first one said.. "No I have no record of selling any supras recently and in fact we don't sell 30 year old toyotas, we only sell European cars" The second dealer had even more to tell me. This person told me as well that he had not sold any supras lately and in fact "hasn't seen a supra in many years", he then when on to explain, "... someone called me up (previously) and asked me what I thought a 1986 Supra might be worth, and if I though it was worth xxx amount, and I said, Sure, it might be, depends on the condition, sounds about right". I asked him if they showed him anything like photos, and he said, no, they just asked what his opinion was.
I almost pissed my pants with delight! :-)
Ok... it gets better...
As mentioned previously, I contacted the dealership that was selling that brown 85 that Arch posted the link too. It was being sold by Gateway Classic Cars at their Atlanta showroom. I called and got a salesman (Jeff Wright), and explained in summary why I was calling, and that if/when the car sells if he would be so kind as to provide me with the sales info, so I could obtain a valid recent comp to give to the insurance. It turns out, that in fact the car sold last week, and it sold for $11,000, ..AND... he (Jeff Wright) would be happy to send me a letter stating so, and would even (since he was a licensed notary republic) give it a notary stamp.
I have to really really thank Jeff Wright, for being so considerate and helpful to my situation and want to send anyone looking for a superb supra to seek him out there in Atlanta. I will make another post to recommend him and Gateway Classic cars..but I digress.,
So, I now have a recent valid comp to provide, and uncovered that the supposed comps they provided are in fact false and have been used to falsify their valuation.
After consulting with attorney, I composed a rebuttal letter to Progressive. In this letter, I provided evidence to show and prove that my car is a 1985 model year Celica Supra that was sold as a 1986 model, before the MKIII was released. I provided the comp letter from Gateway Classic Cars, and also plenty of photos showing that my car is in (what I describe as) excellent condition and disputed their claim that the seats were splitting, carpets had moderate wear, engine had significant buildup. Additionally, I provided to them that I researched their comps and found them to be false. (I have in my possession statements from the dealerships about not selling any supras), and then gave them my demand (which I will not posted at this time).
There is the chance that I will take this to a lawsuit and also submit a complaint with the California Insurance Commission, which I have the right to do.
I sent the Rebuttal letter to the claim agent, her supervisor, and to the Chief Officer of Claims for all of Progressive. (it took some time, but I was able to find his email online). I've instructed them to limit their communications to email (as I was advised to tell them).
However, I received a call from now a new person, who is now handling the claim moving forward and was calling me on behalf of the Chief Claims Officer. This person (calling on behalf of the CCO )wants now to send out an "expert adjuster" so we can come to a resolution..
oh boy,, here we go again...
I have yet to discuss next steps on my end with my attorney.
I will say that in my letter, I argued and showed (with many photos) that my car is in better condition than the comp I provided (from Gateway Classic Cars), as the Atlanta 85 car has some faded interior, stains on the back carpet, shift knob and boot worn. Also its a brown color and cloth interior, and (sorry if you like that color combo), I argued not as highly sought after by collectors and enthusiasts compared to my SDR with leather, and mint OEM shift know and boot, not carpet stains, clean engine, RIken Wheels...etc.
I'm not sure if I'm even obligated to show them the car again, They already have photos, and photos I've sent.
So, any educated experience and advice would be appreciated, as to dealing with a possible second appraisal by an "expert appraiser" whatever the heck that means.
09-05-2018, 11:15 PM #28
I think you're going to get what you want.
Keep the prices going up. I might eventually paint mine (yeah right).
09-05-2018, 11:46 PM #29
Keep fighting for what you beleive is right.
09-06-2018, 05:05 AM #30
- Join Date
- Aug 2011
- Arlington, WA
Hit them hard with everything you've got and provide them with a reasonable, but as high as reasonably possible value, justifying it with all the evidence you have and any more you can get. The fact that they lied and twice tried to lowball you using confirmed to not be valid information ought to get them all they way to your side. Having consulted with a lawyer and / or having one to assist you in presenting your case to them should be well worth the cost. They just might immediately cave and offer you everything, or nearly everything you ask for. They might ask for you to agree to not disclose the settlement though. Who cares if no one else knows what they settled with you for. But don't give up. You've got them by the balls and pretty quick they're going to realize that. Anyone want to take bets on the outcome?
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