A few new photos of my ma61 - Page 27

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  1. #261
    CelicaSupra.com Member killbill oddy's Avatar
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    I made a walkaround video of the car, and with the supercharger being driven by the engine at the end. It'll be quieter at idle when i get the Recirc valve working.



    Now winters drawing in, and daylights dimming every day (i hate winter) I'm just hitting the overtime at work to save up for Forged pistons and an engine overhaul. Should be getting an ECUMASTER black at the end of the month. Not sure if they will have a 84+ 5MGE base map
    so thinking a 7MGE might be the nearest thing. Has anyone fitted this ecu to their car yet, and f so, how did you get on with set up?

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  3. #262
    CelicaSupra.com Member
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    How did you wrap your dash and what material is it?

  4. #263
    CelicaSupra.com Member killbill oddy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Texasissouth View Post
    How did you wrap your dash and what material is it?
    It's genuine black Alcantara. it was foam backed though - which is the wrong sort to use apparently - but i'm happy with it for my first ever attempt. I used high temperature carpet glue to stick it down. just have to wait for it to go off as it's contact adhesive , but when it's stuck - it's stuck!

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  6. #264
    CelicaSupra.com Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by killbill oddy View Post
    It's genuine black Alcantara. it was foam backed though - which is the wrong sort to use apparently - but i'm happy with it for my first ever attempt. I used high temperature carpet glue to stick it down. just have to wait for it to go off as it's contact adhesive , but when it's stuck - it's stuck!
    They make stuff that's pre foamed? that's music to my ears, I just stripped my dash to plastic cause it was in such bad shape. Having an all-in-one solution would be great

  7. #265
    CelicaSupra.com Member killbill oddy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Texasissouth View Post
    They make stuff that's pre foamed? that's music to my ears, I just stripped my dash to plastic cause it was in such bad shape. Having an all-in-one solution would be great
    Yeah, the Stuff from germany is the best. Genuine Alcantara is UV resistant, so buying the fake stuff is a false economy. Think this is the one i bought
    https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/ORIGINAL-...UAAOSwnTdaQl8P

  8. #266
    CelicaSupra.com Member SupraFiend's Avatar
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    Cool! Wow lots done since the last update. I recognize your MO there. Did the same thing myself at one point on Dean Funs SDR 85. A year fell of the calander with no updates so I made 2 10 minute long vidoes to cover everything we had done lol.

    Hey. Yes, a couple peeps have converted 5ms to run with 7mge electronics in the past. The complications are around the distrubtor, as its on the opposite side of the motor on a 7m (though its not a deal breaker), and there is no ACIS system on a 5m. Thats more of an issue with the fuel map though as the stock ecu will radically switch up the mapping where the switch over point is (its a variable intake system, using a vacuum canister to effectively alter the intake manifold volume). However, if you're not going to run with some kind of PNP ecu on the stock harness (which most don't advise anyways), I would just make an all new harness and run whichever ECU floats your boat the most, they're pretty much all the same price now, unless you go with something like MS2.

    If you stick to something more factory ecu based, you might want to consider upgrading to a later intake manifold or 6m one as you have the shitty idle air control valve. The later plunger ones are way better. MS2 DIYPNP can control those too.
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  9. #267
    CelicaSupra.com Member killbill oddy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SupraFiend View Post
    Cool! Wow lots done since the last update. I recognize your MO there. Did the same thing myself at one point on Dean Funs SDR 85. A year fell of the calander with no updates so I made 2 10 minute long vidoes to cover everything we had done lol.

    Hey. Yes, a couple peeps have converted 5ms to run with 7mge electronics in the past. The complications are around the distrubtor, as its on the opposite side of the motor on a 7m (though its not a deal breaker), and there is no ACIS system on a 5m. Thats more of an issue with the fuel map though as the stock ecu will radically switch up the mapping where the switch over point is (its a variable intake system, using a vacuum canister to effectively alter the intake manifold volume). However, if you're not going to run with some kind of PNP ecu on the stock harness (which most don't advise anyways), I would just make an all new harness and run whichever ECU floats your boat the most, they're pretty much all the same price now, unless you go with something like MS2.

    If you stick to something more factory ecu based, you might want to consider upgrading to a later intake manifold or 6m one as you have the shitty idle air control valve. The later plunger ones are way better. MS2 DIYPNP can control those too.
    I'm working with the UK distributor of the ECUMASTER ecu's on getting the 5M running with their Black. I'm not even going to think about the Megasquirt because
    A- i have no interest in building my own ECU from scratch. The import fee's alone are huge, so i won't save any money.

    B- Nobody in the uk wants to map them, and That's probably the most important part in choosing an ECU

    C- the wiring pinout on the UK cars is completely different to the Cars in the US.
    My uk spec has no o2 sensor, Knock sensor, Cat or Smog recirc valves so for that reason, i just want to start with fresh 2019 ECU tech.
    I already own the Bosch 4.9 LSU wideband with the AEM UEGO so
    Once fitted with a Bosch Knock Sensor i'll be happy with the ECUMASTER Black.it has a 4 bar map sensor in it, so way over what i'll need. They don't have a 5MGE basemap available for them but are confident they can get it working quite easily.

    I will be ditching the Dizzy and igniter and switch to Coil on plug coil packs.
    All the turbo'd cars i can find have this set up and as i'll need a stronger spark, think this is the way to go. I need to make a mounting plate for them, and switch Hall effect sensors for the intake cam timing, but i work for a engineering company, so free raw materials and the machines to make parts are a huge bonus for me.
    I work about 2 miles from Williams F1 and heaps of other race car engineering firms are around Oxfordshire so really Lucky if i have to outsource parts.

    Thinking of going With a PMU with the wiring in the future, So that will substantially reduce the wiring, and eliminate the need for relays and fuses . Only problem for me is the cost, but seems like a great way to bring the car right up to date.

    https://www.ecumaster.co.uk/new-page


    I'm currently working all the hours God sends to buy Wiseco forged pistons and everything else.
    Will keep the compression the same, but overbore the engine out to 83.5mm when it's at the machinist. It'll be good to start with freshly honed bores.
    Also looking at getting Pauter Forged Con rods for it too. Pricey as hell, but can take 1500 bhp so Know they'll last whatever i can throw at it.
    There are some H beam forged conrods made by Rambutan in China.(think these are who make the Eagle forgings)
    Half the price of Pauter ones and made of the same 4340 Come with a years warranty And made to ISO 90001 but Not sure if i want to risk it as heard the ARP bolts in them might be fakes?!
    https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32796135881.html


    I know people say about using the 7MGTE bottom ends but, and you might not believe this - There are barely any Left in the UK!
    Most of the mk3's have either been Scrapped or Banger raced so i'm not even going to bother with paying silly money for 25 year old parts that have probably spun their bearings twice & have been reground.
    Also the hassle of crank pulleys and moving everything i have worked out would destroy my chances of driving this car before i die of old age! Funnily enough, my friend who got me into Celica Supra's had a 7MGTE in his car, but cooked it and it got ripped out. Shame i didn't have the parts from it, but Ahh well. If i can keep the near oversquare bore and stroke of the 5MGE i'm be happy as prefer reviver engines.
    Last edited by killbill oddy; 11-01-2019 at 01:15 PM.

  10. #268
    CelicaSupra.com Member SupraFiend's Avatar
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    I don't really find my 6m any less revvy then a mildly worked over 5m, but man, do you ever notice the bottom end shove. Of course, my motor has had every breathing mod ever imagined done to it, plus an aluminum flywheel and fully balanced rotating assembly, so its not a fair apples to apples comparison.

    That said, 7m bottom ends are disappearing for sure. No one is running 7ms anymore anywhere, JZs are too cheap and common. Also, 7m\6m bottoms are a little harder on rod bearings it seems. A lot of failures are from weak oil pumps and worn springs in the oil squirters and the 7m auxiliary oil cooler bypass, but the 5m uses the same rod bearing as the 6m/7m, and it probably should have been up sized when they stroked that bottom end (for the fourth time). I've got 10 years and 20,000kms of hard autox use on mine so far, but I still don't want to track it till I have a better oiling solution in place.

    Your ECU points...

    A Most people don't, and I certainly wouldn't myself. But you can buy the boards preassembled, and then all you have to do is wire up the connector to the board, which completely kills your C point as well.

    B Correction, no Shops anywhere want to map them. MS is a home brew DIY solution for DIYers. Shops like to deal with companies with guaranteed tech support, warranties and dealer training programs and such. If you don't want to tune your car yourself, you shouldn't go with MS. It really is unfortunate that MS3 Pro is the same price as all the other major aftermarket ECUs now, MS should always be cheaper then the alternatives. But MS3 pro is a great choice if you are already familiar with MS and want something with a bigger community and open source software at least. I will end up running it wherever I can.

    But redundant conversation since you have chosen the ECU Black already with a custom harness, this is a good decision! I would still ditch your early\EU style idle valve, they are problematic. The later plunger ones were used for decades afterwards, I still like them best. Finding a 6m intake can be challenging though, a later 5m one is EASY. I could probably get you one.
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  11. #269
    CelicaSupra.com Member killbill oddy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SupraFiend View Post
    I don't really find my 6m any less revvy then a mildly worked over 5m, but man, do you ever notice the bottom end shove. Of course, my motor has had every breathing mod ever imagined done to it, plus an aluminum flywheel and fully balanced rotating assembly, so its not a fair apples to apples comparison.

    That said, 7m bottom ends are disappearing for sure. No one is running 7ms anymore anywhere, JZs are too cheap and common. Also, 7m\6m bottoms are a little harder on rod bearings it seems. A lot of failures are from weak oil pumps and worn springs in the oil squirters and the 7m auxiliary oil cooler bypass, but the 5m uses the same rod bearing as the 6m/7m, and it probably should have been up sized when they stroked that bottom end (for the fourth time). I've got 10 years and 20,000kms of hard autox use on mine so far, but I still don't want to track it till I have a better oiling solution in place.

    Your ECU points...

    A Most people don't, and I certainly wouldn't myself. But you can buy the boards preassembled, and then all you have to do is wire up the connector to the board, which completely kills your C point as well.

    B Correction, no Shops anywhere want to map them. MS is a home brew DIY solution for DIYers. Shops like to deal with companies with guaranteed tech support, warranties and dealer training programs and such. If you don't want to tune your car yourself, you shouldn't go with MS. It really is unfortunate that MS3 Pro is the same price as all the other major aftermarket ECUs now, MS should always be cheaper then the alternatives. But MS3 pro is a great choice if you are already familiar with MS and want something with a bigger community and open source software at least. I will end up running it wherever I can.

    But redundant conversation since you have chosen the ECU Black already with a custom harness, this is a good decision! I would still ditch your early\EU style idle valve, they are problematic. The later plunger ones were used for decades afterwards, I still like them best. Finding a 6m intake can be challenging though, a later 5m one is EASY. I could probably get you one.
    Yeah, i don't want to tune the car myself. As exciting it would be to understand optimal Air fuel ratio's in map tables and solving problems
    with engine electronics - I just don't feel like i have enough practical experience compared to a seasoned mapper with hours on the job.
    And if you fuck it up - there is no come back for you. Just a ruined engine. So no money saved there!

    As for the idle valve - i thought mine was the later version?!
    It's the one that bolts to the head under the intake runners. My car is a 1984 5MGE no knock sensor, but the boss is tapped for it between 3&4 cyl.
    I see there is a graphite looking swing flap down the air tube so guess the earlier one is plunger as seen them on pre 84 cars. It hasn't given me any issues to be fair. Not like the BMW e36 Bosch one i had, where i was cleaning it out every year. That car did burn a shitload of oil though!

    This months shopping list is Wiseco forged pistons with an engine package from Flatlander. #21 engine package.
    https://www.flatlander-ipp.nl/hpkits/pek-toyota.shtml

    It's cheaper for me to order from them than Raptor Racing sadly. The import fee's from the US are brutal. Looking at getting 84mm with a 9-1 compression. The copper head gasket is no longer available so they will be supplying a Cometic. Can also swap the makes of bearings to whatever i want. Maybe ACL race?
    The price has also gone up about 200 euro as well. Having the head skimmed when i have it apart. But i will need to get Forged conrods when i do that, so a lot more working overtime to do. It's going to be expensive as shit but it's something to aim for..
    The 6m intake would be awesome actually, I would love to grab one of those, but super rare part i guess.

  12. #270
    CelicaSupra.com Member SupraFiend's Avatar
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    6m Intake...


    This I believe is the later 5m intake common in North America on 85/86s, and our 84 Manual is more or less the same.


    Our 84 autos got the hold over intake manifold and TPS. The 84+ manifolds have D shaped runners too, might have a little more inner volume. I thought only our 82s had the shitty under manifold cold start idle valve though, seems like you have all the worst parts. Not that much of any of it made a huge difference in performance, it was the compression change mostly responsible for that in our 84+s.

    The 6m Intake has a little divider in it to help separate the air flow that the 5m intakes don't have, otherwise its only differences is the 6mge letters cast on it and no provisions for EGR, its mostly just nice to have. But I would recommend the later manifolds just to be able to run the better idle valve and so you can run a later TB with a real TPS. The early square ones don't actually have a potentiameter in them to measure throttle position, they just open and close circuits as the TP moves off closed and hits max. You will probably have trouble running standalone with that TPS you have. Here is what all the later stuff looks like...

    https://www.flickr.com/photos/rfesu/26739403380/

    There's more pics in the thread I borrowed it from...
    https://www.toyotanation.com/threads...-5mge.1345665/

    As I excited as I am to see another fellow enthusiast doing something cool with a 5m\6m, I have to do my due diligence and point out that even a bone stock non vvti 2jzge would be a far better starting point and would negate the need for aftermarket rods and such. If you grabbed a low miles jdm import, it would cost you about the same as the pricey rods you are about to buy and will hold all the horsepowers you could ever hope to throw at it with that super charger, and then another 300-400 on top of that. Plus a better head, better intake, better efi components, better parts selection and the same square bore to stroke ratio you like, but with more displacement.

    But no, I don't regret building my 6mge, just a couple of the choices I made while building it (like running standard size rod and main bearings for instance, I should have gone with fitted ones). I did get a chance to drive a buddies 2jzge vvti swapped mk2 the other day and it felt almost the same as my car for power to weight, there is no arguing that the 2j is a better starting point. But I enjoyed the build and the special motor that I created, and I have a couple more tricks up my sleeve yet.
    Black 86 mk2 Project Car
    New SDR 86 mk2 Daily User, Highway Cruiser AND Parking Lot Abuser in the works!

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