Let's do this... slowly (Canadian 85P restore) - Page 5

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  1. #41
    CelicaSupra.com Member SupraFiend's Avatar
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    A quick little update.

    When you're in the wheel wells a good thing to do is wire wheel out the stock seam sealer that joins the two halves of the main panels. Often the sealer on this seam cracks, so there's no point in waiting for it to crack, replace it ASAP.


    It cracked on the DS on this car...


    A crack in this seam exposes the spot welds between these 2 panels to corossion. This was hiding under the undercoating on the DS...


    To fix it you need to split the two panels apart to get at the rust (and remove the rusted through section of course)...


    All fixed up...


    And of course you have to reseal the seam.
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  3. #42
    CelicaSupra.com Member SupraFiend's Avatar
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    And here we are, the last of the metal work on this car.

    In this update I will cover the repair to the DS rear rocker area. I thought this side would be about the same thing as the repair to the PS with the addition of using good donor metal instead, but I was wrong. There's actually a couple valuable lessons for everyone in this update.

    So this is what we're fixing today...


    I figured it was a straight outer skin replacement on this side as well. Here's the thing though, I originally bought this car back in 03 with pretty much the same rust. Its been garage kept ever since. What normally happens on these cars is the outer skin rusts, and just keeps rusting, completely melting off the car and usually the frame rails underneath have just minor surface corossion on them. But with this car, the outer skin more or less stopped rusting after I got it. Inside that rocker is a rust sandwich, a whole bunch of loose rusty metal sitting in the bottom of the rocker skin and unfortuantly touching the frame rail. I didn't get a pic of the debris, but here's the rear rocker exposed...


    As you can see the rail has a fair bit more rust on it then the other side. This is from sitting for so long with that rust sandwhich pressed against it. If the car had just continued to sit outside and rust, the outer skin would have just disintergrated and all that crap would have fallen out. This has happened to my daily beater, the rockers are fully exposed but in overall pretty good shape, that car should just need a new outer skin and a little grinding to be good to go.

    So the lesson is, if your rocker rot looks like it did on this side, do yourself a favour and take a pick axe to your car. Seriously, open up that rocker and get all of that shit out of there. You'll do more serious damage to the car by letting it sit in there then by poking holes in the rusty areas.

    On this side I also had to cut up pretty high to catch all of the inner panel rust...


    While wire wheeling the end cap of the rail, I uncovered a small spot underneath the undercoating. That coupled with my suspicion that there was rot inside the frame rail meant the cap was coming off...


    Yep, that definitly needs to be dealt with. Its not bad yet, but the bottom of the rail had to go to get access to it...


    Now the piece I took off the bottom of the rail wasn't actually that bad, with a little sand blasting it could have been reused. But I had already committed to using my donor metal on this corner so I figured I'd just replace it. That way I could cut the donor metal a little bigger so I wouldn't have to worry about dealing with any butt welds.



    Now pay close attention to that last pic. Thats what the inside of an 88,000km (56,000mile) garage queen looks like (yes those dots on the top piece are spots where the paint has given way to rust). We may have alot of moisuture up here, but I bet theres very few "rust free" cars on this forum that look any better on the inside of this piece. The weak undercoating primers they used coupled with all the leaks this corner has to deal with will rot out this piece on any car eventually. At some point, it needs to be removed, repaired or replaced, recoated and reattached. This can't be done without removing the lower section of the outer skin I'm sorry to say. If your car was truely perfect in there (which is pretty much impossible to tell), you might be able to get away with coating it with some of that wax inner panel spray, but it would still be a gamble in my book.

    Here's all the pieces I harvested off the donor metal or fabricated to repair this corner (the little 90degree bent patch was for the prior update).


    Lets get busy. The car is cleaned up and prepared...


    On goes the lower rocker panel...


    Then the end cap (which is half the origial piece and half donor metal as the donor cap wasn't complete)...


    And now we seal it all up before the outer skin goes on. Its a little hard to see, but I've actually added 3 access holes via hole saw to the lower rail piece I removed so that I can treat the back sides of all the areas I've welded...


    And last, on with the outer skin (sealer on here too)...


    Quick test fit with the flare...


    And its good! Minimal bodywork required here, just the way I like it.

    More sealer! Don't take chances, seal up all of the exposed seams, not just the ones we've opened up. They could all be problems someday...


    Its always a challenge getting at the seams in the panel after the outer skin is on...


    Like on the other side, I ended up using some of that wax interior panel spray to try and fully coat all of the areas I couldn't access directly with seam sealer. If you look at the 2nd last pic you'll notice I added an access hole in the interior section to the top of the rail so I could spray some of that wax into the rails boxed in section. I then plugged the hole with a spare oem body plug.

    Oh, a little word of caution when using that wax spray. Never add it till you're done the welding and never use it on an area that you may weld on one day. Its wax, yeah, it burns, it burns really good

    And thats it, this bitch is officially RUST FREE There will be a couple more updates to cover the undercoating and bodywork, along with a final before and after montage, stay tuned!
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  4. #43
    CelicaSupra.com Member SupraFiend's Avatar
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    Finished off the bodywork on this thing today, I should be done with this car early next week!
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  6. #44
    CelicaSupra.com Member Deanfun's Avatar
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    Excellent work Seamus, I really appreciate it.
    Dean L.
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  7. #45
    CelicaSupra.com Member jzar's Avatar
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    You have my vote for the most informative body post I've ever seen. If you could could you give a bit of info on the type of welder you used and perhaps show a sample of you drilling out the factory sheet layer welds?

    Great Job, thanks so much!
    J z a r
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  8. #46
    CelicaSupra.com Member SupraFiend's Avatar
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    Thanks for the compliment! I'll address your post in a second there...


    I havn't detailed Door repair in this thread yet and probably won't for awhile as this car is about to go back into storage so I'll just through a quick blurb on the subject out right now.

    Fixing rusty doors sucks as the inner skin is only pressed in by the edges of the outer skin, and the inner sheet metal is very curvy and hard to reproduce and patch nicely. The doors rust because there is no sealer on the insides of them where the inner skin touches the outer. The doors constantly have water passing through them (as the outer seal that presses against the glass never seals perfectly, if it all when they're old and dry) so it gets in between these 2 panels along with dirt and can very quickly rust the door from the inside out. IMO its best to find some rust free doors, clean the insides of them out perfectly, perhaps let some rust converter sit in this seam, then clean and degrease and lay a bead of seam sealer inside the door to fill in the seam. Just becareful to poke out the drains before the stuff hardens. I will detail all of this with pictures at some point in the future.
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  9. #47
    CelicaSupra.com Member SupraFiend's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jzar View Post
    You have my vote for the most informative body post I've ever seen. If you could could you give a bit of info on the type of welder you used and perhaps show a sample of you drilling out the factory sheet layer welds?

    Great Job, thanks so much!
    Just wait for the other rust thread I'm working on (its a little ways away yet however), it will be REALLY informative. There's alot I didn't post as I didn't want to clog this thread up too much as its also a build thread on DeanFun's car.

    Nothing fancy for the welder, its a 110v Mig. However, it has infinitly variable dials for the heat and wire speed. IMO this is ESSENTIAL for bodywork as you're always trying to adjust your wire speed to the exact point where your welds become perfect flat little pools of molten metal. When I adjust this thing trying to dial it in, you can't even see the dial turn as I adjust it so little to get it to that perfect sweet spot.

    I don't have any pics of me actually drilling, but I don't think it would really help any. Basically you want to get one of these bits...


    They're like a little hole saw specifically designed for drilling out spot welds. Once you drill through the outer layer, the spot welds underneath should look like it does on this panel here...


    You have to stop often to make sure you don't drill too deep into the underlayer. These bits are replacable and reversable, the hole saw section screws off the die and you can buy replacements in packs (they're not cheap though). I've gone through about 2 full bits on this job, they get pretty useless when they're dull. You also need to punch the center of where you're going to drill really well. If you can't get a good deep punch mark, drill a small pilot hole into the first layer of metal.

    You should be able to find these at any parts store that sells alot of real bodyshop supplies.
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  10. #48
    CelicaSupra.com Member SupraFiend's Avatar
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    Alright, time to finish this up! My work is done on his project for now, but I've been too busy to post the updates. Let's take care of a couple loose ends first.

    I amended the hatch update post, with this extra bit...

    Its also extremely important to seal up the inner ridge around the glass. The inner and outer hatch skins are spot welded together on this ridge, and are not sealed on either side. When these spot welds start to rust its usually the begining of the end for a hatch, rust around the glass is very hard to fix properly. I added 2 more holes to be able to seal the bottom ridge completely on the inside...


    And then sealed the ridge on the glas side all the way around...



    I also added a pic of the inner DS rear quater all sealed in to the appropriate post...
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  11. #49
    CelicaSupra.com Member SupraFiend's Avatar
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    Next up is probably the single most important step to preserving these cars, the undercoating stage. A good undercoating job on top of what the factory did (which was less then adequate) is essential to these cars survival, and unfortunately it can't be done properly with the gas tank installed so any aftermarket or dealer job your car received is not enough. There are several areas on the underside that desperately need to be coated as they only have a thin coating of paint protecting them from rusting, and that paint is not enough in such a harsh environment. There are also many seams that are completely unprotected.

    Once the underside is fully stripped down to the body (its best to undercoatwith the rear subframe removed too, but can be done with it installed), everything thatís going to be coated needs to be scrubbed clean and degreased. I won't lie, this isn't much fun to do without a hoist. Do it on your drive way with a power washer and in your bathing suit if you can. Get the car up as high as possible and go to town. I used a type of thinner called Tumbler to degrease after scrubbing with engine degreaser, solvent and soap and water. Stick to the engine bay solvent, foam or gel, for any areas that already have undercoating you don't want to remove, as the solvent and tumbler will dissolve it and make a mess.

    Once clean, itís very important to once again bust out the seam sealer and seal any exposed seams as you don't want to chance the final coat of undercoating to not fully seal them for you. Have a look at the places I hit...



    Note the bottom seam on the beam that is spot welded to the spare tire well, I left that alone. That beam is not boxed in, its just angle iron, the opposite side is open. Because of this water will get into it and there isn't access to seal the seam on the inside where it is spot welded to the spare tire well. So don't seal the underside of that seam as you want that water to be able to drain.


    Here's another faux pas. On the right is one of the panels for the rear seat belt holes that we addressed in an earlier post, but above it is the back plate for the rear seat backs middle post. Again, no sealer. I bet you many cars will have rust under that plate. I didn't see any signs of it on this car so I chanced it and sealed it in. Exposed steel does need some kind of air supply to continue oxidizing so any rust that was already there "should" not be able to get any worse, but it would be best to remove this plate on rustier cars. And almost as bad, the entire floorpan above the diff has no undercoating at all.


    Here's a couple uber important spots. The upper spring mounts are rust magnets, they need to be sealed up like this. I put a lot of work into removing surface rust in these areas. Also, the section of steel that braces the outer edge of the spring cage onto the rail is a design that is highly susceptible to rusting out. Its hard to see in this pic, but the cavity above this brace needs to be fully seam sealed as well as whatís visible here.

    Any area with red paint is a place that just had a single coat of primer that I laid on (most likely because surface rust had started and I had to grind it off). I like to put down a coat of primer and paint on bare metal before I under coat for maximum rust protection and adhesion. You also want to let that paint cure over night before you hit it with the undercoating. Speaking of, now its time. However, I donít actually use undercoating. I canít stand the stuff personally. I donít like how it goes on, I donít like how it drips off after spraying, and I donít care for how it levels out when it dries. Not to mention that solvents dissolve it and it canít be painted (which means you canít use it on the inner edges of the quarters). So I prefer to use black rocker guard instead. I find it much easier to work with, its plenty tough enough and it looks fantastic. Have a look at the completed undersideÖ







    Here Iíve reattached the brackets for the gas tank and theyíve been sand blasted and POR15ed, as have the exhaust hanger brackets (prev pic). Also, the plastic coating on the ends of all the fuel lines visible here had degraded and were starting to rust. I stripped off the rest of the plastic bits, wire brushed them down, rust treated them and then POR15ed them. I should also mention that the ProFoam seam sealer I like is available in black as well and would have been a better choice for the underside. The rocker guard tends to recede away from the edges of the sealer a touch, hence why you see the odd white bit here and there.

    The main floor pan (the under seat areas) is well exposed so the standard dealer undercoating was pretty good and there wasnít much for exposed seams. I touched up a few areas but nothing major. However, I did fix one of my biggest pet peeves. I canít stand when people jack Toyotas up with anything but the factory spare tire jacks on the rocker sills. Any hydraulic jack or car hoist will crush the rocker sill if jacked there, but unfortunately its almost impossible to find an old car that hasnít been severally damaged in these areas by ignorant mechanics over the years. I donít have any before pics, but I spent a couple hours pounding and prying the rocker sill back to its original shape on both sides, and then some sanding, rust treatment, primer, seam sealing and rocker guarding of courseÖ



    And thatís it for this update, I will make my final post another night this week.
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  12. #50
    CelicaSupra.com Member SupraFiend's Avatar
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    Final Update for the Rust Repair Stage

    Ok, its finely time for all of the post bodywork shots (see the prior post for the undercoating stage), and I'll do a before\after comparison plus links to each repair's post. The bondo work is complete and everything has a good coat of acid etch primer on it (which is waterproof, sandable primer is porus). However we're going to save the wetsanding and primer work on all of the repaired areas for the paint prep stage, whenever that will be. So there's several passes of wetsanding and reprimering with high build primer to be done yet to everything you're about to see, so please keep that in mind. Also the car has been partially assembled and prepared for long term storage so all of the holes have been temporaly sealed with electrical tape. There's no point in fully reassembling it as it will be painted the next time it comes out. Alright, here we go...

    Hatch





    The shaved antenna is pictured here as well.

    Spare Tire Well




    Rear Valance Panel Corners





    The repairs to all of these areas was covered in one post here...
    http://forums.celicasupra.com/showth...757#post633757

    Rear Seatbelt middle holes


    (this pic was posted before, we won't be painting the interior areas till the paint color has been decided)


    http://forums.celicasupra.com/showth...558#post641558

    Top of Rear Wheel Well




    http://forums.celicasupra.com/showth...213#post642213

    Inner Rear Wheel Well Wall





    http://forums.celicasupra.com/showth...086#post644086

    Left Rear Quater




    http://forums.celicasupra.com/showth...187#post639187

    Right Rear Quater




    http://forums.celicasupra.com/showth...187#post639187

    Left Front Quater (rear rocker)



    The primer on the door was from a rust bubble that was hiding under the impact strip. There was no point in covering that in a post, simple stuff, grind, treat, bodywork, primer, done.

    http://forums.celicasupra.com/showth...070#post649070

    Right Front Quater




    http://forums.celicasupra.com/showth...623#post646623


    And thats it. I'll close with some wet glamour shots of the car, primer and electrical tape, hot!



    I've found a straight rust free door for this side so I didn't bother fixing all of the dents, I just ground off the spots where the paint had cracked and surface rust was starting. Hence the "primer bandaids"


    Thanks for reading! Feel free to post any comments. One day we'll bump this thread with the car all painted and shiny, one day

    **Updates!**
    The car is back in the shop to be completed. But we may have found a couple more things to do to it before paint...

    1jz Swap...
    https://www.celicasupra.com/forums/sh...253#post801253

    Sunroof Work
    https://www.celicasupra.com/forums/sh...353#post807353
    Last edited by SupraFiend; 03-12-2013 at 02:51 AM.
    Black 86 mk2 Project Car
    New SDR 86 mk2 Daily User, Highway Cruiser AND Parking Lot Abuser in the works!

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