This won't give accurate results. I measured these parts and others years ago much more accurately. Please see the first post from page 1 of this thread.Okay, so I took some pictures out in the garage tonight. I did some measuring and comparing so that some of this front hub stuff can be cleared up.
I don't have a spare strut to test fit things on, but I do have parts that I can measure and compare against each other. I'm going to assume that the Starion/Conquest front hubs and MPV rotor setup fit right on and don't require a spacer. Well, measuring my early Z31 hub against the StarQuest hub, it sticks out 1/4" farther. I also measured my Corvair hubs, and they're 1/4" shorter than the Starquest hubs so they'll require a different rotor.
Early Z31 hub ground down outside:
The MPV disc is far superior. Most Nissan calipers are designed for 28mm to 30mm thick disks. Only the 1990 NA Z32 caliper would suite the Starion disc as it was designed for a 26mm disc. Starion disc offset needs to be more accurately measured.I measured my MPV rotor against my StarQuest front rotor. The StarQuest front rotor is 1/4" deeper than the MPV rotor.
So in automotive math, the StarQuest rotor and early Z31 hub should fit the same as the StarQuest front hub and MPV rotor. There's your possible alternative setup! Once the grease seal for the Z31 hub is found, then we will have the whole formula. This setup also gives an extra 1/4" of brake caliper-to-wheel spoke clearance over the Starion hub/MPV rotor setup.
MPV rotor on left, StarQuest rotor on right:
Yes the StarQuest rotor is 4mm thinner than the MPV rotor, but the cooling fins are THICKER. I would guess that the actual mass is the same, so they should both absorb brake heat equally. The next difference is the thickness of the face that is sandwiched between the hub and the wheel. The StarQuest rotor is THINNER than the MPV rotor in that area, so makes up for a little of the offset difference. This also means that more of the MPV rotor's mass is at the hub, where it doesn't absorb as much brake heat. Also, there are performance brake rotors available for the StarQuests.
MPV rotor; using a stud as a depth gauge for comparison:
StarQuest rotor; the same stud is showing 3 more exposed threads than the MPV rotor:
In case you need to know, the outside of the StarQuest hub needs to be ground down to fit inside of the MPV rotor. I tried to get a picture showing how much. Basically there is an outer chamfer on the flange, and you grind away until the chamfer is gone and the outer edge is square.
Yes this was addressed on the first post on page 1 for the Starion hubs. The rear stubs would be the same. Either make the center hole of the disc larger or machine down the hub. If the the hub and stubs are to be machined down the proper method would be to machine them to the center hole diameter of the discs that are going to be used, not an arbitrary value such as 67.1. That profile is after all designed to hold a disc.Another thing on the Starquest hubs that hasn't been addressed is the extra step in the hub face that locates the rotors. It is abnormally large, preventing off the shelf rotors from just slipping right on. This step needs to be ground/machined off to truly make the hub centerbore 67.1mm.
Here's a picture of a rear hub face to show the step:
I have more pics of the rear axle stubs, but I don't want to make this a more confusing post so I'll leave it for later.
Language barriers make it difficult. I did post on the first post on page 1 that '88 to '89 were the ones to use.Yes I have read the entire thread and I must had get lost, and english is not my first language if you didn't noticed.
The guy who sold me the hubs had tell me that they we're from a 87 turbo and I was thinking everything should be OK.
And for the rear to do the 5bolt swap I'm going a completely different way so it'll be easier than trying to find something bolt ON.
After some research I found an appropriate seal. I was going to order, test fit and post the information, but got side tracked. Now I can't find the information I had. I will look it up again and test fit it in the next few weeks. I will post it up.great info folks. For the later z31 hubs, what seal do you use? Is it still the MKII?
You keep saying it is posted at the beginning of this thread, or that you said that years ago, etc. etc. I read the beginning of this thread before posting, and posted what I did because this kind of information was NOT posted. Pictures go a long way towards explaining things completely. I read about opening up the center hole of the MPV rotor, but I couldn't understand why until I got a set of front hubs. Why machine the part that wears and gets replaced instead of machining the part that stays with the car? How easy is it to visualize 1mm when you are used to everything being in inches? A mm seems so tiny reading about it that you'd think just filing or sanding would remove that much, until you have a visual comparison to understand what's involved. I figure with enough pics, comparisons and measurements everyone will be able to understand things more clearly and not keep asking the same questions.Great pics.
This won't give accurate results. I measured these parts and others years ago much more accurately. Please see the first post from page 1 of this thread.
The MPV disc is far superior. Most Nissan calipers are designed for 28mm to 30mm thick disks. Only the 1990 NA Z32 caliper would suite the Starion disc as it was designed for a 26mm disc. Starion disc offset needs to be more accurately measured.
The reference to cutting down the outside of the Starion hub to fit the MPV disc was discussed in previous posts years ago and is posted on the first post of page 1 of this thread.
Yes this was addressed on the first post on page 1 for the Starion hubs. The rear stubs would be the same. Either make the center hole of the disc larger or machine down the hub. If the the hub and stubs are to be machined down the proper method would be to machine them to the center hole diameter of the discs that are going to be used, not an arbitrary value such as 67.1. That profile is after all designed to hold a disc.
As I stated numerous times, most of this information is posted on the first thread on page 1.
What really interests me are the Z31 and Starion rear stub axles. Hard to find here in Canada. I would like to properly measure them up to our stock stubs and see what can be done. Are they worth the effort because the MS123 stubs fit perfect without modification?
Yes there are other options, but I decided to post a quick update on the first post to the quickest way to convert to 5 bolt. All other information is posted throughout the thread, including technical drawings, pictures of installed parts, etc. Also this 5 bolt thread is working in conjunction with my Brake Conversion thread. It is all there, but up to those who wish to delve further into the thread. It's just too much information to update the first thread with.Update
Here is a list of the parts required to do the swap. It's quite easy and fits very well. Other parts can be used, but this is by far the easiest way to go. Only need to do a little machining you can get done anywhere.
The Starion hubs and Crown stubs are 5x114.3 with a center bore of 67.1. The Starion wheels are also 5x114.3 with a center bore of 67.1, the perfect fit. Once the the Starion (or Z31) hubs are mounted with the MPV disc the outside face is 8mm further out than the stock MK2. So the front Starion wheels 16x7 +18 or 16x8 +18 will fit as if they are 16x7 +10 or 16x8 +10 without spacers.
You need the front hubs from a '88-'89 Z31 (5x114.3, center bore 66.1) or '87-'89 Starion (5x114.3, center bore 67.1). Both are floating disc design. The Starions are the best fit.
Purchase and machine the outside edge of the '87-.89 Starion hubs, remove ~1mm. The bearings and seals are the same as the MK2.
Purchase '91-'94 4x4 Mazda MPV discs. 276mmx28mm, 5x114.3. If you use the Starion hub you will need to open up the middle hole ~6mm.
Purchase '90-'96 Infiniti Q45 2 piston front calipers. The whole caliper, mounting bracket too. Rebuild, paint and mount.
Mount 16x7 +18 or 16x8 +18 Starion wheels.
Join Toymods and purchase rear '83-'85 MS123 Crown stub axles (5x114.3, center bore 67.1) from someone in Australia or New Zealand. Have them shipped Australian Post or New Zealand Post Sea Mail. Slower than Air Mail, but lots cheaper. Also shipping by Post saves on the huge brokerage fees and taxes courier companies such as UPS and Fed Ex charge. Canada Post only charges $5 plus 6% tax.
Install using MK2 rear stub flange, bearings and seals.
Redrill stock MK2 disc to 5x114.3
Mount 16x8 -10 or 16x9 +0 Starion wheels.
The parts are easily available and cheap. The only parts slightly hard to source are the rear '83-'85 MS123 Crown stub axles. You will need to get those from Toymods, they usually pop up for sale now and then.
Find parts here.
'73-'75 MS65 Crown front hubs will also work. They are 5x114.3 with a center bore of 67.1. This will require the MS65 front discs as well to use stock MK2 caliper. The offset for the front will not change from the stock MK2 offset. You will have to find these on Toymods.
The excellent JK BBK can be used once the hats are redrilled to 5 bolt with the MS65 hub and MS123 stub axle. The front kit will clear even the 16x7 +18 Starion wheel.
From the front.
From the rear.
There will be no issues with this kit front or rear no matter which Starion wheel you choose to use.
The Z31 and Starion hub will require a custom hat fabricated, but will give 8-10mm more spoke clearance depending on the design of the hat.
Z32 calipers will work with the MPV disc, but will not clear any of the Starion rims. Depending on which hub you use you will need a 16mm to 25 mm spacer/adapter. So if one chooses to go this route other wheels will need to be sourced with greater spoke clearance.
Crown Victoria 16x7 +6 wheels can be used. They are 5x114.3 and a center bore of 73mm. Jeep and other wheels too. All will have to be tested for various brake setups though