[Abomination]

I'm looking to possibly convert to 5mgte in a couple of months and I had a couple of questions before I start buying the parts. I'm pretty much a newbie when it comes to cars so some of these questions will make that obvious but don't worry, I won't be working on the engine, it'll be me and three of my friends, all three of em are pretty experienced with engine work. Anywho, here are the questions

1) Those of you who drive 5mgte's daily, How streetable is the 5mgte? I'm only lookin for about 200 hp at the wheels which should be about 6-7 psi (might go to more later). I'm just thinkin about, what's the mileage like, how's the idle, etc?

2) Should I upgrade the fuel system? How much boost is too much for the stock injectors and/or fuel pump? I know I have to get a fuel pressure regulator, but if I'm running 6, 7 or even 5 psi, do I need to upgrade the injectors (I wouldn't mind paying, just wondering...)? At what boost level do people upgrade the fuel pump or to an S-AFC?

3) What's the most miles on a 5mgte conversion? My biggest concern is throwing a piston or something like that... I don't plan on drag racing the car, or even bringing it over 5K rpms but I basically wanna upgrade it and (hopefully) not have to work on it after I get everything running well.

4) Engine Maintenance.... My 5m-ge runs great but it has 195K miles on it. I plan on putting on the HKS metal head gasket and ARP head studs but is pulling the engine a necessity? I'll do it if I have to, but being a newbie, I'm lookin for as little work as possible. With this many miles, what needs to be replaced that's not too costly. I wanna make it run nice.

5) Does it pass smog?

6) Finally, the most important question: What is your recommended setup? For daily use, what size fuel injectors should I use, what ratio fpr, should I upgrade my fuel pump and my clutch? Should I get an s-afc to have a good idle? What should I replace in the engine to make it run well? I'm lookin to spend around $1,500 but willing to spend more or less.

That's about all for now. Everything I asked has been mentioned on the 5MGTE websites and I've been using the search tool for a while now, that's where I got all my information, but now I'm gettin some money so I wanna start doing this pretty soon.

Thanks to everyone in advance, I really appreciate this help. I love the way this car looks and feels and I wanna keep it til I get my NSX or until I have to get a new car, whichever comes first.
________
TEEN VIDS

 

[SilverMk2]

#5 is "technically" a no in CA. There are 2 ways around that, remove everything for smog checks and hope you don't get caught inbetween or find a smog check place that will let you slide or doesn't know the engine has been modified.

 

[Deanfun]

i'm interested in all of these answers too, you pretty much have the same goals as i do (ignoring the under-5000rpm remark).

 

[BillyM]

I dont want to go over 5k rpm, for engine longevity reasons, but I want to add 7psi...

Imo, spend $800 on the turbo setup, and drop the other $700 on another motor, that way you wont worry about blowing yours up due to having a spare. If your going to put some go-fast goodies on your car, atleast drive it fast.

--billyM

 

[Abomination]

#5 is "technically" a no in CA. There are 2 ways around that, remove everything for smog checks and hope you don't get caught inbetween or find a smog check place that will let you slide or doesn't know the engine has been modified.

I think I can get around that. I have some friends that know some ghetto places that do smog checks, they wouldn't know the difference and they would probably let it pass anyways, everyone there drives civics with b18s in em. I just meant, will the numbers pass. If it doesn't, I'll prolly do it anyways.
________
KTM 250MX

 

[CRF_Rider]

You dont have to pull the engine but you will have to remove the oil pan to get the oil return line fitting welded in (this can be done without removing the block but it IS NOT FUN). You will also need to replace your stock clutch so engine removal is a no brainer.

I am running 11PSI (8-9psi daily driving but I turn it up every now and then) with the stock fuel pump. I am running 295cc injectors and an SAFC though. I would not want to run any boost at all on the stock injectors unless I was driving it straight to the dyno.

Even running 11psi (271whp) it drives just fine. Just get a decent clutch with a sprung hub. Your stock clutch WILL NOT HOLD, even at 6psi (at least the new stock clutch I put in didnt).

 

[Abomination]

You dont have to pull the engine but you will have to remove the oil pan to get the oil return line fitting welded in (this can be done without removing the block but it IS NOT FUN). You will also need to replace your stock clutch so engine removal is a no brainer.

Ok, cool, thnx for the info. I've read your site many times (even printed it out for my plane ride to and from new york) and I wasn't sure if your stock clutch didn't hold up after 6.5 psi or 11 psi. I don't have any problem with pulling the engine, I wanna learn all this stuff as it is. Thnx for the response tho, I wanna know as much about 5MGTEs as possible. Speaking of which, how does yours run? How long have you had that turbo in there and how hard do you push it? I'm pretty much goin after your kinda setup but not lookin to push it too hard. I'll prolly get 295 injectors if I can make it idle well.

Edit: I bought the HKS mhg and ARP head studs the other day. They're slightly used, but they can definitely be re-used. $145 shipped for both
________
Lincoln v12 engine

 

[Racefiend]

When I had my 5mgte, I just ran the 7m stuff and an 1:1 rrfpr set at 58psi. If I did it again I would use a 4:1 and set initial psi lower to like ~35-40psi. I used stock injectors. Stock boost (~5.5psi) It worked great. I now it's not accurate, but my autometer afr guage red pig rich all during WOT. Emmissions whould not change as you do not boost during the testing. Gas mileage stays the same for the same reasons. I can't attest to the longevity as I blew it up after 1 month's use. It wasn't due to any reliability probs, but instead due to a faulty evc4. Stock clutch held up great for me, too.

Christian

 

[CRF_Rider]

The only issues I have with mine is I have 2 used turbos and both had bad seals and when I did the dyno I didnt pay enough attention to the low throttle position settings. Due to these 2 issues it will not pass emisions. I am rebuilding one of the turbo's now. Hopefully that will help wiht the emissions but I may have to take it back to the dyno a 3rd time (something I am NOT in a hurry to do).

Other than that it is as reliable as it was before. I rarely get anywhere close to redline. Usually I shift at 5Kor less. That is usually plenty enough to take care of what is beside me (including a TL type S). It will redline just fine on the freeway. I wouldnt like hitting redline too often if I had not put in the 2mm MHG. As it is I am not worried.

The dyno I was on has the ability to hold your car at any RPM you designate. With that said I ran the car on the dyno (TWICE) harder than it could ever be run on the street OR strip for 2 hours. The car never overe heated nor was there any sign of detination or pinging of any kind. The guy at the dyno wanted me to turn it up to 13psi but I said no.

So if you do it right you should have no worries. I did however do a complete rebuild. You may have different results with a higher milage engine. If you have it out you may just consider doing the rebuild. At the very least do a compression test BEFORE you put on the new HG.

Good luck.

 

[Abomination]

At the very least do a compression test BEFORE you put on the new HG.

Will do. Again, thanks for the info, I really wanna do this even though it'll be my first time taking apart an engine (not my friend's first times though)... but how long have you guys been turbo-ing your 5ms? Are they daily driven?[/quote]
________
MAZDA RX-4 HISTORY

 

[narsil]

5gme on the cheap

hey i am in the same boat. the 5mgte on the cheap subject has been brought up before, the thing is, cheap is cheap, i know it and i expect it not to be the all out powerplant that tons O cash money would buy.
the object : mild boost ,mild increases in horsepower.

besides, finding a 7MGTE in good shape is hard, and i have two 5mge's anyways.
5 psi max, to keep longevity and get some more safe power, i mean some not all out .
if i was gonna go all out well , i would do what others here have done, there lots of info but you need lots of time and cash , buy the 7mgte rebuild the whole sucker bottom up :twisted: .
i do not have the time or money, the power now is far from adequate but i havent gotten any tickets yet.
:roll:
yea yea you get some power next thing ya know ill be turning up the boost...... well if that happens so be it, but a journey is made up of many little steps. :lol:
After doing reseacrh and reading and thinking things over , IMHO there are little tricks to getting as much out of the stock setup as possible like
1. not changing injectors
2. or fuel pump
3. no engine rebuild or head gasket
4 stock clutch

things you should have
1. rebuilt turbo
2 . RPFW
3. intercooler, anyone that will work
and as CFM rider says , why not do the compresion test

did i leave anything out ??? :?:

 

[narsil]

duhhh

dun i meant RRFPR not whatever i spelt

 

[CRF_Rider]

Well, when I said do a compression test before you change the head gasket what I was referring to is making sure your rings are ok. When you put in the 2mm MHG your compression will drop. So doing a compression test before is a good idea.

If you run the stock HG you will blow it sooner or later (even at 5psi). Just be prepared and have a spare set of wheels to get you around untill you replace the BHG.

Have fun with the boost!

Oh, stock CT26 wastegates are set at 6-7psi. If you want less you will ahve to grind a little off the mounting faces.

 

[narsil]

thanks

thanks for the info cfm rider , see i didnt even know that the stock compression was 6 to 7 :roll:
learning more everyday
anybody every use the celica all trac turbo intercooler on a 5mge or any conversioj for that matter ,
its a smallish unit more compact ( probablynot as good?? )
agin thanks for the help
jeff

 

[Muchbzy]

I have a 6M turbo but I thought I'd chime in. On my car I used bigger fuel pump, RRPFR, stock injectors, 2 clicks on the AFM (I think), and I hit 9lbs of boost and it touches 10 sometimes.

 

[82Spearco]

Charles, what is the ratio on your rrfpr? It sounds like you are either running lean at that much boost, or you are pushing your injectors dangerously close to 100%.

 

[Muchbzy]

Charles, what is the ratio on your rrfpr? It sounds like you are either running lean at that much boost, or you are pushing your injectors dangerously close to 100%.

Actually my set up runs one or two bars in the green with the other lights in yellow. I'm running about 60-65 psi. I am looking for a set of the 210's but haven't found any yet.

 

[Racefiend]

Actually my set up runs one or two bars in the green with the other lights in yellow. I'm running about 60-65 psi. I am looking for a set of the 210's but haven't found any yet.

2 bars under WOT? Thats pretty lean. THe guage should peg rich under WOT. Gotta remember that the guage really just sits around stoich because of the stock O2. You need afr's in the ~12.5:1 range, which for an afr guage sits beyond the lights.

Christian

 

[Muchbzy]

Actually my set up runs one or two bars in the green with the other lights in yellow. I'm running about 60-65 psi. I am looking for a set of the 210's but haven't found any yet.

2 bars under WOT? Thats pretty lean. THe guage should peg rich under WOT. Gotta remember that the guage really just sits around stoich because of the stock O2. You need afr's in the ~12.5:1 range, which for an afr guage sits beyond the lights.

Christian

I may have used the wrong color. I mean two bars to the rich side of stoich. Why wouldn't you want your car to run stoich under WOT? Isn't stoich what we are trying to attain. I thought just a little rich is good. I don't have any of the idle problems or "pig rich" problems that others have.

 

[Racefiend]

Charles,
14.7 is a mixture set for best burn/lowest emmissions and high vacuum/low load. It is not a meant for high load situations. You must richen up under WOT. AFR's can get as rich as 11.5:1 for optimal safe power. Running 14.7ish at WOT can lead to detonation and kabooming of your motor.

I suggest you go to ether the MOTEC, TEC, SDS, or AEM site and download their user manuals which go over EFI basics. Or go buy a book on EFI basics. THere's a whole lot of info about fuel tuning in those stand alone manuals. I've read most of them and learned a lot. Can't beat it for free!!

Christian