6mge emissions
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Texas last year adopted the California style rules on emissions - specifically the ASM (Acceleration Simulation Mode) test for 1995 and older model cars. I am happy to report that my 6m-gte (including turbo) passed. Unlike California, they are not required do a visual here so my modifications were not scrutinized. A number of members have reported passing California emissions with otherwise stock appearance 6m motors. So long as you transfer all of the original EGR equipment to the 6m, and it is well tuned, I would think you should have no trouble.
Phil D.
Phil D.
I am wondering if you (pdupler) or anyone else has passed the new Austin / TX emissions with the 6MGE engine swap?pdupler said:
I just failed my frickin emissions here in Austin and my car is now marked. I suspect the problem is internal to the engine due to it burning oil and various other oddities at idle. Anyhoo, I have been wanting to do the 6MGE swap for a while and figure this would be a good catalyst to get me off my duff.
I do want boost in the future, but I don't think I have the time or resources to do the 7MGTE swap right now. So think I will just put some boost on down the line. For now, I would like a more straightforward engine swap that will pass our emissions.
Anyone have suggestions on what to do during this swap to ensure passing the emissions? I have read about using the 5M EGR and upper manifold in this thread. Anything else I should look out for?
Cheers,
Mike
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Well you can use your 'marked' car emissions failure to diagnose where to watch out on the 6m. You will need the 5m EGR, but is it clogged?djgoop said:
Post the numbers ex (NOx : test number/ allowed limit) and you'll get suggestions on what to try Specifically.
Without numbers, you'll get pretty general answers.
Ken
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:stupid:pdupler said:
Sounds like Washington State has the same emissions testing as TX and I pass just fine. They did open the hood because my cig lighter wasn't working at the time, but they didn't look at it. My personal belief is that the engine will pass but its the visual part you will have to modify by using 5m stuff.
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Gentlemen,
I was just pondering this very issue last night so I thought that I would pose the question the those concerned.
"Why would we expect a 6M to not pass emissions?" I understand that it does not come equipped with an EGR system, but do we really expect that the EGR system makes that big a difference?
I tell you why I ask! The gas that is recirculated by the EGR system is a small amount of gas which passes from the #6 cylinder exhaust runner. The passage is about 1/2" in diameter and is positioned perpendicular to the flow. Also, the EGR system is only operable under certain conditions. Based on the fact that it only involves one cylinder, it is not exposed to more than 17% of the engine emissions. And of this 17% it will only recirculate a small amount...
Now what are some of the things that should we expect from a normal internal combustion engine? First, NOx will generally tend to increase with increases in air/fuel usage and resultant increases in temperature. Because NOx production results from the burning of atmospheric nitrogen, we will naturally see this increase.
CO is generally a product of incomplete combustion and lower operating temperatures. As temperatures increase (a sign of improved combustion), CO numbers usually go down. (the carbon (C) results from unburned fuel).
As for the catalytic convertor, it will help emissions by converting some of the NOx to N2, the CO to CO2, and the HC,s to H2O. This system has limits however and is dependent upon a healthy running engine for starters.
This can be a tricky endeavor, because as combustion improves (and thereby improving CO emissions), too lean a fuel mixture may trigger an increase in NOx emissions, and too rich a fuel mixture and the HC emissions will increase.
Therefore, it looks as if we need to pay very specific attention to the tune of our vehicles. Also, as internal tolerences begin to increase we may see an increase in overall emissions.
P.S. Just curious to see if we could collectively identify the solution to fail-proof emissions testing...
Regards,
Carlos
I was just pondering this very issue last night so I thought that I would pose the question the those concerned.
"Why would we expect a 6M to not pass emissions?" I understand that it does not come equipped with an EGR system, but do we really expect that the EGR system makes that big a difference?
I tell you why I ask! The gas that is recirculated by the EGR system is a small amount of gas which passes from the #6 cylinder exhaust runner. The passage is about 1/2" in diameter and is positioned perpendicular to the flow. Also, the EGR system is only operable under certain conditions. Based on the fact that it only involves one cylinder, it is not exposed to more than 17% of the engine emissions. And of this 17% it will only recirculate a small amount...
Now what are some of the things that should we expect from a normal internal combustion engine? First, NOx will generally tend to increase with increases in air/fuel usage and resultant increases in temperature. Because NOx production results from the burning of atmospheric nitrogen, we will naturally see this increase.
CO is generally a product of incomplete combustion and lower operating temperatures. As temperatures increase (a sign of improved combustion), CO numbers usually go down. (the carbon (C) results from unburned fuel).
As for the catalytic convertor, it will help emissions by converting some of the NOx to N2, the CO to CO2, and the HC,s to H2O. This system has limits however and is dependent upon a healthy running engine for starters.
This can be a tricky endeavor, because as combustion improves (and thereby improving CO emissions), too lean a fuel mixture may trigger an increase in NOx emissions, and too rich a fuel mixture and the HC emissions will increase.
Therefore, it looks as if we need to pay very specific attention to the tune of our vehicles. Also, as internal tolerences begin to increase we may see an increase in overall emissions.
P.S. Just curious to see if we could collectively identify the solution to fail-proof emissions testing...
Regards,
Carlos
I failed emissions (Nox) with my previous 5mg. Cleaned out the EGR passage in the intake plenum and Nox readings dropped dramatically and I passed. Exhaust is about 35-40% water so looks like EGR does make a significant difference in emissions. Check the 3 way cat operation explanation in the efi section of the on line manual if you're interested.
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In CA they do a visual, some inspection stations do a better job than others, if you fail visual it doesnt matter what the sniffer picks upCarlos Brown said:
My 4runner failed the sniffer with a shot out EGR vac modulator, replaced the modulator and it passed.... so it's gotta be doing somethingCarlos Brown said:
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The EGR system takes in a certain volume of exhaust gas and reintroduces it into the intake charge. Since this gas will not combust, it takes up some of the volume in the combustion chamber, less air and fuel charge is allowed in the combustion chamber (helping increase fuel mileage). Also, as the exhaust gas is unburnable a second time, it is much cooler than the ignited intake charge, therefore acting as a cooler, which is why it reduces NOx (more heat, more NOx).
Cars designed with EGR valves will typically fail CA smog without it functioning. Toyota has taken engines that have had EGR valves and done away with them on some other models (1MZ-FE for example has EGR on camry and avalon, but not sienna) Early 4 cyl tacomas have egr, but not the newer ones. Somehow they have done it with computer programming or cam timing or something else they don't disclose.
Cars designed with EGR valves will typically fail CA smog without it functioning. Toyota has taken engines that have had EGR valves and done away with them on some other models (1MZ-FE for example has EGR on camry and avalon, but not sienna) Early 4 cyl tacomas have egr, but not the newer ones. Somehow they have done it with computer programming or cam timing or something else they don't disclose.
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Gentlemen,
When I have an opportunity I will report my findings regarding improved auto emissions. Of course some of the actions are obvious:
Clean/fresh Air filter,
Fresh Spark plugs,
Good condition wires (and ignition system),
Clean and operable EGR system,
Good working Catalytic Convertor,
Fresh Oil change (I am seeing this recommended more and more),
High Quality fuel (some brands like Chevron include emissions reducing additives),
O2 Sensor in good working order,
Properly warmed vehicle and Catalytic Convertor (it has been recommended that you keep your car running prior to testing since heat is mainly responsible for conversion),
but, test during the evening or on cool day so to keep engine "cooler" so to reduce NOx emissions,
Additional action not yet confirmed:
Retard Timing a couple of degrees,
Various lash adjustment settings (not applicable).
It appears that the established emissions limits are set very near the operating thresholds of the internal combustion engine. Perhaps this is why the smallest improvement is sometimes enough...
Regards,
Carlos
When I have an opportunity I will report my findings regarding improved auto emissions. Of course some of the actions are obvious:
Clean/fresh Air filter,
Fresh Spark plugs,
Good condition wires (and ignition system),
Clean and operable EGR system,
Good working Catalytic Convertor,
Fresh Oil change (I am seeing this recommended more and more),
High Quality fuel (some brands like Chevron include emissions reducing additives),
O2 Sensor in good working order,
Properly warmed vehicle and Catalytic Convertor (it has been recommended that you keep your car running prior to testing since heat is mainly responsible for conversion),
but, test during the evening or on cool day so to keep engine "cooler" so to reduce NOx emissions,
Additional action not yet confirmed:
Retard Timing a couple of degrees,
Various lash adjustment settings (not applicable).
It appears that the established emissions limits are set very near the operating thresholds of the internal combustion engine. Perhaps this is why the smallest improvement is sometimes enough...
Regards,
Carlos
djgoop said:
Ok, here we go......
RPM reading: 2482 (2500RPM test)
standard mine
- ---------- ------
HC(ppm) 220 196 pass
CO(%) 1.20 1.19 pass
CO2(%) ----- 13.7 pass
O2(%) ----- 0.4 pass
Dilution >6.0 14.89 pass
RPM reading: 672 (idle test)
standard mine
----------- -----
HC(ppm) 220 465 fail
CO(%) 1.20 0.10 pass
CO2(%) ----- 14.7 pass
O2(%) ----- 0.3 pass
Dilution >6.0 14.8 pass
Its just that HC test that is hosing me. Honestly, this is all Chinese to me so any thoughts would be appreciated.
Thanks,
Mike
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2,112 Posts
I went through some trouble last time at the deq. After a full tune up and oil change I still could not pass. The number were better but not enough.
I messed around with the timing with various degrees of success but still could not pass. I finally went and bought a new cat and passed.
A full tune up is a good start but in the end I think it was the new cat that did it.
I'm in the process of putting togather the 6mgte now and have both intake plenums (ported out and ready for the RC TB)
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there are small subtle differances between them. I happend to be down in the barn/shop the other day looking longingly at my parts stash and was thinking about the smog check with the new engine. My understanding of the egr system was not so much that it took exhust away from the exhust stream as much is whut you put back in to the intake stream. It is interesting that the exhust supply is only from one cylinder.
If one were to say be using MS and have the enging properly tuned (maybe even with a special file setting to pass emitions) then would not the need for the egr be eliminated? I personally don't like the idal of sending dirty exhust gasses back into my freshly polised intake system...
will
I messed around with the timing with various degrees of success but still could not pass. I finally went and bought a new cat and passed.
A full tune up is a good start but in the end I think it was the new cat that did it.
I'm in the process of putting togather the 6mgte now and have both intake plenums (ported out and ready for the RC TB)
there are small subtle differances between them. I happend to be down in the barn/shop the other day looking longingly at my parts stash and was thinking about the smog check with the new engine. My understanding of the egr system was not so much that it took exhust away from the exhust stream as much is whut you put back in to the intake stream. It is interesting that the exhust supply is only from one cylinder.
If one were to say be using MS and have the enging properly tuned (maybe even with a special file setting to pass emitions) then would not the need for the egr be eliminated? I personally don't like the idal of sending dirty exhust gasses back into my freshly polised intake system...
will
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722 Posts
wow, its been a while since I've looked at TSI test numbers, so used to looking at failed ASM tests since oct 04 when CA started using the dynos. How's your tune up, looking at the high hc at idle shows a lot of unburnt fuel coming out. Does your car idle smooth? Looking at the 2500 numbers, I would say its running rich, the idle numbers looks more like it has a slight misfire. Hard to say without looking at the car, though. Have you checked if the O2 sensor is reading correct?
Its been a while since I've had to diagnos smog failures, so I'm a little rusty at it.
Also EGR, functioning or not would not have any effect on these numbers, since egr only activates under a load. In CA, there is a functional check of the egr as part of the test.
Its been a while since I've had to diagnos smog failures, so I'm a little rusty at it.
Also EGR, functioning or not would not have any effect on these numbers, since egr only activates under a load. In CA, there is a functional check of the egr as part of the test.
Sean Chung said:
Wow, your pretty good. I should have mentioned earlier that it does idle roughly after sitting for a moment. It does misfire. I changed out the plugs trying to resolve that problem a while back, to no avail. The guy at the shop that failed me suggested I try different plugs. I put those Bosch splitfire plugs in and he said those might cause it to fail. Suggested I put the OEM type plugs in it.
I should also mention that when the car has been idling for over a min or so, the oil pressure drops all the way to the end of the guage. When this occurs, and I depress the clutch and take off on 1st, I get a white/blue puff of smoke. Seems to be burning oil or something. I just had the oil changed and put some Smoke Out in to no avail. I'm wondering if the head gasket is blown but am an admited novice when it comes to diagnosing / working on engines. I just like to drive the things.
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Djgoop,
What year is your car or more specifically, what year is your engine? That may not do it either, so, does your throttle body have a mixture adjustment screw on it (should). Try making a slight adjustment to the TB once the car is at operating temperature. If you are infact running rich, make about a 1/4 turn counter-clockwise to the adjustment screw and see if the idle smooths out a little (P.S. Mark the original position of the screw before beginning).
You should see a slight increase in RPM as a result of the increased O2 (very slight), but it really helps to fine tune the fuel mixture. Despite the fact that many believe this to be a none adjustment for certain years, I have always had great success with this adjustment on my 86 5MGE.
Regards,
Carlos
What year is your car or more specifically, what year is your engine? That may not do it either, so, does your throttle body have a mixture adjustment screw on it (should). Try making a slight adjustment to the TB once the car is at operating temperature. If you are infact running rich, make about a 1/4 turn counter-clockwise to the adjustment screw and see if the idle smooths out a little (P.S. Mark the original position of the screw before beginning).
You should see a slight increase in RPM as a result of the increased O2 (very slight), but it really helps to fine tune the fuel mixture. Despite the fact that many believe this to be a none adjustment for certain years, I have always had great success with this adjustment on my 86 5MGE.
Regards,
Carlos
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