[supraz]

Okay, my grand kids are starting to get into cars and Supras just aren't right for them. I've bee looking for cars that are sporty, good looking, have parts availability, and are affordable.

The 7th generation Celica (1999-2006) seems to fit the bill.

Unfortunately, I don't know anything about them.
They are front wheel drive, but the GT-S versions seem to have the right stuff:
180 hp
8200 rpm rev limit
6 speed manual gearbox
TRD support for exhaust, lowering kits, short shift kits

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_Celica

To me they seem to have that edgy styling that the Mk II Celica Supra have.

What are your experiences with this car?

Should I be recommending these to my grand kids?

Dale

 

[SilverMk2]

Early pre 2004 1ZZ used in the regular GT model are prone to oil burning. The interiors on these are pretty cheap hard plastic IMO. I tried to buy one of these when they were new, but just couldn't get into it. The engine is gutless below 6k RPM and I don't think the styling has held up well. I think the RSX Type S is a far better car with the K20.

Also on the early cars had the 8k redline.

 

[Funkycheeze]

I put a 2ZZ-GE in my 3rd gen ZZW30 MR2. It is a decent engine, but has some oiling issues if it is driven hard (bad oil pan and pump gears with a tendency to shatter) that I had to deal with (forged gears and moroso pan). It has VVTL-I, a system with a dual profile camshaft that goes onto a 'big cam' at 6000 RPM and above when the engine is warm, early engines are susceptible to broken lift bolts, there was a TSB and a redesigned bolt. It is a relatively easy fix. With the stock cams there is certainly a power 'hole' between 5000 and 6000 - I run aftermarket cams which helps a lot, but you need upgraded springs and valves to support the higher lift and duration. For pure reliability, an RSX or sporty Civic might be a better bet if they aren't big Toyota heads. And yes, avoid early 2003 and before GT models, the 1ZZ is normally pretty bulletproof, but those years have oil burning issues related to piston oil drain hole plugging (newer engines have enlarged holes and a revised ring pack).

 

[Zerodrag]

I may be wrong, but I believe the first year or two of that model had issues with the manual transmissions. I would suggest looking into that as well.

 

[MasonCraine29]

Oh come on kids! Im a college student daily driving my 85. Its incredible!

 

[SilverMk2]

Honestly the GT is probably a better choice for a first car. The drivetrain and suspension is basically all Corolla, so its pretty reliable and easy to find spares for. Plus it runs on regular which is a plus for a commuter car. IMO to the early front bumper is much better looking than the one you pictured.

 

[supraz]

Oh come on kids! Im a college student daily driving my 85. Its incredible!

Yay! A young person who likes old cars.
You are getting rare!

While the mechanicals of the Mk II are quite reliable and parts generally easy to find, it's things like igniters that make the car not so good for a daily driver.
Up in Vancouver where I live they are generally pretty rusty. Add to that the LSD that makes driving in the rain entertaining for a person without a lot of experience and I think this isn't really a first car.

You used to find cars at wreckers all the time. Now when you go in and ask, they roll their eyes and say that they haven't seen one of those for a while.

I'm going to assume that the gas mileage on the new Celica is going to be somewhat better as well. I've owned my '83 since new and my recollection of the mileage I used to get is a lot better than what I'm really getting now. My car only has about 30,000 miles only it so it's not out of tune but not putting a lot of miles on it is probably not great for fuel economy. That and generally short cruises rather than highway mileage bring that down. I'm only getting about 16-17 US Miles / Gallon! I could have sworn I used to get about 24 but hey, everything seems better in the past.

Anyways, I think the newer Celica may be not a bad deal.

Dale

 

[supraz]

I think the RSX Type S is a far better car with the K20.

Probably true, but in this area Honda's sell for significantly more than other cars. You will get one with an asking price a thousand dollars higher than other similar cars and they will have 185,000 miles on it to boot.

There's just something about Honda's that I just don't like. It's sort of like a Ford versus Chevy thing. Now, if someone gave me an NSX or an S2000, I wouldn't turn it down!

Dale

 

[gamble]

Wait you call that good looking?

My vote is something with an engine that is worth salvaging when they inevitably wreck it. Think LS400/430. Remove the rear seat so they aren't tempted to load it up with kids

 

[4SFED]

I may be wrong, but I believe the first year or two of that model had issues with the manual transmissions. I would suggest looking into that as well.

High mileage 6 speeds tend to pop out of 6th gear.

 

[Atl_Racer]

I would suggest getting the previous generation Celica. Its a better built car with a better engine in my opinion.

 

[pdupler]

I would suggest getting the previous generation Celica. Its a better built car with a better engine in my opinion.

But now 20+ years old. Did the grandkids inherit grandpa's gearhead gene or do they need something they won't be turning to grandpa to fix it for them every time it breaks? Of course if I were POTUS, all teenagers would get their first car the same way I did. Dad came home with a badly wrecked, late model car on a trailer and said "If you can fix it, you can drive it." Then he went inside the house and left me to figure out on my own how a car worked. You gain a whole different level of respect for a machine when you've had to take it apart and put it back together yourself. Its a shame that few kids will ever benefit that way again.

 

[supraz]

But now 20+ years old. Did the grandkids inherit grandpa's gearhead gene or do they need something they won't be turning to grandpa to fix it for them every time it breaks?

Bingo.

The grand kid number 1 needs a car to get to work through city streets. He has zero mechanical ability and interest.
His previous car which was given to him by his uncle got rear-ended (truly through no fault of his own). He needs a car and his parents have offered to give/loan him several thousand dollars for a car to get him through the winter.

Naturally, he looks at the most impractical car imaginable; a Jetta with 180,000 miles and a turbo motor. He chooses it because it looks cool to other kids his age. Sigh.

An Acura or Honda would be a good choice if he had the money, but he doesn't. So it's a case of finding a car that has sporty pretensions while being reliable and not costing as much as Honda's seem to go for in the area.

I figured that a seventh generation Celica does not have the cachet of a Honda so it may sell for less. If one shops around for one, one could get a deal.

Of course, I'm ancient so everything I suggest is met with a roll of the eyes.

Of course, I figure anything looks cooler than taking the bus! Who knows, maybe I will have the last laugh

Dale

 

[CAPTAIN SOLO]

supraz

You probably bought a car for your grand kid already.

I tested out the Acura RSX type S vs Toyota Celica GTS in 2005. The GTS won hands down.

Styling: RSX is boxy, ordinary. GTS looks aggressive and futuristic, a real piece of fine sculpture, looking like the F/A-18 jet. Lots of people admire its unique styling.

Engine: RSX has a fairly flat torque curve, GTS has a peak torque at 7-8K RPM, but that engine has very quick rev up, howls like a jet engine, power is always there, lots of fun to drive.

Transmission: RSX has a mechanical auto xmission, with mechanical manual control, shifting by pushing the stick, just like the cheap Kia and Huyndai sedans. Celica has electronic control auto xmission, shift by push button, like more expensive Porsche, MBZ, Lexus. Honda transmissions also tend to fail early, like 100K miles.

Handling: RSX -S suspension is softer. The GTS handles curves like it's on rail. Suspension is about right, not too soft, not too hard, absorbing bumps very well, stable and steady, steering is straight and firm, a delight to cruise at high speed. Japanese gearheads did big races with these little rice rockets. Celica GTS came in 2nd and 3rd behind Honda S2000, ahead of the RSX-S. These guys all said the GTS handles curves beautifully.

Utility: RSX has a small trunk. GTS has a hatchback, if open up and rear seats folded down it has lots of room to carry large bulky objects, its utility is very close to a pick up trucks, like furniture, chairs, desks, chest drawers, perfect for young people to move their possessions without the need of parents' help.

My 2002 GTS auto has 330K miles, power train is all original, still runs strong and smooth with very few repairs, cruising long runs every week at triple digit. New parts are a rebuilt alternator, a few ignition coils, an used charcoal canister, 2 sets of struts (I curbed a lot), a few new wheels and sets of tires, 2 sets of engine mounts, new radiator, 1 leaky coolant hose, batteries, light bulbs, nothing major.

A friend prefers the GTS over a BMW 335 in high speed cruise, like over 100, which he never dares driving in his BMW. The GTS feels stable and deceptively slow at high speed due to the OEM suspension tuned just right for high speeds on freeways. It's also fun to drive on twisty roads and city streets. Its quick engine, precise steering, stable in tight turns with little body roll ect makes it fun to drive. Every time you sit in the car and rev up that howling engine, you feel like racing and winning. That engine is similar to the Lexus LFA V10, with Yamaha's high speed cam shafts and light weight Titanium piston rods, revving up to 10K RPM

Unlike other the drudgeries of driving other cars, you tend to make excuses to take the car out to the road for fun.

 

[supraz]

Hey Captain Solo,

It's good to hear about the car.
I have always heard that the 2ZZ-GE needs a 1ZZ-FE oil pan with baffles or a Moroso pan to hold the oil by the pickup with hard cornering.
What is parts availability like? My 83 and 84 Mk IIs are starting to get real hard to find parts for.
I have always liked the look of the styling of the Gen7 Celica.

As for my grandson........sigh.
He bought an early 00s BMW 3 series. Well, with vaunted German quality, that lasted 6 months.
I thought he learned his lesson, but no, he bought a TDI Jetta.......2 months with that before he ended up walking.
He's going to have to save some money, but I AM going to recommend a Gen7 Celica.
For a not-very tech savvy young person, would you recommend a GT or a GTS?

Thanks for the feed back.

Dale

 

[CAPTAIN SOLO]

I drive the car very hard, abused it a lot. It leaked oil out of the front timing seal so for a couple years I did not change oil, only added, also driving on cheap 87 octane. Then one night I ran a long trip at high speed with low oil below min level;. Engine started running rough idle, but ran fine at high speed . After testing found Cyl 1 had low compression, the other 3 were fine.

Took it to dealer and a few reputable shops, they all said low and dirty oil wore out cylinder 1, recommended swapping engine. I tried various ways to increase compression, nothing worked. Finally I flushed the engine twice with Motor Medic's GUNK ($6 Walmart). Dumped oil was thick and black like tar. It cleaned out carbon deposits on piston rings and valves, compression returned to normal. Engine ran smooth again. I abused it a lot but had no problems and had no need for special oil baffle.

The GT drives soft and slow like most sedans. The GTS is a serious high-performance machine with a very fine system design and engineering, a stiff but light chassis, a very quick and bullet-proof 2ZZ engine, which Lotus tested and selected over all other 4 cyl engines to power the Elise and Exige. Lotus engineers know their cars would be driven at red line all the time on tracks, so they needed a high-performance but reliable and long-lasting engine that won't blow up.

The Celica is the last sports coupe designed from the ground up by Toyota. They did an excellent engineering job. Consider a fully loaded GTS with a very stiff chassis, 4 seats, all accessories, a heavy hatchback weighs only 2.500 lbs. The stripped down Elise with Aluminum frame, plastic panels ect 2 seats rag top, weighs 2,200 lbs. S2000 weighs 2,900 lbs. The tiny Miata with smaller engine 2 seats rag top weighs 2,300 lbs.

A friend owns an exotic cars dealership. I tested a lot of fancy cars. The $150K Porsche 911 Turbo may log impressive numbers on track, but on real roads the front end is too light the car keeps bobbing on bumps, very dangerous to control. I am not a fan. BMW Z4 has body roll oscillation on turns even at low speed. You can roll that car easily on tight turns. Very high percentage of BMWs spin out and roll over on the Nürburgring track, higher than other brands. Check it out on Youtube. My dealer friend admitted the GTS' ABS brake is smoother, stronger and more predictable than his $200K MBZ S600. Toyota engineering is the best.

I definitely recommend the GTS. It's a very serious driving machine. Beats BMW Z4 for sure. Even girls/women like to drive the GTS. They would laugh at the poor performance, clumsy handling and loose controls in other sedans and SUVs. If you cover up the speedometer and let a noncar guy or a woman drive it on the open freeway with no or light traffic (like at night) they would drive at 100 MPH and feel safe and secure, really thinking they are doing only 65.

 

[SilverMk2]

The question is a Celica GTS a better car than the Koenigsegg Jesko? I was about to buy the Koenigsegg, but the GTS sounds like its the best car ever made?

🤔

 

[supraz]

The question is a Celica GTS a better car than the Koenigsegg Jesko? I was about to buy the Koenigsegg, but the GTS sounds like its the best car ever made?

🤔

The obvious answer of course is, "Absolutely!"
It's made by Toyota so it's reasonably reliable, it's affordable, and it's stylish looking.
Depending on year, the engine redline is either 7800 or 8200 rpm so it'll sound like a banshee when it's at full tilt.
It's fast without being "you going to jail son" fast.

I was about to say that it's also going to be easier to pronounce the name, but that's not true. You rebels still don't know how to pronounce Celica properly. It's 'Cell eek ah', NOT 'Sell Ick aah'.🤣

And best of all, did I mention that it's made by Toyota!!!!

Dale

 

[CAPTAIN SOLO]

If your Koenigsegg Jesko doesn't break down every other day, bring it. I will race you in my old trusty Toyota Celica GTS.

 

[icestation1]

Hi Guys i run a 2zzge out of a zzt231 celica in my aw11 it is a great engine i have the 190hp ECU from JDM model with the lower lift engagement and higher rev limit. my engine had 270000kms on it before a freshen up and still ran flawlessly. the ZZT231 is a reliable daily runaround.