[supraz]

Has anyone seen or used this fuel injection ECU? This seems to be a serious attempt at a low cost batch fired fuel injection system that can use Speed-Density, Mass Flow, or "Alpha-N (Throttle Position/RPM based).

The cost of this DIY system is US$150-ish. :shock:

These guys are serious. There is a discussion group that is REALLY active.

The 2 fellows doing the designing are part of a larger non-profit group designing EFI/Ignition computers for fun!!!!!

There is tuning software and other support tools available.

Apparently the Alpha-N sensing technique is that used by racing teams when high overlap cams produce poor vacuum.

Their MAP sensor is suitable for using on turbo'd systems.

The system uses an O2 sensor so in idle there is closed loop operation.

Apparently, users have taken these through emissions testing and passed. Although a visual inspection could fail them.

The current version does not control ignition, but a new upcoming "Ultra-MegaSquirt" will combine these features.

Wow. Anyone working on this :?:

 

[supraz]

Oh yeah,

Their web site is:

http://www.bgsoflex.com/megasquirt.html

 

[SupraFiend]

I have a friend that has installed it on his AE86 and has had it running quite well for awhile. Hes impressed with it but hes had a few problems too. He actually completely revereted back to the stock efi system a couple weeks ago so he could better diagnose why his car wouldn't start, I think it just ended up being a fuel pump, can't quite remember. Anyways, I think he still likes the system, I can put you in touch with him if you like.

 

[CJSREDPRA]

Last I heard from the Yahoo list (at least from earlier this year, or late last year), Mike Lewitz in Arizona had switched to the Megasquirt system on his 5/7MGTE. Good luck trying to find him, he's been pretty quiet lately.

 

[Hemiyoda]

I'm running MS in my soup.. Works great! I have even gutted the original ECU and replaced the innards with it.

I'll post pics of my install later.

Perhaps a video of me driving on a track day will suffice until I get the pics for ya?

http://deeper.mine.nu/hemiyoda/videos/hygellerasen2003.avi
http://www.shellkonto.nu/tcs/media/movies/hygellerasen2003.avi
28mb, divx 5.05, mp3. Right-click > Save As.

 

[supraz]

Very cool,

I'm still downloading the videos so I haven't seen your Supra yet.

Why did you decide to change EFI to MS? How have you been mapping it - chassis dyno?

If your Supra is '83+, are you running ignition advance control as well?

I am very curious to see your thoughts on the MS. Do you have serious modifications that required non-stock EFI?

I/we definitely need to see details of this. :shock:

 

[Hemiyoda]

I have an european 5M-E, it has a non closed loop ECU originally, ie. no oxygen sensor. The megasquirt now gives me a bit better fuel economy. The best part is probably that the MS does not use an AFM .. so a little more power has been gained.
The 5M-E has a traditional distributor with centrifugal/vacuum advance, so it's a perfect candidate to be MS:ed..

I have tuned it on the road. With and without an assistant. (potentially dangerous stuff people hehe.. ) A wideband ox-sensor would help out a lot, if you are after the last bit of power/economy.

No serious mods yet. But if I decide to boost it, I "only" need to change injectors and plug in a boost sensing FPR (and maybe a better headgasket also ). No hassles with trying to find an AFM that corresponds to the injectors or adjusting spring tensions. With the MS it's just to plug in the laptop and change a few parameters hehe..

Sorry, no shots of the ECU in the video, but the engine runs very strong for being an N/A 5M-E. A regular 5M-GE spanker muhaha.

 

[supraz]

I definitely want to see pictures of your install.

There is so much stuff on the MS site that I don't know where to start in deciding if I should proceed or where to start going through the documents.

Has it been reliable? How long did it take to get a smooth idle and get the basics sorted out?

You must be very pleased. This is not a minor tweak on the car :!:

Dale

 

[Hemiyoda]

Ok, here we go:

1. Air temp sensor. (relocated nowadays to it's original position, ie after the airfilter box due to excessive heat soaking.)
2. TPS changed to variable resistance type. (SAAB 9000)
3. Vacuum for the MAP sensor in the MS.
4. AFM gone!!

Original Toyota ECU

Megasquirt (MS) Speed Density realtime mappable DIY ECU ~150 US$
http://www.bgsoflex.com/megasquirt.html

Pic of the finished box.

Initial install.

Current install.
Original wiring loom with minor mods used for all sensors except for the oxygen sensor! = Clean install in the engine bay. Should pass inspection hehe.

AFM

Gone!

Old cold air mods to the airbox. (optional )

The disadvantage of picking up air directly in front of the car..

 

[SupraFiend]

two word, bug screen

 

[Hemiyoda]

How to get started .. Order the partial kit from http://www.bgsoflex.com/mspo1.html

Order the rest of the components, resistors, transistors etc.

Follow the excellent assembly instructions at: http://www.bgsoflex.com/megasquirt.html >> MegaSquirt PCB Assembly Guide

Now it gets a bit complicated Either you run your MS with Toyota original watertemp sensor and GM airtemp sensor (or similar, I run an ordinary NTC thermistor..)) or GM everything
If you run with GM components no alteration to MS code or hardware is required. If you decide to use Toyota components, you've got to measure the resistance of the sensor at three different temperatures. like 20C, 40C, 80C etc.. and input the data into a program called easytherm that uploads the new tables into the MS controller. (available in the files area of the mailinglist)

Read the FAQ by Lance Gardiner: http://members.shaw.ca/megasquirt/MS FAQ.htm

If your MS PCB does not have the tach signal bug fixes implemented (dave cap etc.) you have to implement those yourself, easy, instructions in the FAQ above.

Ah, more on ignition.. If you have a regular centrifugal/vacuum advance distributor, the MS system is plug and play. If you have TCCS it can get complicated.. I don't know how the TCCS will react if you only use the ignition bit in the original ECU. One alternative could be to run an aftermarket ignition system. (Haltech, Prospark, Megaspark etc.) Or to retrofit an older system from an older supra. The bgsoflex guys are working on the spark part of MS. There is one system running already, called the MegaSpark, but that requires one extra MS unit only for ignition.

Ok .. wire up the biaatch to the car. :twisted: I made a temporary connector out of hot glue to be able to plug the MS into the original wiring loom. Now as you can see above I have scrapped the orig ECU hehe.. Ah, if you don't have the schematics for the connector, open up the old ECU. The connector pins are documented on the PCB.

Start it up. Ok, lots of tuning left! If you have read the tuning bit in the FAQ thoroughly and have set up your sensors correctly, you should get the car to run decent in 15min ..
It is very important to get the sensor setup exactly right.. took some time and experimenting for me. Tip: use a 1.6k bias resistor and easytherm for toyota watertemp sensor.. works great for me.

Problems? Ask the experts at: http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/megasquirt/

 

[Hemiyoda]

My problems with the MS:

Temperature sensors .. too slow airtemp sensors (heatsoak) and a badly calibrated watertemp sensor that when hot, wrapped the 8bit value in the MS and gave some very strange results hehe..

Shitty new TPS that gave acceleration enrichment when it was not necessary. In conjuction with lambda closed loop feedback it gave horrible missfirings under cruise conditions.

Old ignition coil couldn't handle WOT conditions together with heatsoak. (slightly leaner mixture). Worked fine with the orig ECU. New coil solved problem.

Alright folks. . enough from me for one day hehe..

 

[Hemiyoda]

two word, bug screen

Hehe no kidding! There were like 1000 of those critters in the filter when I cleaned it. :lol:

 

[supraz]

Wow :!:

I am just amazed with the results you have achieved especially considering the price.

You mentioned that it should pass inspection. What kind of inspection do you have to undergo? Is it a safety inspection or is it an emission inspection? If it's an emission inspection, when you get the results, you will have to post them :!:

You will have to excuse my ignorance, but I am not familiar with the 5M-E. Does it have an idle bypass solenoid or an idle speed valve? If it has(had) an idle speed valve, does the MS give adequate control of idle speed? If you take your car to the track often, I would suspect the air conditioning is gone. On the 5M-GE, when the air conditioning is switched on, the idle speed increases by about 150 rpm (I'm guessing) to ensure that it doesn't stall. It uses the idle speed valve to adjust this, rather than an idle bypass solenoid.

Hmmmm.........Mouse on a stick. Plays with fuel injection, knows his way around a chat room, computer admin. You don't work for HP do you?

I'm certain that other people (me included) that want to modify their stock engine a bit with cam timing and porting need some fuel map modifications at the higher rpm range where the stock ecu reverts to the map, rather than the AFM.

There sure seems to be a lack of Supra specific modifications to EFI, so I am sure that a lot of people are going to be asking you questions 8)

Nice pictures by the way. They really are informative.

Thank you for the great effort showing your system.

Dale

 

[Hemiyoda]

Inspection: safety / emissions / visual. I have a crank driven air pump for emissions. Not attached to engine in the pics. Messes up lambda readings if enabled.
But that should not be a problem, I have tried running the MS without lambda feedback for a while now and it works great. I now run much leaner than 14.7:1 at cruise. Ah, one more thing that I think they should fix, that they should disable lambda correction at a defined throttle position.

The 5M-E has a bi-metal / heated ISV, it operates itself. And my car has no AC hehe, so no problems.

If you have an ISV of solenoid type (fast idle) you can connect it directly to the MS.

If you want AC idle stabilization, you could perhaps use this guys version of the MS: http://www.geocities.com/perboddum/megasquirt.html see bottom of page. I'm positive there will be similar features in new official releases also.. Stepper motor type ISV:s are not supported in non-modded form. See above link for one variation that supports.

Mouse on a stick.. what a horrible invention. But the Omnibook 800 can operate on 12V directly, so there's something positive with it.

Thanks Dale!

 

[kjurkic]

Megasquirt...THANKS!

Just wanted to say thanks for the info on the mega-squirt system. I was looking for some options on stand-alone or upgrades from the stock Toyota system. The information and links you provided are greatly appreciated.
Ken

 

[allmotor85supra]

I currently used Electromotive Tec 2 stand alone. I love the way it work and is extremely simply to use and wire up. Tec 2 also get completely rid of the dist and 90 percent of the wiring under the hood so it leaves the engine bay quite clean. Another reason why i like it is because it come with high output coil packs wich put MSD CRANE ect to shame with power and reliability.
just my 2 cents

 

[supraz]

allmotor85supra

This is a stupid, but I have to ask... How do you plug the distributor hole?

I assume that you are using a crank toothed wheel and sensor. How do you attach it?

The individual coils...are they mounted right on top of the spark plugs, or is there a mounting plate with spark plug wires running to it?

How do you control idle speed, an idle solenoid valve, or an Idle speed control valve?

Why did you go an aftermarket EFI? Do you have enough mods to your motor that you were getting lean mixtures?

Does your cruise control still work with the Tec 2?

Some of these are really dumb questions, but I have not actually seen an aftermarket EFI system on a Supra.

I appreciate your 2 cents.

Dale

 

[SupraFiend]

Dale, they'll be a supra (mk3) with a TEC 2 installed at the next meet if you want to take a good look at it.

 

[allmotor85supra]

Dude the only stupid questions are the one u dont ask
1 plug the dist hole with a freeze plug
2 Unorthodox can make custom pully for the 5m motor i plan on using a 2jz so Electromotive has a crank pullykit already made
3 The entire system is mounted to one box. All of the wires go into the ends and the coil packs sit on top, all u have to do is make custom plug wires
feal free to ask whatever u want to know

Plans 2jz allmotor supra 13's on slicks by spring :lol: