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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Auto to Manual Swap FAQ:

The mechanics of the removal and installation of the transmissions and associated parts are fairly straightforward and do not require explanation here. If you do not understand the mechanical work required to do the swap (or aren’t intelligent enough to figure it out on your own), be sure to enlist the help of a friend (or two… or three) with a bit more experience. Payment in Beer will be appreciated.

Parts

What’s Required?

Front piece of driveshaft from manual supra (or entire driveshaft) – Cressida driveshafts are not the same length as MKII driveshafts and can not be substituted.
W58 transmission w/ proper bellhousing
W58 clutch
W58 flywheel and bolts
manual transmission crossmember
clutch slave cylinder and soft line
clutch master cylinder and hard line that runs down body to bracket
clutch pedal assembly
brake pedal assembly
Manual shifter
Pilot bearing (buy a new one)

What’s nice to have?

Radiator from 5-speed car
Leather shift boot
A talking parrot

What do you NOT need (that you think you do)?

Manual speedo cable – the auto cable will suffice. It is a bit longer than the manual one so if you’re picky and want a “clean” engine bay, feel free to seek a 5-speed one out.
5-speed starter

Some key points:

The mechanics of the removal and installation of the transmissions and associated parts are fairly straightforward and do not require explanation here. If you do not understand the mechanical work required to do the swap (or aren’t intelligent enough to figure it out on your own), be sure to enlist the help of a friend (or two… or three) with a bit more experience. Payment in Beer will be appreciated.

You will have to cut a small bit of the body out of the car to fit the manual shifter in, about 1/2-1" of metal. The auto-shifter hole is not large enough to allow the shifter to fully engage gears 2, 4, and Reverse.

You may also wish to change radiators and remove the auto-tranny oil lines that run through the engine bay, but that is not required, nor will it impede cooling.

Once the transmission is installed, you will have to trick the car into thinking it's in park or neutral so it will start. My method was to simply plug in the neutral start switch (which can be removed from the side of the auto-transmission) and dial it to the P (park) setting. My switch now lives in the engine bay, tucked by the cruise control module. It makes an effective (if unnecessary) method of immobilization, as turning the NSS to any setting other than P (park) or N (neutral) will not allow the car to start. If you wish to be more professional (and you do, don’t you?), take a peak at the related wiring diagrams for your year vehicle. A little work on your part can provide a very clean solution.

From what I’ve researched (you’re lucky I’m so nice), the reverse light plugs differ between transmissions, meaning that once you get your fancy new 5-speed transmission installed you’ll find that you can’t plug in your reverse-lights. Some simple wiring or harness modifications will alleviate this problem.

Cruise Control:

Using the above method (of tricking the car into thinking it’s in P or N) will break your cruise control, which is unfortunate. The suggestion below will require some analysis of wiring diagrams to make sure you put the right wires in the right place. This is another one of those things that requires intelligence on your part, good luck!

Wjanusz had this to say about retaining cruise control:
Find the neutral start switch wires and run them to the clutch pedal switch. You will have to push in the clutch to start but you will still have cruise control. If you leave the old switch in park or neutral or splice in a switch the car will permanently think it's in neutral and cruise will not work. BTW at speed with the cruise on, the cruise will disengage if you hit the clutch.
In another thread, Wjanusz further elaborated (what a nice guy):
Using the existing switch and putting it in the engine bay will work for getting it started but you will no longer have cruise control. If you take the neutral start switch wires and hook them up to the clutch switch you will have cruise. You will have to hold the clutch in to start but that should be normal behavior.

The reasoning behind this is that if you permanently connect the neutral start switch (splice them together, kill switch or using the old switch permanently in park) then the car always thinks it's in neutral or park and the cruise will not work. If you use the clutch switch then the car thinks it's in neutral or park with the clutch in and thinks it's in drive when the clutch is out. When you're at speed with the cruise on, the cruise will disengage if you hit the clutch. Sounds correct to me.

My neutral start switch wires were black and white and thicker than the rest of the wires. Not sure if it's the same for all years. And they were both in the plug with 3 wires. The 3rd wire seems to be the reverse wire by the way But check everything before cutting and splicing if possible.
ECU’s (Auto or Manual):

The Auto ECU should work just fine with the manual transmission. I have never heard of any difficulties. If you have access to a 5-speed car ECU (of the same or similar year), there’s no harm in using it.

The Clutch Pedal Bracket:
http://forums.celicasupra.com/showthread.php?t=6679&highlight=clutch+bracket (Clutch bracket picture)

You will also have to fabricate a bracket or other holding device to hold the top of the clutch pedal bracket securely. Manual transmission cars have a bracket welded onto the inside of the car that holds the top of the pedal assembly. Auto cars do not. The solution I used was to drill a hole through the vent below the drivers wiper arm and thread a long bolt through that. the bolt feeds through the hole on the clutch bracket and was secured that way. Beware of leaks with this method.

Shiva had this idea:
I can't weld or anything so I think what I'm going to do is make a bracket to bolt onto the brake cage. I still have the auto brake pedal (the foot rest is sawed off)... it has a little tab with a hole that's about planar with the mounting tab for the clutch assembly. A small piece of steel flange with a few nuts and bolts to mount it looks like it will work well. Tightening the nuts might be hard to do with it in place... putting a stud in might make installation easier. I haven't done it yet but I made a crude cardboard template and it looks promising. Adjust the pedal so you're definitely disnegaging all the way, be careful using the clutch for a while, and try to find a solution in the meantime
Joefoe spoke up with this suggestion:
It was missing on mine too! What I did is drilled into the top of the foot well where the braket would of been and then with some big washers I dropper long bolts in from the outside of the car under the vents. Thsi worked out good I've had no probs with this set up.

The other thing I thought of was making up a backing plate to go agast the fire wall so it dosn't flex.
…And Suprafiend further elaborated:
I used a long stud and 4 bolts to fasten the pedal. If you pull off the leftmost vent at the bottom of the windshield, the sheet metal under there will be right where the stud needs to go through. I installed the pedal then marked where I needed the hole on this peice of sheet metal from the inside, then removed the pedal and drilled it. Then I threaded 2 bolts onto the center of the stud (which I cut to size first) then slipped the stud into both holes from the inside of the car (with the pedal installed) and threaded the bolts out till it was all snug. Then siliconed the hole through the vent and put the last 2 bolts on the ends. Its held up ok but I'd prefer a solution that braced a little better, but this definatly seems like the easiest and best solution going.
Ritua1313 did the same thing:
OK I had this exact problem, do not f**k with the welds. Just line up the clutch bracket and get a whole punch and make a indent into into the sheet metal. Go up top and remove one of the grates below the windshield. When you find your mark get a drill and drill a hole straight down. Get a long bolt and run it through making sure it works. When you get it all lined up get some JB Weld and put on the bolt so it secures it to the sheet metal. When that has dried put some silicon around the bolt to seal out moisture. Tighten up the nut on the inside and you are done. I attempted what you were thinking and then smacked myself for not thinking about this way sooner. Trust me this will save you lots of time and frustration and it works just as good.
Related Threads:

General Swap discussion:
http://forums.celicasupra.com/showthread.php?t=14585&highlight=auto+5spd+swap

Cruise Control discussion:
http://forums.celicasupra.com/showthread.php?t=21441&highlight=Auto+Manual+Swap
http://forums.celicasupra.com/showthread.php?t=21516&highlight=auto+5spd+swap

Clutch Bracket discussion:
http://forums.celicasupra.com/showthread.php?t=6679&highlight=clutch+bracket

Additional comments, suggestions, and complaints are welcome.
 

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Nice writeup Dean!!!

1 vote for being made into a Sticky in either the FAQ or the Drivetrain section.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
so whos actually did the wiring for the reverese lights?
I believe seamus (suprafiend) finally wired in the reverse lights. I'll pester him and see how difficult it was. I'm under the impression it was ridiculously easy.

Seamus has further modified the wiring setup I have described above to allow cruise control to work, amongst other things. I'll see what I can get out of him.
 

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The Clutch Pedal Bracket:
http://forums.celicasupra.com/showth...clutch+bracket (Clutch bracket picture)

You will also have to fabricate a bracket or other holding device to hold the top of the clutch pedal bracket securely. Manual transmission cars have a bracket welded onto the inside of the car that holds the top of the pedal assembly. Auto cars do not. The solution I used was to drill a hole through the vent below the drivers wiper arm and thread a long bolt through that. the bolt feeds through the hole on the clutch bracket and was secured that way. Beware of leaks with this method.

Shiva had this idea:

Quote:
I can't weld or anything so I think what I'm going to do is make a bracket to bolt onto the brake cage. I still have the auto brake pedal (the foot rest is sawed off)... it has a little tab with a hole that's about planar with the mounting tab for the clutch assembly. A small piece of steel flange with a few nuts and bolts to mount it looks like it will work well. Tightening the nuts might be hard to do with it in place... putting a stud in might make installation easier. I haven't done it yet but I made a crude cardboard template and it looks promising. Adjust the pedal so you're definitely disnegaging all the way, be careful using the clutch for a while, and try to find a solution in the meantime

Joefoe spoke up with this suggestion:

Quote:
It was missing on mine too! What I did is drilled into the top of the foot well where the braket would of been and then with some big washers I dropper long bolts in from the outside of the car under the vents. Thsi worked out good I've had no probs with this set up.

The other thing I thought of was making up a backing plate to go agast the fire wall so it dosn't flex.

…And Suprafiend further elaborated:

Quote:
I used a long stud and 4 bolts to fasten the pedal. If you pull off the leftmost vent at the bottom of the windshield, the sheet metal under there will be right where the stud needs to go through. I installed the pedal then marked where I needed the hole on this peice of sheet metal from the inside, then removed the pedal and drilled it. Then I threaded 2 bolts onto the center of the stud (which I cut to size first) then slipped the stud into both holes from the inside of the car (with the pedal installed) and threaded the bolts out till it was all snug. Then siliconed the hole through the vent and put the last 2 bolts on the ends. Its held up ok but I'd prefer a solution that braced a little better, but this definatly seems like the easiest and best solution going.

Ritua1313 did the same thing:

Quote:
OK I had this exact problem, do not f**k with the welds. Just line up the clutch bracket and get a whole punch and make a indent into into the sheet metal. Go up top and remove one of the grates below the windshield. When you find your mark get a drill and drill a hole straight down. Get a long bolt and run it through making sure it works. When you get it all lined up get some JB Weld and put on the bolt so it secures it to the sheet metal. When that has dried put some silicon around the bolt to seal out moisture. Tighten up the nut on the inside and you are done. I attempted what you were thinking and then smacked myself for not thinking about this way sooner. Trust me this will save you lots of time and frustration and it works just as good.



Why couldnt anyone just drill out the spot welds and transer the bracket over? Its not that difficult. Took me an extra 5 minutes to drill it out after the clutch pedal was out of the way. Then i used thick sheet metal screws to secure it after i transfered it to the other car. But before you screw it in, bolt up the clutch pedal first.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
The Clutch Pedal Bracket:
Why couldnt anyone just drill out the spot welds and transer the bracket over? Its not that difficult. Took me an extra 5 minutes to drill it out after the clutch pedal was out of the way. Then i used thick sheet metal screws to secure it after i transfered it to the other car. But before you screw it in, bolt up the clutch pedal first.
Because with the full interior in the car it's pretty tough to reach with a drill. By all means it's a viable solution if you can get to it.
 

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I've been meaning to add some info here since doing a few 5spd swaps in the last few months. First off, I'd just like to say that this whole write up is a great source of info for everyone! Though I've already done some 5spd swaps to my one MKI and some MKIIs in the past, it was years and years ago and this write up was very helpful - it makes it a no brainer for just about anyone. I just added my stuff below to try and keep it organized.

Auto to Manual Swap FAQ:

Some key points:

You will have to cut a small bit of the body out of the car to fit the manual shifter in, about 1/2-1" of metal. The auto-shifter hole is not large enough to allow the shifter to fully engage gears 2, 4, and Reverse.
You do need to cut out the floor slightly since the MKII/ Celica W-58 shifter location is too far forward from the auto hole location - but if someone was dead set against cutting up their car - a MKIII N/A W-58 is a 100% drop in w/ no cutting required - it fits perfectly into the existing auto hole. Everything else lines up as well - its still centered enough w/ in the console so the boot fits w/ out issue.

Once the transmission is installed, you will have to trick the car into thinking it's in park or neutral so it will start. My method was to simply plug in the neutral start switch (which can be removed from the side of the auto-transmission) and dial it to the P (park) setting. My switch now lives in the engine bay, tucked by the cruise control module. It makes an effective (if unnecessary) method of immobilization, as turning the NSS to any setting other than P (park) or N (neutral) will not allow the car to start. If you wish to be more professional (and you do, don't you?), take a peak at the related wiring diagrams for your year vehicle. A little work on your part can provide a very clean solution.
*** I can not believe this hasnt been figured out already by someone else but this is all so much easier than any of this. W/ our MKIIs - the auto subharness runs along the battery/ starter cable harness - it contains all the plugs for the auto. If you simply use the battery/ starter cable harness from a 5spd - you dont have to mess w/ anything! You eliminate all those plugs so there is no need to jump anything and it also contains the correct reverse light connector for the W-58! Its easy to get to from the donor car and its easy as could be to replace. So maybe this harness could be added to the parts list.

From what I've researched (you're lucky I'm so nice), the reverse light plugs differ between transmissions, meaning that once you get your fancy new 5-speed transmission installed you'll find that you can't plug in your reverse-lights. Some simple wiring or harness modifications will alleviate this problem.
See above... Using the 5spd battery/ starter harness will have the needed reverse light connector. One thing to mention - if you use the MKIII W-58 - it uses a different (smaller) 2 wire plug than the MKII, but it is simple enough to change the connector.

Cruise Control:
I can not say for certain if using the 5spd battery/ starter harness will effect the cruise as its not on the cars I did the swap on. I suspect that since the whole NSS issue is solved, then it should then not effect the cruise.

ECU's (Auto or Manual):

The Auto ECU should work just fine with the manual transmission. I have never heard of any difficulties. If you have access to a 5-speed car ECU (of the same or similar year), there's no harm in using it.
You can use the auto ECU w/ a 5spd in the MKI, MKII and MKIII, just not the other way around. No need to get a 5spd ECU as there are no other differences of significance.

The Clutch Pedal Bracket:

http://forums.celicasupra.com/showthread.php?t=6679&highlight=clutch+bracket (Clutch bracket picture)
You will also have to fabricate a bracket or other holding device to hold the top of the clutch pedal bracket securely. Manual transmission cars have a bracket welded onto the inside of the car that holds the top of the pedal assembly. Auto cars do not. The solution I used was to drill a hole through the vent below the drivers wiper arm and thread a long bolt through that. the bolt feeds through the hole on the clutch bracket and was secured that way. Beware of leaks with this method.
There are several ways to go about this as many have pointed out. I found that the easiest way to do it was use the stock 5spd bracket. I just drilled out the 4 spot welds from a parts car and then bolted it to the pedal bracket - put it in place, bolting it to the clutch master and then used fusear (sp?) to bond the bracket to the correct location under the dash. I got the stuff from a local body shop - its this chemical metal welding chalk type stuff that is used on many newer cars right from the factory to attach 1/4's, roofs, or different types of metals (like an aluminum skin to a steel brace or frame). I've had it on my '85 hardtop since last year and no issues (I installed the pedals a little bit before actually doing the rest of the swap) . Very easy to do and didnt require any cutting or drilling into my supra, but even w/ out the fusear, you could just bolt the bracket inplace where the spot welds were.

Here are some pics of the stock bracket location:
From above - this parts car had a rusted out cowl - I just cut back some of the sheet metal and drilled out the spot welds from the top.

From below - pretty easy to get to; this car still had the whole dash still in place (just the lower section was off).

The bracket itself (ignore the nuts and bolts)



Additional comments, suggestions, and complaints are welcome.
Lastly - I was just wondering if it would be a good idea to also add this as a sticky in the drivetrain section...
Thanx again to SliP and everyone else that helped put this all together!
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Thanks for adding that info Damon! I did the swap way back in 2003 and it was done on a somewhat rushed basis - your information regarding the harness is particularly useful.
 

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I had a parts car that I drilled out the clutch pedal bracket and then I attatched it to the pedal assembly and lined it up to the fire wall and then welded it without any problems. I had some wet towels to keep the carpet from catching on fire.

Also in regards to the reverse lights I just used the manual computer out of the parts car and did not have any problems. I also used the wiring harness from the manual car to hook up to the transmission so no issues with the reverse lights.
 

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'84 Dark Blue Converted to 5 Spd... '85 ..gradually acquiring parts to Turbo ... have 82 Engine
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@ Turbo MkII re: Auto/5 Spd Swap

In the FAQ section, when U said "You do need to cut out the floor slightly since the MKII/ Celica W-58 shifter location is too far forward from the auto hole location"....when U are referring to the "floor", you just mean the hump that the center console sits on right??

Nothing has to be done to the actual "floor", just to the opening where the gear shift lever goes through, right??

Just want to clarify this BEFORE I get halfway thru...

A prompt response would really, be appreciated as I'll probably start on it tomorrow.

Thanks,

Dave

BTW Ur PM box is full so I couldn't PM U directly....
 

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crashtest dummy
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In the FAQ section, when U said "You do need to cut out the floor slightly since the MKII/ Celica W-58 shifter location is too far forward from the auto hole location"....when U are referring to the "floor", you just mean the hump that the center console sits on right??

Nothing has to be done to the actual "floor", just to the opening where the gear shift lever goes through, right??

Just want to clarify this BEFORE I get halfway thru...

A prompt response would really, be appreciated as I'll probably start on it tomorrow.

Thanks,

Dave

BTW Ur PM box is full so I couldn't PM U directly....
e-mails e-mails e-mails... I leave my PMs full on purpose.
Anyway - yes, the floor you need to cut out is just the hole in the trans hump. Your original auto shifter opening is not centered correctly for the MKII W-58. Its really no big deal - I just cut it w/ tin snips and folded it back.
 

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I should have posted this long ago:
You can see the original location of the forward mounting nuts that are cutted through
I cut it to clear the rubber boot, and then
I have pop-riveted a copper bar with threaded holes in place
to replace the 2 missings one. This way you don't need someone under to hold the nuts.

 

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Great info. this place is the shiznit. If you can't find it at CS.com, you better not try it.
 

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yes but will a mk3 trasnmission work with a 5m-ge??
just owned my mk3 and looking into a mk2 but its auto, and im almost done taking out my engine from the mk3 trany and drive shafts are out, as welll as most of the engine bay and exhaust

can i put the tranny onto a 5m-ge ???
if so i wanna drive it like that until i can rebuild my 7mge
 

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yes but will a mk3 trasnmission work with a 5m-ge??
just owned my mk3 and looking into a mk2 but its auto, and im almost done taking out my engine from the mk3 trany and drive shafts are out, as welll as most of the engine bay and exhaust

can i put the tranny onto a 5m-ge ???
if so i wanna drive it like that until i can rebuild my 7mge
yes you can., but you still have to get the hard line from the MC to the sleeve cylinder.
 

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yes you can., but you still have to get the hard line from the MC to the sleeve cylinder.
There is quite a bit more work than that involved since the '84 is an auto and he wants to swap in a 5 speed.
 

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There is quite a bit more work than that involved since the '84 is an auto and he wants to swap in a 5 speed.
i thought since he posted in this thread, he MUST read the whole thread which explain you the whole process, agreed is a lot of work if you dont know what are you dealing with.
 

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and the w58 in the mkiii supras have a longer rear transmission housing iirc
The shifter housing and inner rod selector are set further back on top from the MK3's.

i thought since he posted in this thread, he MUST read the whole thread which explain you the whole process, agreed is a lot of work if you dont know what are you dealing with.
I figured he did no research into the subject at all since it has been stated that there is very little difference between the MK2 and MK3 Supra W58 on this forum many times.
 

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i did read the thread, but i still dont have any idea as to what i would need to buy or change to make my 87 tranny work on the 5mge 84 celica supra
if im in the wrong thread can u tell me where the right one is??
 
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