Toyota Celica Supra Forum banner

1 - 20 of 79 Posts

·
I <3 my supra
Joined
·
427 Posts
Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
I originally got the car from My cousin. It had been sitting for 10 years in the woods. He finally towed it to his house, and I came to get it.
This is how I got it...




I immediatedly went to work. It was missing the intake, the injectors, it was put together outta time, had no intake piping, no afm..., no dizzy...
I dug around in some engine parts behind my cousins house and found the intake burried in the mud and dog shit. I cleaned it and painted it, painted the valve covers, found the dizzy somewhere in his house.





The inside was piled with junk and full of rat terds.
Before


After(best I could do not having a vacuum that day.


I then went to the junk yard, autozone, and got everything needed to make it run. So I got it running, and washed the car hardcore.





Yeah, I know some lines are routed wrong. lol

Then I heard a valve tap before I ever even drove it, so, frustrated, I sold my GTP.

It previously recieved a built motor which failed due to a shotty timing belt tensioner.



I got a running 6mge



After Install


Ok, So I have a good running 6mge in my car right now, drove it a few times, pretty mean.
The block is studded, upgraded with a modified 81 Chevy alternator, Mechanical fan delete, p/s delete, a/c delete.
So I got my hands on this stuff today, and my friend has more where that came from.
















This will be a track only car, well mostly.
I've read a lot, and everyone uses these FMU's, but i'm leary of them. I want plenty of fuel at 6000 rpms, not to be wondering if my fmu is working properly, or worried i might bust a 30 year old fuel line from too much pressure. So nothing less than 440's for my supra.
Any opinions will be appreciated, and Thanks for reading.






My 160LPH Bosch fuel pump.




New used GM alternator




Block Stamp, proof of 6m goodness.






Freshly painted turbo exhaust manifold.


Out With The Old & LAME




Could see a benefit from a portmatch.My guess is thats about an 1/8" lip.


In with the New










UPDATE

Just got this Downpipe in today. The bolt holes need drilling out on the flange but appears to be perfect fit otherwise, and plenty of ground clearance, and is solid 3 inches mandrel bent and I am very impressed with the quality for only $102.00 including shipping. Picture looks like its smaller in the flex section, but its not, its a very nice pipe.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/7MGTE-MK3-MKIII-Downpipe-86-92-Toyota-Supra-Turbo-3-/130557726226?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item1e65d8ce12&vxp=mtr


Also got a Sunpro air fuel meter. Yeah its not the greatest and a narrowband, but will at least let me know if im uber lean. Gonna try and take it for a drive this coming week.


3" CX racing downpipe.



I temporarily mounted a cheapo a/f gauge so I could tell what was going on during my idle adjustment, I was in a hurry, so its installed via Gorilla tape. :)



Got this intercooler for 10 bux, gonna install it tomorrow or the next day



With the Idle mixture screw on the afm I was able to get the idle leaned out, I have the screw turned all the way lean, and the afm leaned 3 or 4 clicks. However I still haven't took it for a drive because the sock in the fuel tank is clogging up and killing my fuel pressure, so i gotta drop the tank again for a good derusting.
I believe this setup will be just fine with the 440's and stock ecu and afm mod boosting at stock psi. Running the wastegate boost reference from the intake instead of the compressor to eliminate the pressure loss from the intercooler, and may run a boost controller so i can turn it up in case of emergency, but I'm not turn up past 10 psi on the stock timing curve. Will keep updating. Lookout for new pics and video coming soon.


UPDATE!!! Aug 2016
















Purs like a kitten warmed up

CURRENT MODS LIST:
True 6mge swap,
head studs,
ACL Bearings
440cc 7mgte blacktop injectors & clips,
dual fuel pumps in parallel,
96 Toyota 4 Runner Sr5 fuel filter
81 GM 3 Wire Alternator, converted to one wire.
7mgte factory turbo manifold
CT26 turbo
2 1/4"- 2 3/8" intercooler piping hot side, 2 3/8" - 3" cold side, 7mgte 3000 pipe.
AFM leaned out
Power steering delete
A/c delete
Mechanical fan delete
Gutted
Sound deadening mats delete
Cold start as extra injector during scramble boost
3" boost/vac gauge
Fuel pressure Gauge
Timing at 10 *
93 octane
Sunpro narrowband A/f meter
3" Downpipe
HKS Front mount intercooler
Scramble boost
Boost reference taken post intercooler
84 ECU
3" short ram intake
Fuel cell
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,721 Posts
Does the 6M block have a knock sensor in it? If not, you will have to find a way to attach one...

7MGTE rods are stronger than the stock 7M/6M rods, so would be an upgrade. The pistons would likely fit, but may cause it to have such low static compression that there would be no power without boost.

A friend once stuck a turbo on his 83 without any ignition tuning/boost retard. He burned through a head gasket in less than 40 miles. He was also hitting fuel cut at 7-8 psi with stock injectors and a Walbro fuel pump. You better know what you're doing when you try piecing together a turbo system, or it gets expensive in a hurry!
 

·
I <3 my supra
Joined
·
427 Posts
Discussion Starter #4
Does the 6M block have a knock sensor in it? If not, you will have to find a way to attach one...

You better know what you're doing when you try piecing together a turbo system, or it gets expensive in a hurry!
Yea, it has a knock sensor.
And that's a fact. No way I'd try to run with any boost on stock injectors. Lotsa hills where I live.

As far as pistons go, is it common for stock gte pistons to have full floating wrist pints, with the little clips that hold them in?
 

·
POTATO
Joined
·
17,301 Posts
All 6M blocks have knock sensors. They were cast in 1986 so knocks were standard by that time.


Can't believe you found a 6M in the junkyard. Hate my life so much right now -.-
 

·
I <3 my supra
Joined
·
427 Posts
Discussion Starter #7
New Pics in thread. Will also be updated again later tonight. Planned test fit of turbo and manifold + pics!!! :)
 

·
BIG BOSS HOSS
Joined
·
4,460 Posts
I originally got the car from My cousin. It had been sitting for 10 years in the woods. He finally towed it to his house, and I came to get it.


Maybe tune with safc or aem fuel ignition controller. Whats most likely to work properly?
Plans are to max out the setup, and upgrade the turbo, manifold, intercooler, piping, and injectors a piece at a time, then max that out.
Serious $ down the road and most have given up because of the time/costs/headaches involved..
I've grenaded a few turbo motors, I know now that ugrading fuel is nessecary, and that retarding timing is good to prevent detonation, I .
If that's the case just walk away or swap in something that will work properly from the start, like 7mgte's and 1/2jzgte's.
I've read a lot, and everyone uses these FMU's, which are junk as far as I can tell. I want plenty of fuel at 6000 rpms, not to be wondering if my fmu is working properly.
What about dropping in the 440's, and tightening the afm to tune? Is that a workable fuel tuning option? I don't care if it runs rich, I just dont want gassy oil, or to run lean.
Won't even come close to running right with 440's. The AFM adjust will do little with bigger injectors, and IIRC you can't use a SAFC on 82's. I built a 6mgte 295cc, SAFCII and a BEGI ARRFPR - like the AFM adjust, the AFC did little changing the tune with 5m ECU. It never ran right, the tune changed day to day. Even when boosting, the power output was paltry compared to my 7mgte car which at that time was similar in mods. Save your self some(alot) headaches and get a 7mgte or JZ type.
 

·
I <3 my supra
Joined
·
427 Posts
Discussion Starter #9
Whywould I do that, I think the 6m is more than capable of keeping up with, if not outdoing, any 7m if done right. More valve area.stock for stock. 6m=200hp, 7m =200hp 7mgte=267? if the 6m and 7m are eqqual in N/a form then they should be relatively equal under 20psi, except for the fact that the 6m has bigger valve's and can take more boost, without burning a valve, so, maybe it's the 7'm that's not worth it. 6m on 7m electroics or standalone will take more punishment than the 7m.
And my car is an 83 on an 84 computer.
 

·
BIG BOSS HOSS
Joined
·
4,460 Posts
Whywould I do that, I think the 6m is more than capable of keeping up with, if not outdoing, any 7m if done right. More valve area.stock for stock. 6m=200hp, 7m =200hp 7mgte=267? if the 6m and 7m are eqqual in N/a form then they should be relatively equal under 20psi, except for the fact that the 6m has bigger valve's and can take more boost, without burning a valve, so, maybe it's the 7'm that's not worth it. 6m on 7m electroics or standalone will take more punishment than the 7m.
And my car is an 83 on an 84 computer.
lol... Just making up facts as you go, huh? Everything stated there is completely false.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
4,065 Posts
lol... Just making up facts as you go, huh? Everything stated there is completely false.
X2.

He burned through a head gasket in less than 40 miles. He was also hitting fuel cut at 7-8 psi with stock injectors and a Walbro fuel pump.
HUH. This is also way wrong. How does a 5M ecu hit fuel cut when it has no idea its even turbo'd? 5M assumes airflow based on a the position of the flapper door in the AFM. Door all the way open=max flow. It does not "measure" air flow like a 7MGTE(or any engine for that matter) MAF. Spark blow out or surging from running rich, but a stock 5M ecu is definitely not hitting fuel cut because it thinks its flowing too much air.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,474 Posts
i had a 6m that i built with 7mgte pistons and rods. it was a dog.... i never did get a chance to boost that one but i can tell you this. it had less bottom end torque than my 265,xxx mile 5mge has and my 5m is in a heavier car.

i have also owned / lived with an all original 6M (stock with its OEM higher compression pistons) the difference was night and day.

if you are going to take that route i would get good condition used GTE rods but buy the pistons new. you can buy NEW NPR 7mgte pistons with a ring set for a pretty fair price.

oh yeah and uhhhh, MEGASQUIRT!!!!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,721 Posts
X2.

HUH. This is also way wrong. How does a 5M ecu hit fuel cut when it has no idea its even turbo'd? 5M assumes airflow based on a the position of the flapper door in the AFM. Door all the way open=max flow. It does not "measure" air flow like a 7MGTE(or any engine for that matter) MAF. Spark blow out or surging from running rich, but a stock 5M ecu is definitely not hitting fuel cut because it thinks its flowing too much air.
X3. JDM 6MGE measures 190hp and that is with the Karmen Vortex AFM and their different way of rating power over there.

Now fuel cut - - his words, not mine. He had an 83 and threw a turbo on it, fuel pump and RRFPR and that was IT. He loosened the AFM spring a couple of clicks too, and kept the stock fuel injectors. I have no experience with turbos, so I was just quoting what he'd said at the time. You are probably right about spark blowout, since nothing was done with the ignition system. That car was SO FAR from correctly done...

Also about the real 6MGE, it did NOT come with the higher compression pistons stock. This is why building a hybrid 6M with the late pistons will get you more power than the JDM 6M. Nice to know that the GTE pistons will fit with the 5M head, even if it won't really "work" (as in having good power). :)
 

·
POTATO
Joined
·
17,301 Posts
please do some thorough research before you a. blow the motor to pieces b. waste a ton of money and probably end up junking the car

if you're that into boosting a 6MGE, here's some basic advice;
Buy a standalone for engine management. period. 5M ecu is good for maybe 220rwhp and that's it. No way around it. The electronics to make sure the engine doesn' eat itself is where alk the money is going to go to.

do NOT use 7MGTE pistons. That doesn't even make sense. Match the pistons to the head. 2 valve piston for a 2 valve head. It's going to run like complete ass if you do that, as was already stated.
 

·
I <3 my supra
Joined
·
427 Posts
Discussion Starter #17 (Edited)
I was whrong about valve area being equal but...
Taken from wikepedia.
Output was 170-190 hp (127-142 kW) at 5600 rpm and 170–192 lb·ft (230-260 Nm) at 4400 rpm. The 6M-GEU is usually the lower powered variant of 6M engines, due to more restrictive exhaust and increased emissions-control hardware. Even though it was never offered in US-market vehicles, it is sometimes imported from countries where it was available and transplanted into US-market Celica Supras and MX63 and MX73 Cressidas, since it is externally identical to the 5M-GE.

Applications:

Toyota Crown
Toyota Soarer (MZ12)

7M-GE

The Toyota 7M-GE introduced in the early months of 1986 is a 3.0-litre (2954 cc) 24-valve (4 valves per cylinder) DOHC/fuel-injected engine. The valves are spaced at a performance-oriented 50° angle. Cylinder bore is 83 mm (3.27 in) and stroke is 91 mm (3.58 in).

The 7M-GE was produced from 1986 through 1992. Output was 190-204 hp (142-152 kW) at 6000 rpm and 185–196 lb·ft (250-265 Nm) at 4800 rpm.

.........................
Fairly equal.

Also, this is why I plan to stay with the 6m and not go 7m... If I ever swap, it'll be for the 2jz, might swap blocks, but I plan to run this head until its a paperwieght
Taken from Toysport .com. These guys seem to know what they are talking about.


The 5MGE 2800cc DOHC (dual overhead cam) was introduced in the U.S. Supra in 1982. This Twin Cam was also used on the U.S. Cressida in 1983. This engine was the first production 6 cylinder Toyota Twin Cam- since the 3M Toyota 2000GT (a limited production model). This power plant was one of the main reasons the Supra became very popular, and a Toyota milestone model. In 1984 the EFI (electronic fuel injection) was updated to a digital system and the compression raised, this brought the horsepower up from 145 to 160.

In Japan, a 6MGE 3000cc model was introduced in 1986 that was rated at 200 HP. The engine was identical to the 5MG in design, but related parts to the pistons and crankshaft were different. It is interesting to note that the 6MG was rated by Toyota with the same horsepower as the successor 7MGE 3000cc (a 24 valve model) but with a better torque band! In fact it used a 7MG crankshaft before the 7MG was introduced.

The Twin Cam head is a G type- meaning Sports Type. Also a first for Toyota- the head featured hydraulic valve adjustment, eliminating the shims (which most mechanics feared). This engine allowed Toyota to position the Supra above all the other Japanese models and on par with the leading European manufacturers.

Toyota's philosophy in product design, which is based on continuing evolution, shows distinctly in this engine. The M block started life as a 2000cc, became the 2M 2300cc., the 4M 2600cc., and the 5M 2800 cc. The 5MG and 6MG Twin Cam (12 valves), which preceded the 7MG (24 valves), allowed Toyota Twin Cam power in a whole new market segment (the 6 cylinder Twin Cam heads were previously available only in the 3M). Toyota's vaunted dependability and reliability is evolved. The Twin Cam head is a crowning act on Toyota's legendary block.

In competition we used the 5MG-powered Supras for showroom stock racing (SCCA SSA) and in the IMSA Firestone Endurance Series. The cars ran trouble free, won a lot of races, and even held track records in Willow Springs. (In fact Nissan supplied us with an Anniversary 300ZX to campaign also, but it was not as successful.) As a real GT (Grand Touring) the 5MG was incomparable to any engine in its class.

This engine ignited a lot of interest for aftermarket parts manufacturers. Engine kits for 2900cc and even 3100cc were available, but very expensive. Powerboat racing saw many 5MGs screaming in open sea events- another testimony to the engines durability. In power boat racing the engines are revving flat-out like in 1st gear all the time.

MODIFYING THE 5MG/ 6MG

Block: The 5th generation 5MG has a tested and proven bottom end. The 5MG responds extremely well to the 2900cc conversion or the 3100cc engine kit. In 2900cc form we have proved that the Supra will out accelerate Mustangs and Camaros in the racetracks and actually outrace them on the straights. Basic block preparation is all that is needed, no secrets here. The head gasket can cause serious wear on the block surface, so it is a good idea to deck them. A cost effective upgrade is to go 6MG.

Although the 6MG looks externally similar- internal components are different. You cannot drop a 6MG crank on a 5MG without changing related pieces- timing cover, pulleys, pistons, etc. For practical and cost purposes if you want to have 3000cc., get a complete 6MG. The 5MG / 6MG has a durable bottom end and will out last the cylinder heads before needing attention.

Cylinder Head: The cylinder heads suffer from abnormal wear from carbon build up. The EGR causes oil to deteriorate sooner than some engines and leaves a lot of accumulated carbon. Prepare the head with a port and polish treatment, this is a good value in terms of added performance. Headers and exhaust systems will help allow the engine to breath since the cars they powered were tuned for quiet GT luxury touring.

The 6MG intake manifold uses bigger intake runners. This will bolt to the 5MG head, but does not have provisions for EGR. In fact, if you are upgrading to a 6MG- you have to transfer all the related 5MG EGR pieces to the new engines. Everything is transferable. Make sure that the EGR is clean and decarbonized- it will ensure passing smog requirements.

There are aftermarket cams available, but unless the compression is raised the cams are of no use. Adjustable cam gears are also mandatory because these engines are very sensitive to camshaft settings. The cam towers need close inspection during rebuilding. Since the cams have a tendency to wear out- the towers may also be bad.

Turbo-upgrade: For all-out power Turbo charging is the way to go. Mandatory forged pistons will allow the engine to see and survive boost levels higher than the 7MGTE. An advantage is that the valves are bigger (although less in number) which will survive the heat better than the smaller valves of the 7MGTE (24 valves). Under boost the advantage of 24 valves is minimized. EFI upgrades are necessary to maintain the correct A/F ratio. There are Twin Turbo manifolds available from HKS and we have a couple remaining, this includes a new plenum! Properly set-up, a 5MG Turbocharged easily outrun 7MGTs similarly equipped with upgrades (the bodies were considerably lighter and the engines responded better- pound for pound of boost.

Fuel System: The fuel injection system was upgraded in the later models, but the effect on performance was from raised compression. Unless the engine is turbocharged there is no need for any modification.

Ignition System: Any modified engine will need step colder spark plugs. The standard ignition is adequate, but can be supplemented with ignition upgrades. Although advancing the timing setting helps, be conservative (past the factory specs) since the knock sensors will automatically retard the ignition.



Some Recommended Set-ups:

For Stock configuration- The six cylinder in-line engine is a smooth power plant. The Twin Cam head allows it to rev much higher than any head configuration. This provides a smooth and powerful power source. Upgrade to the 84 pistons if you need to oversize. The cylinder head can be ported with no effect on emissions. Use a machine shop that is experienced in working with these aluminum heads and thoroughly inspect the cam towers also.

For Modified configuration- The 2900cc piston set or the 3100cc will be the ultimate set-up in naturally aspirated form. These will produce over 230 (2.9L) / 250 (3.1L) HP with no further modifications. Head preparation must be done to allow the bigger displacement to breathe properly.

The 6MG is a cost effective alternative. The fuel injection system on the late 5MG and 6MG are the same, to install the 6MG in an early 5MG- all the sensors including the TPS (throttle positioner sensor) must be transferred.

For Racing configuration- Race regulations allow specific limited modifications. If allowed the displacement upgrades will be ideal. Radical camshafts will need a reprogrammed ECU or an entirely new one (Tech II or similar unit). Anticipated horsepower over 400 will need new connecting rods, the crankshaft will be fine with correct bearing clearances and chamfered oil holes. Disable the EGR. We have available a limited number of Triple side draft manifolds- which will also need a direct fire ignition system (since the distributor is disabled).

http://www.toysport.com/technical information/5m_6m_tech_notes.htm

Also, I still have the spare motor...The 5m, and It ran, so...I'm planning to go through it and rebuild it for a good spare soon. Not too worried about breaking something as this is not a daily driver.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,474 Posts
When i had the 6m with the 7mgte pistons in it, it WAS an interference engine. forgot to mention that...

why dont you get yourself some GTE rods and just use a thicker MHG if you want to lower compression?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,721 Posts
You can't trust Wikipedia for factual information, since any Joe Shmoe can add/edit it. The 6M is actually closer to 175hp, and the 7MGE is 200hp. The power is in the head, and the better breathing that comes with the later heads. People who stay with the 6MGE don't do it for power; they do it because it's a period-correct engine and they like the way it looks in the engine bay.
 
1 - 20 of 79 Posts
Top