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I like the looks of it, and have no doubt all the BMW parts are quality kit - their engines are very well tuned and have great driving manners. All that being said, 2 things:

-The engine won't be able to have massive modifications done to make huge reliable power like a 2JZ. Those days are done with pretty much any engine, especially an aluminum block BMW one.

-You need to understand that what you are buying is a BMW. And be prepared for the associated maintenance and parts cost that comes along with it. They are great cars, but like any german car they are over complicated, hard to work on and parts are expensive.
Early N54 engines were fairly overbuilt - a lot of forged internals.

Boy did BMW correct that in a hurry
 

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Discussion Starter · #43 ·
0-60 is such a meaningless statistic IMO like ring lap times. So much of that is launch control and traction in lab grade conditions. If it was the only thing the Tesla Model S would be the best sports car of all time. If you look thru the mag comparo tests the Camaro is neck and neck with the MkVs faster BMW sister cars the M2 comp and M4. Usually the Camaro is faster on the track and right there in acceleration. Considering you can pick up a Camaro for almost 20k less doesn't look good. I'm no Camaro lover (man the 2019 version is ugly....), but this thing is Camaroish performance at Corvette money with BMW reliability. The no manual transmission is icing on the cake. I really want to love this thing, but on paper it looks barely better than my BRZ with the supercharger on it. Everybody keeps talking about this super version Toyota is making with a new engine, and I think they're smoking crack. Considering the level of effort Toyota has put into this thing, it will probably have the Z4 engine minus 1 hp and some other parts from the BMW parts bin.
0-60 tells you way more then peak Crank HP. Everything has launch control these days, so if you compare 2 rwd car's with it, it gives you a much better idea of straight line speed then random engine stats. I agree with most of your comments, but Supra's have always been more money then the equivalent American muscle cars. They didn't benchmark those cars when developing this thing, or the vette, they were after the Cayman. I think its better to compare this to other small, light nimble 2 seat sports cars. Its cheaper then the equivalent BMWs and the Cayman. But yeah, a GT86 with a 2jz swap is a far better deal and is essentially the same thing with far more Toyota DNA in it. But new cars, engine swaps don't really come into the picture at this stage. Lets talk again in 10 years when BMW depreciation has taken a bite out of this thing, might be a good deal then lol.
 

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Discussion Starter · #44 ·
Early N54 engines were fairly overbuilt - a lot of forged internals.

Boy did BMW correct that in a hurry
ehhhh, a lot of that didn't mean much though because open deck magnesium block. That motor has not done well reliability and mod wise. b58 is closed deck all aluminum, and still has a forged crank, not sure about the rods and pistons but they seem to handle 2x stock hp\torque ok. Technically the 2jzgte doesn't have forged pistons either.
 

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ehhhh, a lot of that didn't mean much though because open deck magnesium block. That motor has not done well reliability and mod wise. b58 is closed deck all aluminum, and still has a forged crank, not sure about the rods and pistons but they seem to handle 2x stock hp\torque ok. Technically the 2jzgte doesn't have forged pistons either.
I had always heard good thing about aftermarket N54 engines running high HP, there's talks of people running 7xx HP on N54s without hitting the limits of the block, open deck or not.

This is just a forum post but https://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=682643
 

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BOOM!
It is not that much fun.
The manufacturers just had to go with what works and who was in bed with them.
When they combine their efforts,the final product us usually a combination and a good out come of a GOOD THING.
2 is better than one,usually.
Look at how many companies have "merged".
However, I would not suggest a product out of the gate at the first year..... EVER.
 

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I think a Kia Stinger is a better buy in a couple years, but that's because it has more room.
 

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Discussion Starter · #49 ·
Similar power train but totally different kind of car. This may be the best Supra yet on track in stock form, looking forward to production reviews.
 

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Talk about anticlimactic, waiting 20 years for 15 more HP, with no manual transmission for what is a BMW with hideous styling. It's so ugly, the back end looks like the alien from Alien vs Predator.:eekfacepalm: Say if it had 500HP, one might overlook the styling but it's stats belong in the early 2000s. Given the horsepower wars over the last 7-10 years the MKV is already a dinosaur. Sorry, I'll take a new 460HP(underrated) Mustang GT equipped with a 6 speed manual over the MKV.:ugh:
 

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The 700hp Mustang version is something serious!
 

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It's so ugly, the back end looks like the alien from Alien vs Predator.
Dammit Wade! I wish you hadn't said that. I was just so relieved they didn't put a Lexus predator grill on the new Supra. Now you've ruined the back end for me. LOL! Its obvious Toyota/Lexus designers were big fans of the movie franchise even if they just did it subconsciously. ;)
 

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This car is gross, in no way an icon like the mkiv. Hopefully it will fail miserably and Toyota will step up and build an actual Supra.
That's rather backwards thinking. If it fails miserably, that means they'll lose money and never try a sports car ever again. Happened before when they killed off the Celica and MR2, a Toyota executive was quoted as saying that Toyota was leaving the sports car market altogether, calling sports car buyers too "fickle". If this doesn't work, they'll just concentrate on making boring, practical cars that they know they can make a profit on. The new Supra only exists on the whim of one executive who has the passion and this partnership was a way to make it happen without risking too much of the stock portfolios of the other executives. You can be sure they're gunning for him if that other executive proves to be right. Lets hope its wildly successful, then they may be confident enough to go it alone on the mk6 or maybe even bring back the mid-engined MR2. If it fails, there won't be a third chance.
 

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That's rather backwards thinking. If it fails miserably, that means they'll lose money and never try a sports car ever again. Happened before when they killed off the Celica and MR2, a Toyota executive was quoted as saying that Toyota was leaving the sports car market altogether, calling sports car buyers too "fickle". If this doesn't work, they'll just concentrate on making boring, practical cars that they know they can make a profit on. The new Supra only exists on the whim of one executive who has the passion and this partnership was a way to make it happen without risking too much of the stock portfolios of the other executives. You can be sure they're gunning for him if that other executive proves to be right. Lets hope its wildly successful, then they may be confident enough to go it alone on the mk6 or maybe even bring back the mid-engined MR2. If it fails, there won't be a third chance.
I guess I would hope they would want to save face. If it does fail and they decide to only make beige sedans you can always but a Z4. Lol
 

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I honestly don't think Toyota is capable of making a car like the MkIV these days. If you look across most of their lineup it's pretty not competitive or innovative. I think they only reason they've held on is they are still reliable in peoples minds. If you only want a beige car on 4 wheels that always runs Toyota has you covered. Toyota seems more focused on manufacturing than their car design.

It kind of reminds me of Bob Lutz's book talking about the old GM and how hamstrung they were with design rules from 40 or 50 yrs ago that made them non competitive with the competition. If you look at the last sports car they designed the LFA they spent so long developing it by the time it came out the rest of the industry had moved two to 3 steps forward. Remind anyone of the new NSX failure?
 
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As much as it pains me to admit it, times have changed and one has to move on with them.

Truth is, from a styling view, I think that the Mk IV Supra is odd looking. With the passage of 26 years since it was introduced, the shape has become comfortable like an old shoe, but to me, it has strange proportions, and is certainly not a classic shape like a 1960s or 1970s Ferrari.

The proportions of the Mark IV's greenhouse to belt line are wrong .... this is all personal opinion of course.

The fearsome reputation of the car, and it's fame in movies affect our perception of what is good looking. It's like having good memories of a girlfriend. When you look back at pictures 28 years later you go "what was I thinking" whereas one's memories include more than just the physical looks. Call it personality.....I remember talking to my brother-in-law about a girl who asked me out on a date. I told him that she wasn't really a nice person, but had a rather fabulous body. My brother-in-law replied "Personality? You won't even notice that for two years!"

Give it a couple of years and we'll have to look back on this thread to see if we still have questions about the Mark V's looks

Dale
 

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Personally I never liked the mk4 styling very much either. On the email list back in the day all of us mk2 owners used to call it "the jelly bean" when it was in production. (The mk3 was "the whale"). Even despite Wade's observations, I think I like the new mk5 styling better than the mk4 however I'll need to wait till I can see one in the flesh.
 
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