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the 15's i have have plenty of padding. they actually clear the hub by alot more then my enkei's. i theink this will work for the blue car when i put the 15's on it. i still want the bbk for the black car. the enkei's dont have as much clearance.
william
 

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This is all very interesting! Methinks I'll be scouring the import yards for a set of R32 brakes. And considering I'm doing a 5-stud conversion (using MS65 Crown hubs) I won't even have to re-drill the rotors. Sweet!

Good info Frank. :)
 

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Hmm, I was also thinking of the MS65 hub upgrade down the track, would be interesting do see what rotors are available in the DBA catalog, how much bigger in overall rotor height do you reckon would be available?
 

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Discussion Starter #26
Easier to do this....

1, Mount the Z32 caliper on the MK2 strut. It fits so perfect it's scary. Even the stock MK2 mounting bolts have the exact same thread pattern and length needed.
2. Buy discs in 11" diamter from AP Racing (280x25), Coleman (11X1) or Wilwood (11X.81). Again a perfect diameter fit for the stock Z32 caliper and pads fitted to the MK2.
3. Fabricate two hats that are flat with a large center hole for the hub center, four holes (100x4) for mounting it to the hub and finally the outer holes to mount the disc. Yes there are VW discs, but the hat is just a little too tall and you will need to machine the inside of the hub and VW disc.
4. Fabricate four shims shaped like the pads because you are using a narrower discs than the stock Z32. The thickness of the shims depends on the disc width used.
5. Use a 1" adapter and mount wheels that are the appropriate offset, because the caliper is incredibly wide. Or find wheels with a thick hub center (like these http://ca.geocities.com/mk2supra1985/wheels ) . Notice on the Japanese web site they used adapters as well.

I posted a picture of the shims I made.

http://ca.geocities.com/mk2supra1985/brakes

My 16" to 17" wheel conversion is the reason I said it goes hand in hand with another project I did. I already have the adapters. Easy to find wheels if you use the right adapter.

I wanted to do the least amount of machining possible. The shims are easy to make, the hats are the only thing that may cost you money at a machine shop. These parts never wear, so you never have to replace them. Every other part (pads and discs) is easy to buy and replace. The less we take off (machine) the less strength we give up in the stock parts.

That's why I didn't go the route of using the stock Z32 rotors. Remember the stock hubs have no races so if they wear early you will have to resurface the new ones before installing them. An adapter is needed to hold the caliper and still an adapter for mounting the wheel. The discs need to be redrilled (with both bolt patterns on the discs there may be balancing issues).

I will post everything I do once I complete the project.

I will be trying the stock MK2 wheel and tyre setup with a 1" adapter on a MK2 to see just how it fits. If remember correctly the wheel did go around the big caliper... just.

There are so many variations on completing this project. That's why I didn't want to say anything till it was figured out.
 

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FYI I just learned that R33/R34 Skyline calipers are a similar size to the R32 items but they're constructed from alloy as opposed to cast iron, so obviously they're much lighter and also dissipate heat better. Anyone considering this upgrade should try to get their hands on R33 or R34 calipers if possible. :)
 

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Discussion Starter #28
FYI I just learned that R33/R34 Skyline calipers are a similar size to the R32 items but they're constructed from alloy as opposed to cast iron, so obviously they're much lighter and also disapate heat better.
There are actually three types of calipers that came on the '89 to '96 300zx. One is iron and the other two are aluminum.

I have one of the aluminum styles. Here is a great link for more on 300zx calipers.

http://www.princeton.edu/~asad/zbrakes/

These calipers are identical fitment as some Infinities and other Nissans such as the Skyline R32.

The reason I chose to work with these calipers over any Toyota 4 pistons was the mount pattern. As I stated before the mount hole placement is exactly the same as the MK2s. The bolt size, length and thread pattern is exactly the same also. This makes mounting them easy, no adapter. The bonus is the caliper mount hieght is perfect for 280mm (11") discs, right down to the 2" pad to disc surface.

Make sure the R33/34 calipers have the same measurements as the ones I used. Do you need more measurements?

I just went out and tried the stock 14" Ptype wheels with a 1" adapter and the caliper, no way. 15" and bigger, try the wheels first.

I still prefer to fabricate a custom hat over machining the face of the hub. Better to leave what's there if possible to try and keep the strength up.

Once I get the discs I will fabricate some hats and post the dimensions.
 

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Very interesting rsdeo!
I guess theres more than one way to skin a cat huh? I actually like the idea of using the ap disks with fabbed hats.

BTW...about the wheel adapter... I read on the japanese website that the 1" adapter was temporary. It was only for the +24mm BBS RS's that he had until he got those -5mm works' that you see there on the home page.

Karaki: about the 40mm RCA....they were a one off item. And the coilovers are custom shortened strut cases with some kind of spring perch and threaded sleeve kinda like on this ae86 strut casing from techno toy tuning.

He's using tokico HTS struts for an AE86 with a 25mm strut tube spacer, and some 9kg 230mm springs with an inner diameter of 75mm.

In the rear he's using normal stroke TRD shocks for an AE86. With some 7kg springs.

Im not to sure on how this setup is working for him though. It doesnt really say.
 

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Discussion Starter #30
Frank

I like the AP Racing discs as well, they are just hard to get over here on this side of the pond. The fact that they are 5mm thicker than the stock MK2 discs will greatly help dissipate heat. Instead of just making the diameter larger why not do a bit of both?

I guess then I will stick to the Wilwoods. I can get those pretty easily from a place in Niagara Falls NY.

My idea for mounting the discs is not the best, but will work. As I stated a few times before I was trying to do this conversion at the lowest cost possible. Less fabrication means less cost.

BTW...about the wheel adapter... I read on the japanese website that the 1" adapter was temporary. It was only for the +24mm BBS RS's that he had until he got those -5mm works' that you see there on the home page.
I wonder if the calipers they used had a much narrower width than the ones from the Z32? It is almost impossible to relocate the mounting position of the caliper in order to get it away from the hub face. I said there would be limitations.

Wait a minute the caliper from the Z32 look the same as the ones in the images on the site. You will notice that the outside face lines up to the edge of the studs also. Any wheel mounted without an adapter will need a thick center pad for them also.

He's using tokico HTS struts for an AE86 with a 25mm strut tube spacer, and some 9kg 230mm springs with an inner diameter of 75mm.
Not a bad idea using the 25mm spacer. The only problem I see is strut travel. The travel might be too great, hit a big bump and bottom out against the flares and fender. Could cause a lot of damage.
 

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I've been through most of this before.

The Wilwood's are the choice.

Inexpensive, narrow, high number of pads available and rebuildable.

There are not many OEM 4 piston calipers that have the piston
diameter that the Wilwood does.

One will also note that most of the OEM 4 piston setups have
much larger rotors, especially in width. Even for a 10.75" diameter
rotor, you will need a minimum of 1" width rotor. Otherwise,
the rotor will overheat and one will loose the intended braking peformance.

AP rotors are just plain expensive. Coleman is still the best choice
in terms of quality and price.
 

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heres an idea i have. since your using 11in rotors, 84 300zx rotors are like 10.9in and at least .81in thick. they bolt up behind the hub as our rotors do. why not make a spacer to mount those rotors back toward the strut a little (like a wheel spacer, maybe .25-,5in)and then a spacer to push the caliper back so that less of the caliper will be sticking out past the hub face. that would help clear the wheels better. i was gonna do this but i was going to get custom hats made and buy 11inx1in rotors from coleman. i put it on hold as i have too many things going on at once and no funds for the project.
william
 

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Discussion Starter #33
We all know that the enegy that is built up by the car moving forward is converted to heat by using friction in order for the brakes to work. If the heat is kept down on the disc the car will stop better. What about those dust sheilds mounted behind the discs?

I really don't know anything about the air flow around the wheel and disc, but wouldn't it be better to run the car without the sheilds? Let more free air flow to the rear of the disc as well as the front. This would help in better braking performance with a slightly smaller disc. Will more air flow to the disc?

The only downfall I can see to removing the the sheilds is brake dust on all the suspension components and the inner wheel well. Also if oil or coolant blows out of the engine it may end up on the disc. Any other problems with doing this?

If I remember correctly years ago Nissan on thier racing 300ZX had a liquid cooled braking system.

It's so much more expensive getting all these parts here in Canada. If they are readily available over most parts counters the price would not be too bad, but they are not. One Wilwood dealer here told me to buy them from the States myself because it would cost me far less.

I love the BBK, so much so I found a set and bought it. I will not sell it and use the Z32 brake swap. For many though it is just too expensive, a few of us sat around one day and did the math...

1. Buy the BBK.
2. Buy the calipers.
3. Buy the discs.
4. Buy the pads.
5. Buy the special brake lines.
6. Buy new rims.
7. Buy new rubber for the rims.

We figured $4000 in total up here in Canada. The BBK alone was $1000 after shipping, customs etc.

So the Z32 swap is for them. I don't mind doing the work on it because it's cheap and fun to play with this stuff. I did a wheel conversion, now brakes. If the brakes work out I may try a suspension mod.

Nothing in life is for free. For building a 350+hp car the BBKs are only way to go. Unless Jdk decides to come up with something better. I may be interested.
 

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Discussion Starter #34
heres an idea i have. since your using 11in rotors, 84 300zx rotors are like 10.9in and at least .81in thick.
The disc is smaller so different pads may be needed than the stock 300ZX pads. Also the mount hole circle is 4X114.3 and the center hole is too big to be made hub centric if you care about that.

Two VW discs come in 280X22 and 288X25, with both overall widths with the hat at 28mm. The 288mm diameter disc may be a little too big in diameter. In order to install them the center hole has to be machined bigger, 4X100 holes to mount the disc to the hub rear have to be drilled (these are 5X100) and the hub rear face needs to be machined down a few mm. Once the discs wear you'll have to make up new discs.

That's why I'm sticking to the 11" diameter disc and custom hat. Unless someone else comes up with another stock disc we can use. That would be cool.
 

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rsdeo said:
I really don't know anything about the air flow around the wheel and disc, but wouldn't it be better to run the car without the sheilds? Let more free air flow to the rear of the disc as well as the front. This would help in better braking performance with a slightly smaller disc. Will more air flow to the disc?
The cool air needs to arrive near the center of the rotor.

Cooling air travels "out" of the rotor "fins". Hence the configuration
of directional rotors.

Rock shields do provide a purpose, other than rocks.

Road dirt/grease, bugs, and importantly, splashing water.

The later can be quite annoying as you loose braking effectiveness.
 

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rsdeo said:
It's so much more expensive getting all these parts here in Canada. If they are readily available over most parts counters the price would not be too bad, but they are not. One Wilwood dealer here told me to buy them from the States myself because it would cost me far less.
Correct. The Canadian Customs is a real obstacle.

That's why there is such a plethora of US mail boxes
just over the border from Canada.
 

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rsdeo said:
The 288mm diameter disc may be a little too big in diameter. In order to install them the center hole has to be machined bigger, 4X100 holes to mount the disc to the hub rear have to be drilled (these are 5X100) and the hub rear face needs to be machined down a few mm. Once the discs wear you'll have to make up new discs.
what modle and year did those disc's come on?
william
 

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I wouldn't put too much effort into finding a bigger brake solution that works with the stock rims. Anyone who is serious about improving the performance of their mk2 either has already or will be replacing the stock wheels. 14 inch wheels and 60 series tires on a 3000 pound car is ridulous by todays standards. Good work guys, I look forward to seeing how this turns out.
 
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