Toyota Celica Supra Forum banner

41 - 60 of 514 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
85 Posts
RS and Frank,
I have access to the Raybestos master reference guide at work and ordered one for myself today. The rotor dimensions are listed by mounting type, overall diameter, thickness and overall height. Overall height is the distance from the inner friction face to the top of the "hat." As if you laid the rotor down on a bench and measured the height to the wheel mounting surface.

If either of you can supply me with the height dimension we need to eliminate the 10mm caliper spacers I will see what I can find. I found some interesting ones today but I don't know what the needed dimensions are.

Also should I use the thickness dimension from the 86-92 Z car for the optimum thickness? Or just go with 1"?

BTW, as long as we are redrilling the rotor I will find us a stud that will work too. Especially if it needs an extra long knurled shoulder portion to grab a spacer. Stud dimensions are listed too :).

LMK,
Jamie
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
15,025 Posts
actually, you want the caliperto have the spacer, possible thicker. that will push the caliper further from the wheel so you dont have to worry about interference. i would look for a rotor that can be drilled to mount to the rear of the hub like stock so the wheels will still be the right offset and wont be sticking ou the extra 8mm up front.
william
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
85 Posts
williamb82 said:
actually, you want the caliperto have the spacer, possible thicker. that will push the caliper further from the wheel so you dont have to worry about interference. i would look for a rotor that can be drilled to mount to the rear of the hub like stock so the wheels will still be the right offset and wont be sticking ou the extra 8mm up front.
william
I was under the impression the spacers moved the caliper outwards, towards the wheel!? To compensate for a hat that isn't deep enough. Do they space it back away from the wheel??

I will also look for one that will bolt to the back of the hub. But from the sounds of it that may be too far back.
It wouldn't be the first time I was confused!
LMK,
Jamie
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
360 Posts
ghostrider said:
I was under the impression the spacers moved the caliper outwards, towards the wheel!?
The spacers do move the caliper outwards from the center of the car. The caliper actually bolts up to the outward edge of the caliper mount. So when you add a spacer it moves the caliper outwards.
 

·
Supra since '86
Joined
·
5,472 Posts
Discussion Starter #46
Guys great response.

There are differences between what the Japanese guys did and what I want to do. I started this project not knowing anyone had tried anything like this before. Thanks Frank for the info, anything helps.


The spacers do move the caliper outwards from the center of the car. The caliper actually bolts up to the outward edge of the caliper mount. So when you add a spacer it moves the caliper outwards.
That is what they did and what I do not want to do. I want the caliper as close to the strut as possible. That way there is less interferance with the wheel. Also the caliper bolts straight up to the strut so why ruin a good thing?

i would look for a rotor that can be drilled to mount to the rear of the hub like stock so the wheels will still be the right offset and wont be sticking ou the extra 8mm up front.
That is another thing I'm looking for, mounting the disc to the rear of the hub is the best solution. I thought about using a larger hat and have disc mount on the front of the hub, but I don't like the extra material up front. I do not want to machine material from the hub either.

Also should I use the thickness dimension from the 86-92 Z car for the optimum thickness? Or just go with 1"?
The calipers come from 89-96 300zx cars (also Skyline etc.). The disc width for those cars was 30mm. The reason I have the carboard disc on the hub in the image on my site was to check a hunch. I was correct the perfect disc diameter was 280mm, just like the 300ZX. I did check this without pads, but I'm confident that that is the diameter we need.

The four shims (spacers) in the image on my site were made 4mm thick each to compensate for a thinner disc width, two used per caliper. I do not want the pistons to pop out if the pads wear too low.

For now it seems the perfect disc would be 30X280 just like the 300ZX. But I will go with any where from 22mm disc to 30mm. The stock MK2 discs are only 20mm thick and diameter is only about 256mm. So anything is an improvement over stock.

As I stated before the bolt pattern for mounting the rotors to the rear of the hub is 4X100.

I have posted more images so take a look. The 4mm shims are mounted between the pads and pistons. The red rag was used to hold the pads apart. Notice the the rear location of the hub with respect to the pads and disc spacing.


I will try to figure out the exact dimensions for the disc this weekend. I still like the idea of the custom hat. Once it's made no more machining ever.

http://ca.geocities.com/mk2supra1985/brakes
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
85 Posts
Well guys it looks like we have more options depending on whether we mount the rotor to the front of the hub face or the back (Supra's OE location).

The OE location appears to need little or no offset, judging by the photos on your site RS. Thanks. I like the idea of no more machining to replace the rotors too,...

But,....

For those that want the additional spacer effect of the rotor on the front of the hub, that may be doable also. I kind of like the additional wheel options (ones that have more offset) that scenario makes available. In addition, it may be possible to find a rotor that doesn't require the outside diameter of the hub to be reduced (machined), or at least not as much. I don't have a spare hub, so if you have the stock hub diameter Frank, I will see if I can find a rotor that has a larger ID in the hat portion.

I will be looking for both once I have the dimension(s) from each of you. (overall height)

It would be nice if we could get a common, relatively inexpensive OE rotor that will do the job, and is available from most parts outlets. There is nothing wrong with the JDK kit, Just that it is definitely a higher end option $$-wise.

Jamie
 

·
Supra since '86
Joined
·
5,472 Posts
Discussion Starter #48
ghostrider

One reason I didn't say anything about this project earlier was finding the right combination of parts to use.

I will be looking for both once I have the dimension(s) from each of you. (overall height)

I still prefer to make a custom hat and use a AP Racing, Coleman or Wilwood discs. Then use a one inch thick adapter with any bolt pattern for wheel mounting.

If you want to mount a larger hat size disc on the front face of the hub here are some discs that may work.

Depending on the thickness of the face these three might fit.

Year Make Model Dia Hat Width

'80-'86 Porsche 928 282 60 32
'96 on VW Transport 280 54 24
'91 on Volvo 740/760 280 56 26



These will need shims, washers 3mm to 5mm thick, between the caliper and strut caliper mount. This will cause the caliper to move outwards and be closer to the wheel.

Year Make Model Dia Hat Width

'87-'94 Acura Legend 282 51 21 *
'93 on Infinity G50 280 53.5 28

* Bolt pattern is 4X114.3 and center hole is 64mm, MK2 hub center is 60.1. No machining needed to mount to the MK2 hub.

I think with this route the Acura Legend disc is the way to go. Before mounting remove the MK2 studs from the hub and replace with longer Landcruiser studs. Mount the disc and then use a one inch adapter to clear the caliper.

All this is still just guess work until they are actually tried on the hub/strut.
 

·
Supra since '86
Joined
·
5,472 Posts
Discussion Starter #49
ghostrider

if you have the stock hub diameter
It is around 165mm in diameter. That is the largest part, the actual outer face of the hub. So I guess around 170mm in diameter would be good.
 

·
Supra since '86
Joined
·
5,472 Posts
Discussion Starter #51
I agree the machined hat/Wilwood, Coleman, AP rotor would be good, but Wilwood at least doesn't apper to make a 11"X1" rotor. All the 11" rotors they list are all .81" or 20.5mm. according to what they have on their site anyway:

Do either of the others?
Yes they do, but I will stick with the Wilwoods. I already made the shims for the pad spacing.

Did you look at the Acura Legend discs. This would be the cheapest way to go for most people. I will have to scrounge one up just to try it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
129 Posts
Kudos to RSDEO and Frank for doing all this work to help with Less-expensive mods for our cars.

RSDEO, if you need a car to test all this on, come over anytime.

nick
 

·
Supra since '86
Joined
·
5,472 Posts
Discussion Starter #53
Nick

You changed your user name!

Check out the brakes link on my site (link is below). I added some pics to give everyone an idea of what we are dealing with here.

If I order the Wilwoods or Colemans I'll design the hat and get a quote on getting them fabricated. I know what material to use and the minimum material mounting specs. I will pickup the material myself to save on the cost of that as well.

For those wanting to save even more money I may try and pick up a Legend disc from a wrecker just to try it. If I did my research correctly these might be a perfect fit and best yet no machining costs. I just love the fact that it has the correct bolt pattern to go over the hub and mount on to the wheel studs. Also the center hole is not too big, 3.9mm difference. That's less than 2mm gap between the disc center and hub center.

I still don't know why the Japanese guys would want to machine the hub and disc? Then make a spacer for the caliper? They have all those cars as domestics over there and sourcing parts should be easy and cheap for them.

Like Frank says
I guess theres more than one way to skin a cat huh?
.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
360 Posts
rsdeo said:
I still don't know why the Japanese guys would want to machine the hub and disc? Then make a spacer for the caliper? They have all those cars as domestics over there and sourcing parts should be easy and cheap for them.
They might have just overlooked some options. Also there could be an unseen reason why they went the route they did.

I'll email the webmaster of hirostyle.com and ask for some info. And when I have some free time Ill search around to see if I can find any other options for brakes.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
15,025 Posts
ok, ,heres what im going to do. i can get rotor adaptors made. i will buy the coleman 11x1in rotors and make a spacer to go between the caliper and mounting point to push it as close to the strut as i can. then i will make the rotor adaptor the appropriate thickness to mount the rotor centered with the caliper. the spacers and adaptors will be plasma cut. once i have all the dimensions sorted out ill see what the guy will charge me to make them for us if anyone is interested. i already have some 0 offset 15's and want to be able to use them.
william
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,948 Posts
If you go the rotor adapter route, check pricing.

The manufacturing discount, especially with aluminum, gets
much better by each qty 10.

I am getting another quote from another fabricator, as they
did the V2 shifter. Nice work and timely production.
 

·
Supra since '86
Joined
·
5,472 Posts
Discussion Starter #57
ok, ,heres what im going to do. i can get rotor adaptors made. i will buy the coleman 11x1in rotors and make a spacer to go between the caliper and mounting point to push it as close to
the strut as i can. then i will make the rotor adaptor the appropriate thickness to mount the rotor centered with the caliper. the spacers and adaptors will be plasma cut. once i have all the dimensions sorted out ill see what the guy will charge me to make them for us if anyone is interested. i already have some 0 offset 15's and want to be able to use them.
William unless I'm missing something your idea to move the caliper inwards toward the strut will only really work one way. Take a look at the image of the caliper mounted to the strut on my site.

You will notice that the caliper is mounted on the outside face of the strut caliper mount. The caliper is threaded not the strut caliper mounts. The bolts run through the strut caliper mounts and into the caliper. If you want to mount the caliper on the rear of the mount you need to make an adapter, but there will be no room for it because the disc will be pushed closer to mount outside face. You could open up the caliper mount holes and thread the strut to solve this. Not a good idea. Cross thread and you have to change the strut not the caliper. A lot more work.

I tried to look at all the options on mounting the Z32 caliper and the default placement is the best.

Toyota makes 4 piston calipers for all their trucks, but you need an adapter or welding to mount them to the MK2 strut. Reason I chose the Z32 caliper, it bolts straight on.

I'll email the webmaster of hirostyle.com and ask for some info. And when I have some free time Ill search around to see if I can find any other options for brakes.
Cool Frank. I think the reason for all the extra work they did was just to use the stock R32 disc. We'll see.

If you go the rotor adapter route, check pricing.

The manufacturing discount, especially with aluminum, gets much better by each qty 10.

I am getting another quote from another fabricator, as they did the V2 shifter. Nice work and timely production.
Thanks Jim, but I don't know how many people are going to do this swap. I thought once I get everything resolved I would just post all the specs with a how-to on my site and anyone wanting to do it could do it themselves.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
15,025 Posts
well, most likely i will remove the steel insterts from the caliper. than i will prolly weld nuts to the mounting holes of the stock caliper mount. the bolt will then go through the caliper, the spacer, the stock mount, ,and thread into the nut. this is for my car. most people may not want to do it this way but im not worried about it. also, if it looks like the rotor may hit the nuts, i may just tap the stock mounting braket as you mentioned and then drill the holes in the caliper so they will allow the correct size bolt to pas through for a tight fit. i have extra strus so am not worried, plus, youd have to overtighten it alot to strip it.
william
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,634 Posts
Why do you need pad spacers if you are using a Z32 Caliper on a Z32 rotor? I dont get it!
 
41 - 60 of 514 Posts
Top