[the ghoul]

friend of mine is selling off his newly rebuilt 5m and im having a heck of a time selling off the turbo kit i put together for my old honda. so i ended up with a thought process that went along the lines of 2+3=5mgte.

I was wondering if i could put together an ok turbo system with these parts without having to put out much more? or would i have to re-buy most of it and it wouldn’t be worth while?

er... getting a head of my self here...
here are the turbo parts i currently have:
- .3 bar tail external waste gate
- manual boost controller
- HKS BOV
- garrett 38 trim t3 turbo (stock saab)
- garrett knock off 50 trim t3/t4
- glow shift wide band o2, boost, and oil pressure gauges
- perfect power smt6 piggy back tuner
- xenocron 255lph fuel pump
- large ebay FMIC
- ebay hose and coupler set
- all the oil feed lines and vacuum bits to make it work

im not looking to put up big numbers, i feel about 5psi ish would be plenty. I dont want to over power the stock w58

I know i would have to get an exhaust manifold, down pipe, injectors... but i was wondering if one of my turbos would be a good size *and what one*, if my piggy back would be enough *or will i have to go stand alone with a fancy ignition system*, would my fuel pump feed it alright, would i have to upgrade the ignition system other than spark plugs, do i need to do any thing internal to the engine, valve train ect...?

Basically im looking to set up a cheap and cheerful system with the parts i already have and i want to know if i can do that on a mild budget ($300-400 more invested) or would i end up wasting alot of money (over $600) that i could use to put towards my 1jz swap?

and before it gets tossed out there, did you guys go thu a re-shuffling at one point or another on this forum? I ran across a bunch of posts telling the OP to check the stickies and referencing peoples build threads that are no longer around?

 

[Donn29]

To turbo a 5M, you need an RRFPR(with a fuel pump that can make over 90psi) and a MSD BTM(along with a 8910 tach adaptor).

There is a lot of really good threads on the forum. Try looking for posts by BillyM. I've got a few threads myself about it too.

 

[BillyM]

Sell absolutely everything you have, and get the following:

Stock 7m manifold, turbo, elbow, and downpipe.
Stock 7m intercooler piping, crossover pipe, BOV and intercooler.
8:1 or Adjustable RRFPR and a Walbro or Bosch "984" fuel pump.
MSD BTM for timing correction, boost gauge, and wideband 02 sensor/gauge setup.
Rabid Chimp's Oil and Coolant lines for the ct26.
Muffler shop, have a 2.5" exhaust bent up for you.

If you play your cards right and keep your eyes open for used stuff, you should be able to pull off the swap for $600-800.

Enjoy 5psi.

--billyM

 

[Donn29]

Make sure you have an exhaust, otherwise you'll make too much boost and the Fuel pump won't keep up, and viola, melted pistons.

 

[the ghoul]

Sell absolutely everything you have, and get the following:

Stock 7m manifold, turbo, elbow, and downpipe.
Stock 7m intercooler piping, crossover pipe, BOV and intercooler.
8:1 or Adjustable RRFPR and a Walbro or Bosch "984" fuel pump.
MSD BTM for timing correction, boost gauge, and wideband 02 sensor/gauge setup.
Rabid Chimp's Oil and Coolant lines for the ct26.
Muffler shop, have a 2.5" exhaust bent up for you.

If you play your cards right and keep your eyes open for used stuff, you should be able to pull off the swap for $600-800.

Enjoy 5psi.

--billyM

did not know about the MSD BTM thank you...

I know that seems to be the favorite formula to use, But that seems like alot of horse trading when i could 'in theory' use the majority of the stuff i already have (see now that my pump is way too small).

are you sure my 50 trim garret that ill suted to the 5mge?

and
I didnt see any thing mentioned about a tuner. with the combanation of the BTM and RRFPR enough to do the trick?

*im honestly not trying to be a pain here, but i have alot put into this setup and i know im going to lose on selling it, which would be a waste if i dont have to*

 

[84ptype]

as mentioned...

Unless you are gonna go standalone for much more power, there is no reason not to use the stock 7m manifold and turbo
Dont worry about over powering the stock w58 cause you wont do that as long as you are on stock engine management (that will limit ur power before the tranny)

BillyM as usual pretty much nailed it.
You can try to get it together and working with existing stuff you have or whatnot...but it will be more work and probably more expensive then a 5mgte already is.

Go through and read peoples build threads and find the issues they ran into and such.
In the end, its gonna come down to the same thing everyone who asks about it is told...read read read. If your not exactly sure, read.

the btm and rrfpr will not be enough to tune it alone. and SAFC will make your life soo much easier.

As for trying to use the stuff you have, if your set on it, go for it, but its gonna be harder. The stock turbo, and manifold can be had for next to nothing...

 

[Donn29]

are you sure my 50 trim garret that ill suted to the 5mge?

The problem is that it doesn't fit the 5/7M Head without another manifold(and you can't buy a downpipe that fits the MA60 and that turbo).

I'm pretty sure the Begi RRFPR won't require any SAFC or similar. I didn't have any lean spots till I maxed out my fuel pump at over 8psi. Plus I didn't have a BTM either.
Start off with just the BTM and RRFPR before you make other mods. Use a wideband to make sure its not leaning out.

 

[the ghoul]

Go through and read peoples build threads and find the issues they ran into and such.
In the end, its gonna come down to the same thing everyone who asks about it is told...read read read. If your not exactly sure, read.

As for trying to use the stuff you have, if your set on it, go for it, but its gonna be harder. The stock turbo, and manifold can be had for next to nothing...

yeah i tried going thru it all and ended up with loose ends and disconnects.. They stated in about four diffrent places a link that promiced to be the compleet assembily guide to doing this but ended up a missing webpage. I ended up on some famious geocity sites (btw LMFAO when one of them said "i used a website called youtube to host this video" :laugh: ). and was able to see most of the setup that you guys have pointed out *again the msd unit was a new one, thought my perfect power smt6 would do that*

any way,
its not so much the turbo and manifolds are no issue (im an AWS certified welder, with access to a watter cutter, and there are plenty of T3 7mgte manifolds up for grabbs). What i am reluctant to give up is the external waste gate, blow off valve, my FMIC, all my tubing ect... it just dosent make sence to me to sell all that off, just to re-buy replacements? That and i really hate selling things!!

dont get me wrong, i understand and see the beauty in what you are sying. Yes if my goal is only 5psi than there is a time proven combo that can be had dirt cheap if i wanted it..

i guess what i need to do at this point is find out stock turbo specs vs the specs on my turbo and see where they stack side by side...

thank you all for the good info

 

[Lucifer]

That turbo will run out of air at aprox. 4200- 4500 rpms ... hope you love short shifting, and losing the whole power band.

There are NO T3 flanged manifolds for a 5/6/7m all are ct26 ot T4 based, so,you'll have to use those welding/fab skills you have to mount the turbo, then, build a custom DP.


VERY top of page is an FAQ which most people freaking don't see or ignore, NOT the FAQ in the main forum. There areseveral "recipe's" in there for the ct26 build. Also, I don't believe you are searching correctly, as many of the builds here have been fifnished and documented ... 84ptype for example

 

[84ptype]

The problem is that it doesn't fit the 5/7M Head without another manifold(and you can't buy a downpipe that fits the MA60 and that turbo).

I'm pretty sure the Begi RRFPR won't require any SAFC or similar. I didn't have any lean spots till I maxed out my fuel pump at over 8psi. Plus I didn't have a BTM either.
Start off with just the BTM and RRFPR before you make other mods. Use a wideband to make sure its not leaning out.

im not just talking about for lean spots...Im talking about for a full complete tune and pull some fuel out where needed and trying to perfect the AFR curve as much as possible.

 

[BillyM]

Between the AFM and a BEGI 2025, you should very well be able to tune a very nice AFR curve. Datalogging would ofcourse be required, but the RRFPR setup has proven to be most reasonable in previous swaps.

--billyM

 

[the ghoul]

That turbo will run out of air at aprox. 4200- 4500 rpms ... hope you love short shifting, and losing the whole power band.

thank you, that was part of the puzzle i was looking for...
so just to clarify...
if the turbo "runs out of air" will i then start causing a drag on the intake? will i loose boost pressure? or will it just flat line at a certen pressure (like i said 5psi would be just fine for me)

so,you'll have to use those welding/fab skills you have to mout the turbo, then, build a custon DP.

cool, not a problem there... easy stuff..

VERY top of page is an FAQ which most people freaking don't see or ignore, NOT the FAQ in the main forum. There areseveral "recipe's" in there for the ct26 build.

DOH!!!
i saved the forum as my favorites so ive been bypassing it all this time... the only faq ive been looking at this whole time has been the stickies :laugh:
thank you, i will look that over!

Also, I don't believe you are searching correctly, as many of the builds here have been fifnished and documented ... 84ptype for example

Yeah, i admitted that as well,first post i think it was, and i guess this stuff is easy to find if you know whos screen name to search for?
'5mgte' '5mge turbo' 'turbocharging a 5mge'... doset get you a whole heck of alot on this forum...


sorry, not trying to be difficult or annoying here, its just a new forum, new car, new places of looking for info i still need to get used to...also still a fairly new subject matter (only been dabbiling in turbo systems a fiew months)

 

[Donn29]

The only thing you need to worry about is getting enough fuel into the motor, and retarding the ignition timing with boost. Making a turbo bolt up, get oil and coolant, and making intake/exhaust and IC piping is easy(just time and money). Not many people have heard of the smt your talking about, so you'll have to figure that out on your own(or contact the manufacture).


Edit: I guess sizing of the turbo could be important, but I kept it simple and used stock turbos, manifolds and a DP that was crafted for a 5/7M-GTE in a MA60.

 

[Lucifer]

thank you, that was part of the puzzle i was looking for...
so just to clarify...
if the turbo "runs out of air" will i then start causing a drag on the intake? will i loose boost pressure? or will it just flat line at a certen pressure (like i said 5psi would be just fine for me)

That "small" turbo, will flat line, and quit pulling .. perod. Engine will be gasping for air, and bog ... more than likely, never even getting to 5k rpm's. Considering these engines generaly pull to 6500-6700 rpm, you get the idea.

 

[Donn29]

At what kind of power level are you referring to Lucifer?

 

[Lucifer]

At what kind of power level are you referring to Lucifer?

Discussions, estimate via math, aprox. 170-190 rwhp at 3700-4200 rpm iirc. Exact specs of the turbo would be needed for closer calculations.

Though, take into account, the math, which should never be wrong, has proven incorrect on many NA and Turbo builds.

The real issue is drivablility. Shifting at low rpm's gets to be a PITA and, your leaving so much untapped potential on the table, considering shift points, are now at the low end of usable tq band.

And FYI --- before you think you know who this is, there are at least 4 people sharing this account. Just to intentionaly mess with you

 

[the ghoul]

Discussions, estimate via math, aprox. 170-190 rwhp at 3700-4200 rpm iirc. Exact specs of the turbo would be needed for closer calculations.

Though, take into account, the math, which should never be wrong, has proven incorrect on many NA and Turbo builds.

The real issue is drivablility. Shifting at low rpm's gets to be a PITA and, your leaving so much untapped potential on the table, considering shift points, are now at the low end of usable tq band.

And FYI --- before you think you know who this is, there are at least 4 people sharing this account. Just to intentionaly mess with you

its cool
there about 2-3 sharing my head!!

thank you for the info... bigger turbo in order...
i left it to fait.
i put my turbo poo up on ebay...
it sells i do the 7mgte bolt on bits good-ness
it dosent i piece out the ill-suting stuff and start from there...

 

[Donn29]

How much power do you plan on making?

 

[BillyM]

The ct26 is quite similarly sized to the t3 "super-60"

...that Saab turbo would be great if you had three of them...

--billyM

 

[935motorsports]

Will trade you the BEGI RRFPR for the Tial wastegate.