It can be done, I have done it many times. However you have to be real good at it and it can only be done at certain RPM's. But if you dont to ir right you get a big clak clack clak :shock: .Glaucus said:
Clutchless Shifting
Hey!
I met this guy who told me he likes to shift gears without using the clutch pedal. He told me that once you learn how to shift this way, it's better and smoother then using the clutch. Is this true?
It's easy to pull the shifter out of gear, but I'm too scared to try and get it into gear without the clutch - if you don't get it right you start to grind the gears. Anyway, I'm not likely to start shifting this way, just curious to see what others think of this.
- Mike
I met this guy who told me he likes to shift gears without using the clutch pedal. He told me that once you learn how to shift this way, it's better and smoother then using the clutch. Is this true?
It's easy to pull the shifter out of gear, but I'm too scared to try and get it into gear without the clutch - if you don't get it right you start to grind the gears. Anyway, I'm not likely to start shifting this way, just curious to see what others think of this.
- Mike
1 - 20 of 21 Posts
It's all about synchros =]
All you have to do is learn exactly what speed and rpm each gear likes, and slowly, without forcing it (you'll grind if you do), slip it into each gear. I guess it's all about your panache, it won't work if you aren't pretty in tune with your car. It's not smoother, as you have to pull it out of gear, then wait in neutral until it easily pulls into gear (ie., when you've reached the exact rpm/speed). I find i usually rev each gear a little bit higher than with a clutch, so the time it takes to shift into the higher gear is negated by the time i'm coasting. Upshifting is fine, you'll probably pull it off the first time you try it. Downshifting however, is even more fun, and even more difficult. You need to relearn the shift points, and blip the throttle an exact amount. You *can* just hold the throttle down slowly until it pops in, but i find that unless you blip it, you're going to grind that gear. I dunno..hth
All you have to do is learn exactly what speed and rpm each gear likes, and slowly, without forcing it (you'll grind if you do), slip it into each gear. I guess it's all about your panache, it won't work if you aren't pretty in tune with your car. It's not smoother, as you have to pull it out of gear, then wait in neutral until it easily pulls into gear (ie., when you've reached the exact rpm/speed). I find i usually rev each gear a little bit higher than with a clutch, so the time it takes to shift into the higher gear is negated by the time i'm coasting. Upshifting is fine, you'll probably pull it off the first time you try it. Downshifting however, is even more fun, and even more difficult. You need to relearn the shift points, and blip the throttle an exact amount. You *can* just hold the throttle down slowly until it pops in, but i find that unless you blip it, you're going to grind that gear. I dunno..hth
It is hell on the synchros to do this. You should get good quick, because you are going to need it when the synchros are toast.
lol, its definilty not smoother, one time my slave cylinder crapped out and i had to shift like that for 55 miles until i got home...it stunk really bad. There isn't any advantage, they make a clutch for a reason...lol
You need brand new synchros, otherwise it is worthless, it actually uses up more time than you would if you were to just upshift by disengaging the clutch.
Thanks guys, I've been wondering how that worked for a long time
yeah, i can only do this at the 3000RPM mark, its pretty cool. but the guys who drive for like car and driver , when the run the 1320, they power through the gears without the clutch, proves to be a lot faster and more effective. Too bad im not hardcore like that.
Yea I can do this in my 4runner, kinda a neat trick and when you are driving in traffic and too lazy to clutch from 1st to 2nd but other than that it has no real benifit
I can't believe people here actually do this. The only way i'd ever do this is on a motorcycle.
"The guys for car and driver do it" That's all well and good but remember one thing ... THEY ARE NOT DRIVING THIER OWN CARS!!!
Don't do it.
You are guaranteed to wear out your syncro's prematurly because even if you don't grind gears the syncro's wear surfaces are still taking abuse to line up the gear engagement. Theroeticly if you time every shift perfectly, everytime, always ... you can do it. If people could learn to do this they wouldn't have invented syncro's in the first place.
Most people who think they can do this properly will soon find out as the syncro's wear that it gets harder to do it without grinding. They are not getting worse at shifting ... they just wern't as good as they thought they were and wore out the syncro's.
But hey, some people like rebuilding trannys so knock yourself out. (Or maybe you should just knock your friend out for sugesting you drive like him.)
:twak:
Tell me, does he drive a Honda??? :gotrice:
Don't do it.
You are guaranteed to wear out your syncro's prematurly because even if you don't grind gears the syncro's wear surfaces are still taking abuse to line up the gear engagement. Theroeticly if you time every shift perfectly, everytime, always ... you can do it. If people could learn to do this they wouldn't have invented syncro's in the first place.
Most people who think they can do this properly will soon find out as the syncro's wear that it gets harder to do it without grinding. They are not getting worse at shifting ... they just wern't as good as they thought they were and wore out the syncro's.
But hey, some people like rebuilding trannys so knock yourself out. (Or maybe you should just knock your friend out for sugesting you drive like him.)
:twak:
Tell me, does he drive a Honda??? :gotrice:
82MKIILtype:
I couldn't have said it better myself.
I couldn't have said it better myself.
WHY, O WHY?NoahFex said:I can't believe people here actually do this. The only way i'd ever do this is on a motorcycle.
motorcycle trannies are generally more delicate than street car transmissions, and if you happen to bugger it up, you can end up getting thrown
also, why is it so hard to belive?
truckers do it all day every day, although some of them dont care about their transmissions, lol
It's also a good way to test if the synchros are shot on a tranny.
Christian
Christian
dogstar said:truckers do it all day every day, although some of them dont care about their transmissions, lol
LOL.. I used to drive a 13 speed Peterbuilt with a double overdrive, and other than starting out, I never ever touched the clutch.
Now, that being said... In a truck, thats fine. The synchro's in them are designed not take ALOT more abuse (the average desiel tranny is designed with loads in excess of 100,000 pounds in mind, tho most rarely ever see more than 80,000). So, as you can imagine, they are made from uber-hardened steel. Car sychrop's are, comparatively, delicate. They really aren;t designed to be flat shifted like that... tho in most cases they will hold up to it for a while without too much of a complaint.
Now, if your looking at it from a performance standpoint, its a MUCH slower process than shifting with a clutch. You have to run the motor up, pull it out of gear, and then let the rpm's drop until your road speed matches the engines speed for the gear your trying to get into.
You have to remember that the ratios in a transport are extremely close together compared to a pasenger car (18 gears to get the same reduction as 5 gears...) and the gear boxes are built with a lot of ... ummm ... slop to make shifting them easier. It's kind of manditory for trucks because the loads are so heavy that you can't slip the clutch to smooth out every shift. You just match 'em and go ... or mash 'em and look stupid. I drove a 5 ton lumber truck truck in highschool and loved it! No cluch for that creature. Like a tank on wheels. (remember ... I was like 17 at the time) FUN!
Actually, a nice new Truck tranny isn't all that much "sloppier" than a pickup truck tranny. It just after years of pulling heavy loads they tend get that way. The Peterbuilt I drove, for the first 5000 miles it was a pain in the ass to get the gears! And really, even until it hit 50,000 it was kinda rough to get if ya weren't used to it, even for my father who had been a truck driver for 35 years...82MKIILtype said:.....and the gear boxes are built with a lot of ... ummm ... slop to make shifting them easier....
I'm sure that they are building them tighter since i was a gear jammer. Besides the company I was working for didn't give me (a 17 year old high school student) the best pick in the parking lot. I can't even remember what make it was... I know it had a two range five speed in it (10 total). Still, one hell of a drive for a young kid. Helps to be a farm boy I guess.
I ride motocross bikes and usually shift without clutch unless I powershift (hold wide open and slam thru gears using clutch, not backing off throttle, doing a start from starting gate to 1st turn in a race). The transmission in a bike does not have syncros whereas a car does. Likewise a semitruck trans is different than a car, too but in a different way which I'm not sure how to explain.dogstar said:WHY, O WHY?NoahFex said:I can't believe people here actually do this. The only way i'd ever do this is on a motorcycle.
motorcycle trannies are generally more delicate than street car transmissions, and if you happen to bugger it up, you can end up getting thrown
also, why is it so hard to belive?
truckers do it all day every day, although some of them dont care about their transmissions, lol
1 - 20 of 21 Posts
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