Toyota Celica Supra Forum banner

Status
Not open for further replies.
1 - 20 of 52 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
256 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
The MkII already handles like a cat, but I want to turn this thing into a real street machine. I have the engine build in progress (stout 5mgte), and plan to put 8.5" wheels up front, and 10" in the rear (if that is feasable.) In addition to this I want to put better sway bars, shocks, struts, and springs on the car. I have considered having a custom coil-over suspention made, but would rather put together a decent combo due to the fact that a custom set up will be expensive. You all have helped me alot in planning this car thus far, and appreciate your help.


Thanks,
Christopher
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9,445 Posts
Do you want something hella firm???

Shocks/Struts: KYB Gas-A-Just. Tokco's would be a close 2nd.

Springs: Either Eibach's or Suspension Techniques.

(short of coilovers, the above combo is your best bet).

Addco front & rear swaybars.

PST polygraphite bushings for the front suspension, PST bushings for the rear control arms, Energy Suspension for the rest of the rear suspension (PST does not have another other bushings for the rear, other than the control arm bushings).

LJM front strut tower bar (have to wait for the next Group Purchase, unless someone has one for sale).

You'll probably have to fabricate something for the rear. Unless you want to buy the Cusco bar, but there is better stuff out there that other members have made themselves.

HTH.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,558 Posts
one semi related question.

IIRC lowering springs in the rear give our cars too much camber... but will it kill my handling and ride if i use stock height springs in the rear and lowered springs up front?

im not looking for a real rake, but i dont want to drop the rear too far and create massive camber, so im just trying to think whether or not itd be feasable to mix heights??
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,433 Posts
lol, the more negative camber the more handling ability....lol yeah i read somewhere on here they make a rear camber adjustment kit.......you might want to do a search for it....
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
13,118 Posts
CJS, this is the second time I think I have corrected you now, there are no gas-a-just struts, only shocks, both my supras have them for the rears, and I would gladly sell my left testicles for them to have made a strut, but they dont.

Chris,

If you want handling, I would personally get a $200 front coilover kit and MR2 struts, hack off the bottom spring perch from the stock strut housing, weld the sleve on, and shorten the strut housing up an inch or so to make MR2 struts fit with less of a spacer needed underneath. For $200, you will get bottom and top perches, nut, sleeve, and any springrate Eibach spring you want. That will get your front taken care of springrate and height wise...

For the rears, I suggest getting a few different kinds, ask around some ausies for rear spring options, seems there are a few manufacturers over there. What you dont use, you can probably sell to someone on the forums... Supression, I would see what will fit, someone mentioned Beemer 36series rears do the trick, but I dont know firsthand.

As for swaybars, custom will be the only thing if you are looking for EXTREME handling. Addcos may do the trick, but I have my doubts. For real tuning, you will want something adjustable....

As for rim and tire widths, ask anyone who knows anything about making a car handle, and they will tell you that there is really no upside to having 10" wide rears and 8" fronts on a well balanced car. I run the same tire size front and rear on stock rims, running my rear end just slightly stiffer than my front supression wise, on stock springs, and it makes the car run true from about 90% throttle down to about 20% throttle, either extreme, and it oversteers slightly, but always controlable. 10" wide rear tires would make my car push like a Pontiac Bonneville (my pre-supra).

Honestly, I highly suggest you spend $20 on a little book called "How to Make Your Car Handle." by Fred Puhn. That is the suspension tuner's bible. I personally own one, an LIVE by it. There is a deal on amazon.com, $26 after shipping gets it and "The Secrets of Solo" same author, giving in depth pointers on solo and solo2 auto racing.


Almost everythign you will want to know as far as suspension setups go is in that book. For the price of what you will pay for these mods, buy that book, as I feel I am just relaying his information down on a forum...

--BillyM
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9,445 Posts
Aggg...

Sorry Billy... Keep forgetting that Gas-A-Just struts are not available.. My bad... :oops: Next choice for front struts would be Tokico's then. Koni might have a few things available also, but my brain can't remember what's recommended at the moment

I agree here, it depends on what you want to spend $$$$. Anything is possible.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,100 Posts
look to my sig...

I agree with Chris.

Will
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
360 Posts
_HOT_M16 said:
Honestly, I highly suggest you spend $20 on a little book called "How to Make Your Car Handle." by Fred Puhn. That is the suspension tuner's bible. I personally own one, an LIVE by it. There is a deal on amazon.com, $26 after shipping gets it and "The Secrets of Solo" same author, giving in depth pointers on solo and solo2 auto racing.
YES! I've learned everything I know from books like that. "How to make your car handle" is my fav.

BTW: I was doing some research at some japanese XX owners pages not too long ago...when I came across a pic of a Gas_A_Just strut insert along side a TRD strut insert. I didnt bookmark that page, but I will see if I can find it again, and see what kind of info I can get from the webmaster.

So Its out there....No to figure out where to get it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
13,118 Posts
Most likely what you were seeing was from another car. KYB even says they only made a shock for our car. If you can prove otherwise, PLEASE do. Althogh I personally run hp's in front and gasajusts in rear and it gives me an almost perfect balance at our small regional autox, I would like something a little stiffer in front for faster courses, atlanta has some big ones...


--billyM
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,855 Posts
OK I've got Gas-A-Justs on the rear of my supra, and as far as I can tell the front are Toyota, I beleive that they have been replaiced but they appear to be factory, this is making my rear end much firmer than the front, I would like to acheive some balance, anyone have any suggestions as to what the front should be replaced with to get some consistancy?

Also how would this effect the handling of my car (front being softer than the back)??
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,297 Posts
NoahFex said:
Not downplaying the MKII, but honestly, stock, it is one of the worst handling cars I have ever driven....ever. Not saying with upgraded suspension it can't rule, but...hehe, sorry, but it sucks for handling.
If you're comparing a stock Probe to a stock MkII Supra, I'll take the Supra hands down any day.

I've driven 350Zs, 300ZX twin turbos, C5 Corvettes and recently a race tuned Shelby Cobra (replica) with a very sophisticated suspension. There is absolutely NOTHING wrong with the stock suspension on a MkII Supra.

Saying a stock MkII is a bad handling car can only mean one thing -- your Supra must have a really screwed up suspension or something.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7,111 Posts
NoahFex said:
Not downplaying the MKII, but honestly, stock, it is one of the worst handling cars I have ever driven....ever. Not saying with upgraded suspension it can't rule, but...hehe, sorry, but it sucks for handling.
**I see a big flame :burn: comming in your near future ** :bday: <---Wizard hat not a party hat
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
792 Posts
I agree! A stock Supra handles quite well, what with an almost perfect 50/50 (think its 48/52 f/r)balance. It corners with good balance and not to much plow on the throttle, and isn't too upsettable when hard on the brakes while diving into a corner.
Main things that would not allow this vehicle to handle nicely while stock would be misalignment, crappy tires, and/or worn suspension. If you were to put new stock parts on a Supra, you'd see a very competent vehicle!
Of course, throw some aftermarket suspension parts, sways and some good tires, and you'll see the car really come alive! I run my '85 out at Willow Springs and have had no problem keeping up with modified-class RX-7's, Honda crx's, as well as a few Porsches (911 carreras and 924s) and even some newer bimmers thru the corners, just can't keep up with those higher hp cars-for now... :twisted:
Chris
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
152 Posts
SupraRacer007 said:
NoahFex said:
Not downplaying the MKII, but honestly, stock, it is one of the worst handling cars I have ever driven....ever. Not saying with upgraded suspension it can't rule, but...hehe, sorry, but it sucks for handling.
If you're comparing a stock Probe to a stock MkII Supra, I'll take the Supra hands down any day.

I've driven 350Zs, 300ZX twin turbos, C5 Corvettes and recently a race tuned Shelby Cobra (replica) with a very sophisticated suspension. There is absolutely NOTHING wrong with the stock suspension on a MkII Supra.

Saying a stock MkII is a bad handling car can only mean one thing -- your Supra must have a really screwed up suspension or something.
I'm not comparing a Probe to a MKII, but since you brought it up, yes, a Probe GT wipes it's ass with a MKII when it comes to handling. Hell, even in performance (0-60 in 7.3sec, C&D says [email protected], but I ran a 15.1 stock and a 14.8 with slicks, stock chirps tires in 3rd gear) But that is also a car with suspension that was designed by Mazda and has the highest skidpad rating in it's class. So don't say stuff you don't know.

I also used to have a C5 Vette. Stock for stock, the vette eats the MKII in handling. I've test drove a 300zx and I drove a 350Z. All outhandle the MKII.

Let me point out that I am not trashtalking the MKII, only being realistic.

I understand you wanting to back up your car you own, but also you need to understand that I own a MKII and am selling my Probe GT to buy another MKII. So I have nothing against the car, but I was merely pointing out that the car handles like ass when stock. Any car that has bouncy suspension (and bounces around/rocks right and left when coming out of a turn) is not a good handling car in my eyes.

Go out to a used car dealership, test drive a 93-97 Ford Probe GT. Make sure it's a GT, as it has the sport suspension package. Take some corners nice and fast and come back to tell me they don't make the MKII cry. Hell, when flooring 1st gear, the tires try to break loose all the way up to the 7,000rpm redline (assuming you even get traction at all when flooring 1st gear)

Don't take MY word for it. Take Car & Driver's...
93-97 Probe GT Lateral G's = .90g
1985 Supra MKII Lateral G's = .77g
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,476 Posts
NoahFex said:
SupraRacer007 said:
NoahFex said:
Not downplaying the MKII, but honestly, stock, it is one of the worst handling cars I have ever driven....ever. Not saying with upgraded suspension it can't rule, but...hehe, sorry, but it sucks for handling.
If you're comparing a stock Probe to a stock MkII Supra, I'll take the Supra hands down any day.

I've driven 350Zs, 300ZX twin turbos, C5 Corvettes and recently a race tuned Shelby Cobra (replica) with a very sophisticated suspension. There is absolutely NOTHING wrong with the stock suspension on a MkII Supra.

Saying a stock MkII is a bad handling car can only mean one thing -- your Supra must have a really screwed up suspension or something.
I'm not comparing a Probe to a MKII, but since you brought it up, yes, a Probe GT wipes it's ass with a MKII when it comes to handling. But that is also a car with suspension that was designed by Mazda and has the highest skidpad rating in it's class. So don't say stuff you don't know.

I also used to have a C5 Vette. Stock for stock, the vette eats the MKII in handling. I've test drove a 300zx and I drove a 350Z. All outhandle the MKII.

Let me point out that I am not trashtalking the MKII, only being realistic.

I understand you wanting to back up your car you own, but also you need to understand that I own a MKII and am selling my Probe GT to buy another MKII. So I have nothing against the car, but I was merely pointing out that the car handles like ass when stock. Any car that has bouncy suspension (and bounces around/rocks right and left when coming out of a turn) is not a good handling car in my eyes.

Go out to a used car dealership, test drive a 93-97 Ford Probe GT. Make sure it's a GT, as it has the sport suspension package. Take some corners nice and fast and come back to tell me they don't make the MKII cry.

Don't take MY word for it. Take Car & Driver's...
93-97 Probe GT Lateral G's = .90g
1985 Supra MKII Lateral G's = .77g
I understand what you're saying but our cars handle very well. Dan Gurney driving one around Long Beach when they first came out and I was a senior in HS is still a very vivid memory. I also beleive that our cars were .85 or so on the skid pad. With 14" and tall side walls not the low profile 16" on a probe.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,108 Posts
well probes are just pieces of shit, there quality sucks, i think thats enough said, they just plain suck, you have to compared a stock mKII with a stock probe of the same year not those newer ones, its like comparing a probe crap car, with a markIV 93-97,
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7,111 Posts
one question :?: Nick

why compare a 82-86 mk2 to a 93-97 Probe GT?
I mean shouldnt you compare the 93-98 MK4 to the 93-97 Probe GT :?:
I know your trying to prove your point but the technology from that year is far way advanced to what the mk2 had back in the day its almost like a 10 year advanced Technology, even at that the mk2 still does pretty good compared the way you say it, just something to think about :wink:

Let me get one thing straight with you, im not bashing the Probe in any way shape or form, its a good car and all ok.
Im not starting a war here either ok :|
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,297 Posts
I understand you wanting to back up your car you own, but also you need to understand that I own a MKII and am selling my Probe GT to buy another MKII. So I have nothing against the car, but I was merely pointing out that the car handles like ass when stock. Any car that has bouncy suspension (and bounces around/rocks right and left when coming out of a turn) is not a good handling car in my eyes.
Nick,

Telling us that the MkII Supra handles like "ass" (I think that's the word you used) leads me to these questions:

1) How completely screwed is the suspension on your MkII? If your car is doing the things that you say it's doing - my friend, do NOT blame the car. I guarantee you it didn't come out of the Toyota plant handling like that. Other than Koni struts/shocks on my car, my suspension is mostly stock. My car also doesn't exhibit any the bad handling behaviors that you're describing and I drive my car very hard on twisty roads near Yosemite National Park pretty often. In fact, last Sunday I gave my new Kumho tires a little workout - and I was very pleased with how they did.

2) If the Probe GT is such wonderful car -- WHY are you getting rid of it to buy yet "another" MkII Supra?

Nick, everyone is entitled to their opinions. I have driven the cars you and I both discussed. You take your "stock" Probe GT and I'll drive my Supra. You put us both on a road course, like Laguna Seca for instance. I guarantee you my car with it's 20 year old technology will be more than competitive with your Probe. In fact, there are guys on the forum right now who compete in SCCA autocross at various levels - and they do it with a tremendous amount of success as well.

I'm glad you like your Supra enough to want another one, but I would take a serious look at your suspension before you tell the rest of us that our cars handle "like ass". I'm guessing your car is in need of struts, shocks and bushings. It could probably use an alignment and a set of softer compound tires wouldn't hurt either.

Not flaming you - but I KNOW the car is a better performer than you say it is.
 
1 - 20 of 52 Posts
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top