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It's important information, glad you shared it.

What comes next Carlos? 3liter? OS valves? ITB's? 9.5:1 compression? Megasquirt?

Remember, no one who has ascended Everest expects to do so without the climb.

--billyM
 

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Sorry to hear you just missed the mark Carlos. But it does look like you still have some tweaking to do, so I hope you get some more power out of it with getting things where they need to be.



Mine should be hitting the dyno in about a month, so we will see what a 3.1L can do.
 

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He quits the N/A team. :sadsmilie


So very few of us left to carry on. I wish I had $$$ to keep modifying, tuning and documenting. Although hitting the 200rwhp mark no longer matters to me very much, it's more about what the car is capable of doing on a 1/4 mile w/o boost or spray and lightened.

At any rate, sad to see this engine's disassembly.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Gentlemen (& Lady),

I don't quit the NA team, I only move over to the 2jz NA team. Once there, I will continue my quest for NA Power - this time streetable NA power, though. The 5MGE with the Gude cams was no fun to drive at 2,200 RPM or lower. It is this primarily, that has driven me to look for more streetable NA options.

Based on my research, I can get more power out of a stock NA 2jz than I have now with this "wild cam" beast... I will be able to cruise again and ride in 5th gear while driving below 55 MPH. Right now I can do neither - got to keep it about 2,500 RPM or greater...

The 5MGE still has more power in it, but to extract it would cause the car to be "NO FUN" to drive on the street!!!

Regards,

Carlos
 

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Gentlemen (& Lady),

I don't quit the NA team, I only move over to the 2jz NA team. Once there, I will continue my quest for NA Power - this time streetable NA power, though. The 5MGE with the Gude cams was no fun to drive at 2,200 RPM or lower. It is this primarily, that has driven me to look for more streetable NA options.

Based on my research, I can get more power out of a stock NA 2jz than I have now with this "wild cam" beast... I will be able to cruise again and ride in 5th gear while driving below 55 MPH. Right now I can do neither - got to keep it about 2,500 RPM or greater...

The 5MGE still has more power in it, but to extract it would cause the car to be "NO FUN" to drive on the street!!!

Regards,

Carlos
It needs stroked (6M), and it should gain useable power in the lower revs. Kinda one of the reasons why I usually end up starting in 2nd gear when coming from a stop on wet roads.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
83CelWA,

Second gear starts! Hah, I won't use second gear unless I am rolling nearly 30 MPH. Couple Gude cams with 3.90:1 rear gears and it is a recipe for low RPM disaster...

Regards,

Carlos
 

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83CelWA,

Second gear starts! Hah, I won't use second gear unless I am rolling nearly 30 MPH. Couple Gude cams with 3.90:1 rear gears and it is a recipe for low RPM disaster...

Regards,

Carlos
With what is sitting under my hood, the celipra with just start walking sideways if I am not careful with the revs (anything above 1200 when taking off) when it is wet outside. Really sucks when I have to pull out into traffic since I have to take it slow if using 1st gear.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
83CelWA,

I will be interested in seeing where you end up! I have always been curious how the Delta Cams compared to the Gudes... This should be a good comparison for those considereing cams in the future...

What we really need is another 5MGE to dyno the Delta Cams...

Regards,

Carlos
 

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With what is sitting under my hood, the celipra with just start walking sideways if I am not careful with the revs (anything above 1200 when taking off) when it is wet outside. Really sucks when I have to pull out into traffic since I have to take it slow if using 1st gear.

Have the same issue with my car, in the rain it's pretty much worthless, have to baby it until 4th. On the dry, anything over about 1200ish rpm barks the tires.
 

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sorry to see you didn't reach your goal carlos. Don't sound so depressed though, you've probably done the most of anybody in recent history to the 5m and have achieved the best results I have ever seen on one. I bet it its pretty fun to drive once the revs are up!

although it's a bit bitter sweet, congratulations on what you did try and achieve. It is just a number....but be proud at how greatly you did improve the efficiency of that motor! you've done what a lot of people have talked about for a long time.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Steve,

Thanks for your encouragement! I am still disappointed though - I feel as if I am walking away from something and leaving it incomplete...

Oh well, I guess I will need to make sure to complete the 2jz project. Thanks again...

Cheers,

Carlos
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
84ptype,

Yes, pistons would have easily put it over 200 HP. In-fact, I think I could still manage 200 HP with no further mods. I never did get around to optimizing the ignition or cam timing.

I had originally planned to stroke the motor, I already had all of the parts. But I realized that by stroking the motor my upper RPM potential would be reduced.

I had next decided to build a 5M bottom with a 7M head. This would have actually extended the upper RPM range of the motor. A 85mm stroke x 83.375mm bore...

Then I came across a motor with a 86mm stroke x 86mm bore, the 2jz. It has ~15% more valve area with 0.2 extra liters. What this equates to is a stock motor that comes with as much or more HP than my hyper-5M, right off the bat.

What it really means to me is having a car that maintains it's street manners, while still packing a punch. The 5M was throwing a little "baby jab," but it was not mannerable on the street around idle...

I was really dedicated to the 5M, but at the end of the day it only made good sense to go 2jz.

The valve area is the important factor! Even with over-sized valves, the 5M is still ~10% behind in valve area. The 7M is not bad, but the 91mm stroke kills the upper RPM potential. A 2jz NA is going to make max power above 7,000 RPM. The 7M NA makes max HP closer to 6,000 RPM.

P.S. 11.5:1 compression in the 2jz!

Regards,

Carlos
 

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Ahh, sorry to hear you missed the mark Carlos. You seemed pretty pumped about the 2j when we talked though; time to let this one go and move onto better things :)
 

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Then I came across a motor with a 86mm stroke x 86mm bore, the 2jz. It has ~15% more valve area with 0.2 extra liters. What this equates to is a stock motor that comes with as much or more HP than my hyper-5M, right off the bat.

The valve area is the important factor! Even with over-sized valves, the 5M is still ~10% behind in valve area. The 7M is not bad, but the 91mm stroke kills the upper RPM potential. A 2jz NA is going to make max power above 7,000 RPM. The 7M NA makes max HP closer to 6,000 RPM.

P.S. 11.5:1 compression in the 2jz!

Regards,

Carlos
One thing to consider is the long rods that 2J's have too Carlos, that equates to high rod length to stroke ratio. If it were me....and I'm a little on the crazy side....I'd use a 2J crank with shorter 1J rods and custom pistons with the pin landing lower in the piston to make up for the shorter rod. You would have the benefit of the square bore to stroke ratio, plus the short rod to stroke ratio that would help you get mad high rpm power! But like I said.....I'm loco ese'
 
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