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Ford GT40

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supraz
10
I'm in full curmudgeon mode today. It's hot and I just got back from the prairies
7
Ford GT40 Mk I - Prototype

https://www.classicdriver.com/en/article/autos/driven-1965-ford-gt40-roadster

Ford GT40 Mk I - 289 Cubic inch Ford Fairlane motor

http://hiconsumption.com/2016/06/auction-block-1966-ford-gt40-mk-1/

Ford GT40 Mk II -- Aaaah

Just your typical grocery getting Ford sedan motivation 427 Cubic Inch Ford Galaxy motor

Now that's a functional rear end

http://www.finescale.com/product-info/kit-reviews/2009/10/trumpeter-1-12-scale-ford-gt40-mkii

Ford GT40 Mk III - Street Car 289 Cubic inch
Wire Wheels
Sold as a street car from the beginning.

http://www.topcarrating.com/1967-ford-gt40-mk-3-mark-iii.php

Ford GT40 Mk IV
This is the one that makes Italian and German car makers sweat at night
The Mk. IV ran in only two races, the 1967 12 Hours of Sebring and the 1967 24 Hours of Le Mans and won both events.

http://www.roadandtrack.com/car-culture/g5273/photos-1967-ford-gt-40-mk-iv/

Just a couple'a good ol' boys - Dan Gurney and AJ Foyt


http://performance.ford.com/series/...ons-of-ford-performance--mark-iv-engines.html

If you can't beat them, change the rules. That's the only way the Europeans could beat this car.

The Ford GT40 had a long and interesting history.
When Ford wanted to go endurance racing they went to Eric Broadley and Lola Automobiles in England to design a chassis. Ford hamstrung the English by demanding that the chassis be constructed of steel because Ford was more comfortable with this than aluminum. As a result these cars were seriously overweight.
They started with 255 cubic inch small blocks and switched to 289 cubic inch small blocks for the production Mark Is.
If a little is good, a whole pile more is a whole pile better. Ford went with the 427 cubic inch FE big block for the Mark II
The Mark III was a street version of the Mark I and sold to the public in England. 7 were sold. The 289 was detuned to 335 hp.
Ford decided to get serious and totally redesigned the GT40 in the USA by Kar Kraft using aluminum and modern construction techniques.
The GT40 Mark IV is the only time there was a totally American victory at Le Mans. An American car with an American engine driven by American drivers and an American team.

2004-2006 Ford GT

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_GT

Supercharged 5.4L modular V8
A pretty well executed redo of the Ford GT40 Mk III

2016-2020 Ford GT
3.5 liter twin-turbocharged EcoBoost V6 engine making 647 hp

Well, I guess if you go to Home Depot and have to bring some 2x4's home you can stick them in that tunnel.
Okay, okay, it's not THAT bad looking, and it may be aerodynamically efficient, but it's just got too much junk on it.

Oh, and in case you are wondering why the new cars are Ford GTs rather than Ford GT40s, the brain trust at Ford forgot to copyright the name GT40.
A company, Safir Engineering Ltd. copyrighted the name in 1985. In 1999 the name was transferred to Safir GT40 Spares Inc. which makes spare parts for the original Ford GT40s. Safir offered to sell the name to Ford for get this, $40 million! Ford declined.
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supraz
2
They are breath taking cars.
They are from the golden age of racing and the golden age of car design when there was as much art and seat of the pants engineering as true science.
They may be old, but they are truly gorgeous.

The whole story of Ford taking on Ferrari at Le Mans is just so epic!

All the characters involved Henry Ford II, Enzo Ferrari, Caroll Shelby, Eric Broadley, Dan Gurney, AJ Foyt.

The cars of this era are so gorgeous.

Manufacturers of this era all made gorgeous designs, but Ford certainly was involved with its share.

De Tomaso Mangusta

De Tomaso Pantera - sold through Lincoln Mercury

Old versus new. Yeah old!

Crotchety old Codger
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supraz
Here is a great web site that talks about the Mk II winning LeMans.

http://gt40.rkmotorscharlotte.com

This company had the 2nd place car restored. There is even controversy about which car won the race. They discuss it on this web site.
I think it gives a great back drop to the headline 'Ford Wins LeMans'
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supraz
drjim said:
Yep. I grew up in that era. Got my driver's license in 1966 and had been reading Car and Driver and Road & Track since I was 10.

Lola T70 MKIII is another favorite of mine, along with the Ferrari P3.
Click to expand...
I always remember reading the 'Classified' section in the back of Road & Track. Around 1970 there was always an ad for a Mark I and a Mark IV by a Dr. Harry Heinl from Hialeah Florida.
After Ford was done with the racing program they sold all of the cars off. Apparently Harry had some sort of relationship with Ford and bought several of the cars.

I recall reading a Peterson Publishing publication from the mid-70s that talked about him (I'm pretty sure) deciding that one of the Mk Is needed the Quad Cam Indy 255 Ford V8 in it.
It's sort of sacrilege now to consider doing this, but hey, the guy loved these cars; why not take an Indianapolis winning Ford engine and stick it in a LeMans winning Ford car!

I have been looking for this magazine for years to re-read the details.

At one time or another he owned:

#1061 – Mark 1 289 Cubic Road Spec from 1968 to 1969
#1068 –Mark 1 289 Cubic Inch Road car from 1968 to 1971
#1076 – Mark 1 302 Cubic Inch Lightweight Race Special from 1972 to 1976
#J-3 – J Car 1970 to 1973
#J-11 –J- car Unnumbered spare chassis tub never used from 1970 to 1977
#J-7 – Mark IV 1970 to 1982

I would love to read more about this man. He must have some stories to tell.

Sigh.
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supraz
SilverMk2 said:
I think you missed the best part of the original GT40. The car was created as a big middle finger to Ferrari to beat them at Le Mans after old man Ferrari screwed Ford. Ferrari won Le Mans for several years straight beforehand and they haven't been back since in an official capacity. The cars originally in their first couple of years were horribly unreliable until they got Ken Miles and Shelby involved. Ford spent a ridiculous amount to money and time to pull it off.
Click to expand...
I love the story as well, but there are always 2 sides to every story.
Apparently Enzo Ferrari wanted to sell the company to Ford to fund his racing efforts. He saw selling street cars as a means to an end rather than the end itself. After being told that he would have complete freedom to run the racing team, he found in fine print that he would have to beg for budget.

I'm sure for someone as proud as Enzo Ferrari, it must have been insanely infuriating to be a small cog in a big organization. I can see why he would renege on the talks.

http://www.autonews.com/article/199...tory-reveals-why-enzo-ferrari-said-no-to-ford

It's the small company versus big corporation issue which I think we all can sympathize with. Having said that, I love Ford, and I love the idea of ANYTHING that pisses off Ford enough to go racing with both guns blazing, damn the cost!

I still think that if Ford or even GM (ugh, I just threw up in my mouth saying this) went into Formula 1 seriously, they would kick the butt of current dominant manufacturer Mercedes. American engineers are among the best in the world, and given unlimited freedom to compete, they would do the same thing they did back in the '60s.
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supraz
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What I love about Ford are their one off, it makes no sense moves that make such memorable illogical cars.

This Italian guy pissed me off. I will spend 10s of millions of dollars and untold R&D effort to get back at him.

They invest in De Tomaso to come out with the Pantera, a sexy mid-engine Italian designed super car with a 351 Cleveland engine to compete with the Chevrolet Corvette.
The gas tanks were not the highest quality so they leaked gasoline. Pantera owners complained to Ford who offered to buy the cars back. The owners refused, saying "no, we don't want to get rid of the cars, we love them, but we don't want them to explode"! What does Ford do, they hire a company to fix the gas tanks.

Imagine being a Pantera owner when a van labeled "Shelby American" pulls up to your driveway and fiberglass coats your gas tank in your driveway!!!!!!! Courtesy of Ford.

Chevy always had better mass produced engines, but HiPo 289s, Boss 302s, Boss 351s, 427 Tunnel Ports, 427 SOHCs, Boss 429s were these niche vehicles that Ford came out with to compete.

Ford always struck me as the American manufacturer who really loved cars versus Chevy who made corporate decisions that really were better for the consumers at large, but were always ruled by the bean counters.

1974 Corvette - Very nice

http://www.corvetteonline.com/news/...stingray-to-be-auctioned-saturday-in-monterey

1974 De Tomaso Pantera 351C

https://www.hemmings.com/classifieds/cars-for-sale/detomaso/pantera-l/1972100.html

Both these cars are VERY nice, but the Pantera is just so much more EXOTIC.

I will never forget about 10 years ago when my nephew came by one summer evening when I was cutting the back lawn. He comes out the back and says that our neighbor has a kit car and that he's having trouble backing it over the curb. I had never seen my neighbor's car so I go up front and what do I see, a 1974 De Tomaso Pantera in burnt orange, like the one above. I can't believe my eyes and his wife is there. She says that he is now out the back cutting the lawn, but would I like to talk to him about his car. I'm like "would I?" He comes out and tells me that his best friend died and GAVE him this car in his will! He asks would I like to go for a ride in it? Uh Yeah.
So we get in, there is this small block thumping about 6" behind my left ear as he backs this thing over the curb like a grandmother. I'm thinking dear lord, he doesn't deserve to own this thing. So he finishes turning it up the street, quickly tachs it up to about 4,000rpm and drops the clutch. The rear of the car stepped about 3 feet to the side and that Cleveland WAILS behind us. Italian style and American muscle. I WILL NEVER FORGET THAT MOMENT.

Sigh. That is the difference between GM and Ford.
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supraz
drjim said:
You should read the books by Bob Lutz. He pulls no punches in describing what went on at The Big Three. Brock Yate's book is also very good.
Click to expand...
Jim, what is the name of Brock Yate's book? I will get it for sure.

And just so you know, I realize that GM has great cars too. I am just one of the guys who loves Fords (and Toyotas too of course!).

I also love underdogs. I love American Motors Corporation cars, for those of us old enough (mature enough, I'm not old) to remember what they were!
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supraz
SupraFiend said:
But really, who won in that deal? Ferrari is considered one of the absolute most valuable brands in the world now. Their street cars are basically the most sought after exotics in the world and considered fantastic investments. It would be a very differnt automotive world today if Enzo had gone thru with that deal.
Click to expand...
I think all car lovers won on this one. It's an awesome story at so many different levels. Ferrari stayed independent until bought by Fiat which truly has Italian DNA which makes the fit the best possible.

Ford has one of those stories that helps define the brand. Decades later, Ford comes out with their Ford GT and excites the car buying public about the brand. They spent $100 million...so what? Whew, I wish I could say that about myself. For them while a lot of money, it could have been spent on a new department that optimizes hub cap technology.

A lot of little companies and people won. Eric Broadley and Lola must have been recompensed adequately to fund their own racing. Shelby American, Kar Kraft, John Wyer Automotive Engineering all benefited from the GT40.

I suspect that even Ferrari made out based on the rivalry. While most Americans probably had heard of Ferrari, how many actually knew about their racing history? After Ford says that they want their head, everyone would be aware of them. I'll wager Ferrari got the Monday morning (or a week Monday depending on radio and magazine coverage) sales bump after Le Mans in the states.

I think any car lover would shudder to hear Ford buying Ferrari. It would truly have been horrible.
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supraz
supraz said:

2016-2020 Ford GT
3.5 liter twin-turbocharged EcoBoost V6 engine making 647 hp

Well, I guess if you go to Home Depot and have to bring some 2x4's home you can stick them in that tunnel.
Okay, okay, it's not THAT bad looking, and it may be aerodynamically efficient, but it's just got too much junk on it.
Click to expand...


http://www.motorauthority.com/news/...production-next-spring-arriving-as-2017-model

The second generation Honda NSX was being displayed in 2015 and was released in 2016.
The Ford GT was being displayed in 2015 and was released in 2016.

Is this a case of two aerodynamics teams independently came up with the same concept, or a case of 'monkey see, monkey do'?
They put a hole in their car. We'll put a bigger hole in our car.

I'm sure that every new super car that comes out will have a larger tunnel than the previous one.
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supraz
SupraFiend said:
pffffft, BMW beat both of them to market by years...
Click to expand...
Yes. I knew there was at least one other out there but I couldn't remember it!
We'll just have to wait another 20 years until these are all barn finds and find what all is stuck in these crevices!

I know there are only so many looks out there, but really, couldn''t somebody do something at list a little different?

This is sort of a reverse canyon, but hey at least they come by this one honestly!

You call that a hole? THESE are holes!

http://www.caranddriver.com/photo-gallery/morgan-3-wheeler-debuts-at-geneva-auto-show-news-gallery#1


And I dare say that if you parked a Morgan 3 wheeler and a Ford GT in a parking lot, which would have the bigger crowd around it? Uh huh!
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supraz
Waltzing off on yet another tangent...
To all the youngsters who think drifting is easy.
This is how drifting should really be done. Mind you I hope that he has spare underpants.


Drifting a 3-wheeler
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supraz
http://morgan3w.de/photos/album4.htm
A little older model. He swapped engines in 1927.

http://morgan3w.de/photos/photos.htm
This site has absolutely amazing pictures from days gone by.

http://morgan3wheeler.us/about/history
The story of how the new 3-Wheeler came about sounds like a movie script. Morgan was looking to do something to celebrate the 100th anniversary of the Morgan Car Company in 2012 and they heard about this fellow in Seattle who was building replicas. Morgan reps flew over and obviously liked it. They bought the rights from him!

http://www.roadandtrack.com/car-culture/a26664/peter-egan-morgan-road-trip/

If I was rich instead of so darned good looking, I would be driving one of these...
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supraz
Well, I finally saw this episode of Jay Leno's Garage

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7-MCdfqL61E#t=391.0221623

It's the best review of the new Ford GT that I have seen. It gives me more respect for the car, and also I will grudgingly admit that perhaps the aero tunnels are actually aero tunnels! Who knew?

I have to say that the headline 'Ford GT wins Le Mans" is a bit misleading. They won the LMGTE Pro class which means that they finished 18th overall.
This all depends on the class rules each year which can change and make other classes more or less competitive.
It still is a fantastic accomplishment. The competition in this class was pretty serious.

McLaren by comparison, unexpectedly got the overall win in 1995, albeit because of technical problems suffered by most of the faster Le Mans Prototype class cars.

However, it's still a fantastic achievement that I was not really aware of.
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supraz
Okay, I just saw this episode of Jay Leno's Garage.

https://youtu.be/Ef-diAKgRSs

He interviews Camilo Pardo, the head designer of the 2005 Ford GT.
This is fascinating. Camilo describes some of the battles that he had to fight to get the car out the way he wanted. Often you wonder why things were done the way the were and he explains them.

Camilo wanted to keep the dual gas filler tanks in the front fenders of the car. They were there on the GT40 for dual gas tanks and he thinks they add symmetry. The GT has a single tank so Ford did not want to add the second lid. Camilo suggested using the second gas cap for windshield washer fluid.

Engineer: What if they put gas in there, and light their windshield on fire?
Designer: No they won't
Engineer: Yes they will.

Sadly, I'm sure the Engineers were correct!

I love the part where Niki Lauda tells him that the side scoops look like shit! (And Lauda was Austrian, not German)

http://www.camilopardo.com/about

His web site and a bit about him.

https://www.autoblog.com/2009/01/15/ford-gt-designer-camilo-pardo-leaving-the-blue-oval/

He no longer works for Ford but has his own company.

Dale
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supraz
For pure racing movies, the absolutely best, bar none, is "Lemans" starring the King of Cool, Steve McQueen.

The plot is crap, the dialog minimal. Who cares? The racing cinematography is startling superb.

The film predated CGI and is stunning. Most of the film was shot at Lemans between June and November in 1970. The film company tried to enter a real Porsche 917 in the race, but was not accepted. (It was to have been driven by Steve McQueen and Jackie Stewart). A 3L Porsche 908/2 film car with film cameras mounted was actually entered in the race and finished 9th overall, 2nd in the 3L Prototype class. It was not classified at the end because it had not completed an adequate number of laps due to having to stop and continually change film cartridges.

At one point, crew members urged the producers to stop changing film as they felt they had a chance to win the actual race overall!

Two Lola T70s were dressed up in Porsche 917 and Ferrari 512 bodywork and actually crashed under remote control for the film. At the time they were obsolete junk, now people cry when they hear this.

There are scenes filmed on the 240 mph Mulsanne straight with close ups of a 917 coming up on a 512, pulling around, and passing. This was filmed by having a film camera on a 6 foot bar attached to the rear of the film car. When the car moves to pass, the bar is unpinned and swings to the rear to allow a side view of the 512 being overtaking in extreme close up. Apparently the camera swing severely unbalanced the film car and it nearly crashed.

If you love any automobiles, you HAVE to see this movie.

Here is a link to a great web site that discussed the film car

https://www.stuttcars.com/about-porsche/le-mans-film/

Steve McQueen is a god!

Dale
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supraz
supraz said:
For pure racing movies, the absolutely best, bar none, is "Lemans" starring the King of Cool, Steve McQueen.

The plot is crap, the dialog minimal. Who cares? The racing cinematography is startling superb.

The film predated CGI and is stunning. Most of the film was shot at Lemans between June and November in 1970. The film company tried to enter a real Porsche 917 in the race, but was not accepted. (It was to have been driven by Steve McQueen and Jackie Stewart). A 3L Porsche 908/2 film car with film cameras mounted was actually entered in the race and finished 9th overall, 2nd in the 3L Prototype class. It was not classified at the end because it had not completed an adequate number of laps due to having to stop and continually change film cartridges.

At one point, crew members urged the producers to stop changing film as they felt they had a chance to win the actual race overall!

Two Lola T70s were dressed up in Porsche 917 and Ferrari 512 bodywork and actually crashed under remote control for the film. At the time they were obsolete junk, now people cry when they hear this.

There are scenes filmed on the 240 mph Mulsanne straight with close ups of a 917 coming up on a 512, pulling around, and passing. This was filmed by having a film camera on a 6 foot bar attached to the rear of the film car. When the car moves to pass, the bar is unpinned and swings to the rear to allow a side view of the 512 being overtaking in extreme close up. Apparently the camera swing severely unbalanced the film car and it nearly crashed.

If you love any automobiles, you HAVE to see this movie.

Here is a link to a great web site that discussed the film car

Le Mans, the film

Steve McQueen is a god!

Dale
Click to expand...


This is not the whole movie, but a good part of it.

Time 23:16 is the start of the crash using two Lola T70s.

Time 36:35 is the REAL closeup of a Ferrari 512 being passed as discussed above.

Lemans is very controversial because it is hard core racing and nothing else, but everyone should watch it at least once.

And the SOUND glorious.

Dale
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