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Discussion Starter #1
Not knowing the inputs to Hagerty's HVR score, it seems to be a widely fluctuating number from month to month and may have no practical significance. Still it prompted them to include the Celica Supra in an article. Twenty years ago I called them to ask about insurance. They didn't have a clue what kind of car I was talking about and even seemed quite annoyed that I'd bother them about a Japanese "Subaru". Its on their radar now.

https://www.hagerty.com/articles-videos/articles/2019/12/26/10-cars-and-trucks-that-made-a-huge-turnaround-in-2019-for-better-or-worse?utm_source=SFMC&utm_medium=email&utm_content=20_January_2_Newsletter_NewDD
 

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Thanks for sharing. making that list is at least recognition that we are all not crazy, or maybe we are? :zzzzz:
 

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We are certainly not crazy. Hagerty and the general population have been the ones who are crazy, though I think much of the general population is simply unaware of these cars, particularly many of the younger generations. I have had young people say "cool car, what is it?". There are many people who have never seen these cars, but when they do, it turns their head. I do wish it had more power from the OE, but they are one of the most visually striking cars of the time period. It is just a matter of time before everyone else figures out that we MK2 owners are automotive visionaries.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Mine being silver, I've had kids at car shows come running up all excited thinking it was a Delorean Time Machine like in the movies only to be disappointed when I tell them its not.

The fact that the government environmental regulations in the 80s exceeded the available technology of the time resulting in lower horsepower is really the only thing holding back values of 80s cars today. By the mid 90s, they'd overcome that hurdle and the horsepower wars were back on. But a little history: Cars of the 1950s also had v8s with well under 200hp stock and they were much bigger and heavier cars. And some riding lawnmowers today have more horsepower than many pre-war cars. Those all had their heydays, achieving astronomical values and the 1980s will too eventually.

But that's where "modifications" and engine swaps kind of come in. By the late 40s, after the war, enthusiasts were swapping Ford flatheads into just about everything made before the war. By the early 70s, they were swapping Chevy 350s into just about everything made before 1964. Same thing again, by the early 2000s, people were swapping 2JZs into just about everything made before 1996. Before cars become really collectable, its the enthusiasts who start driving up values primarily by modifying them. Its really kind of later, after so many cars have been transformed and the guy's who remember wishing for a brand new one reach retirement age that the values of original, unmodified cars rocket past the "restomods". The pattern just keeps repeating itself with each generation, each new decade of cars and each new "legendary" engine. Whether you want extra horsepower or prefer an all original car, barring another recession, there's going to be value appreciation either way.

But at least our Supra aren't 70s cars. Manufacturers had at least by the 80s overcome the styling challenges presented by 70s insurance safety requirements and no longer had hideously oversized external bumpers. But of course, what's going on in that market? Importing the thinner European and/or Japanese bumpers. Where there is a will, there is always a way....
 

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Fine with me if the CS is gaining value, but I didn't buy it as an investment. Hagerty says in their article that the MK2 isn't the most desirable of the Supras. I disagree. Unless they value desirability by stock horsepower.

When shopping 10 years ago, I could afford a MK3, probably not a MK4, but what I really wanted was a MK2. This is the car that caught my eye as a teenager wayyyy back. So what if it has the power of a modern day 4 banger ? It's just gorgeous :)

I have two old Toyotas, but I can't insure with Hagerty in Canada because they mention on their website that the minimum appraised value must be $3500. My MK2 easily qualifies, but my other Toy doesn't.
 

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Discussion Starter #6 (Edited)
Classic cars are never really a good "investment" anyway. We like to talk about how much the values appreciate or how much we made when we sold one, but we never think about the cost of ownership. Its not like stock in a company that you buy online, do nothing, and sell when it goes up and it only cost you $7 trade fee. They have to be driven at least occasionally and that leads to gas and maintenance and insurance. Cars are rather large physical assets that have to be protected from the weather in order to appreciate in value. Heck, the electric bill for my little metal building averages $175 a month. Even if you have just one classic car at home in your attached garage, that probably means your daily driver is outside in the weather depreciating much faster than if it were indoors. Then there's taxes on the square footage, building upkeep, etc. That storage is actually quite expensive. If you were to put pencil to paper and figure out just how much your classic car hobby really costs you, you're probably more often losing money. The value appreciation is really just a consolation that maybe you're not losing ALL of the money you spend. There are worse hobbies like golf. Every dollar you spend on a round of golf is just gone. At least with a classic car's value appreciation you may get 10 or 20 percent back when your kids tell you that you're too old to drive anymore. Me, I'm just hoping the Supra will pay for two or three months in a "nice" nursing home instead of state-run institution. ;)
 

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Cars are not investments.
Unfortunately they are to some people. I bought mine because I've always wanted one, arguably the best reason for buying it. I paid $3k for it, and now Hagerty values it at $9100.

Of course it's only "worth" what somebody will pay for it, but it's nice to know I probably won't lose any money if/when I ever sell it.
 

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Well at least if I sell it, I might get what I put into it. I Think I have been in negative numbers for years.
 

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Unfortunately they are to some people. I bought mine because I've always wanted one, arguably the best reason for buying it. I paid $3k for it, and now Hagerty values it at $9100.

Of course it's only "worth" what somebody will pay for it, but it's nice to know I probably won't lose any money if/when I ever sell it.
Lemme rephrase a little. Cars should not be seen as investments. Sometimes people get lucky but probably more than 99% of the time they are a losing proposition, financially.

I get a chuckle when I file through craigslist and see the classic "20k invested, my loss is your gain." Yeah, that's called 20k spent, not invested.
 

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Agree 100%. I've never bought a car as an investment, even though I've been tempted to a few times. Buying something for a quick flip is different, and I have done that a few times.

"The Market" seems to have come back to reality a bit, with some car prices dropping quite a bit, while others keep climbing.
 
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