Toyota Celica Supra Forum banner

1 - 18 of 18 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
35 Posts
Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
So attempt to be patient with me... (Since i raaaarely use forums) unless im desperate for info/education...

So... I gotta 82 mk2.. Love it.. Swapped an ol' cressida 7mge in it.. Runnin on a n.a. supra (auto) ecu and harness.. Motors rebuilt with muuuch material decked on block and milled off head.. Also has 30 over on bore... Its a hyper ass motor..and im not complaining about its power in any way... Fun a.f. in a 3000lb rust bucket supra with 3.73 gears like mine...

So having said all that.. All you "just turbo it" 7m trolls...

..... Here i am... A n.a. 7m LOVER..... Convert me..
........... Havin seen "father cleetus" test the new "Torqueamp" electric turbo on that bow tie fwd 4 cylinder... Is there any way i could do this install without getting gte electronics to have better tuning capabilities? Since the ge ecu has little to none?

Or does it sound foolish.. Which maybe the whole idea is foolish.. All i know is..

Eventually elec. Turbos are gonna be a thing... And as most 7mge lovers...i like to keep things simple and DONT want to gte my car..
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
35 Posts
Discussion Starter #2
Im thinkin... Slap thicker head gasket on her, throw a couple more psi into fuel regulator, advance timing a lil, and remove valve overlap cam timing back to stock...

Shove turbo to intake pipe and plug the controller to 12 volts.. And BAM... now id be the "just turbo" it troll like all of yall....

?????
 

·
Founding Member
Joined
·
6,401 Posts
You have to be able to modify the fuel injector pulse width or fuel pressure along with spark advance to compensate for air density. The 7m-gte electronics are very different, still very ancient and very much hard coded to what the ct-26 does.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
35 Posts
Discussion Starter #4
Wouldnt i be able to do this with a gte computer combined with a piggy back computer?

I ask because i had assumed there is no way to put aftermarket computer on a ge computer.. Us ge peeps have it ol skool when it comes to tunin..

Maybe in some far away future there will be a "universal stand alone computer" that will run any motor it is in touch with via electronics..

And tinkering of course
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
35 Posts
Discussion Starter #5
Also...we are only talkin 5psi here..

Maybe ge computer wouldnt know what to do with the addition of boost.. But id assume havin gte ecu would be able to tune around the measily 3-5psi that lil thing is pushin..
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,532 Posts
To put any kind of forced induction on an engine (even 'only' 5 psi) you need to be able to increase fuelling because of the extra air and to run a more rich AFR and pull timing. On a 7MGE, this means either a complete switch to GTE electronics, or make a custom engine harness and run a piggyback computer. For the expense of that and the electric turbo, it would be easier to put a stock 1JZGT into the car instead on the stock wiring and ECU.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
20 Posts
besides how many amps would an electric turbo need? I am thinking alot more then the supra can do.
but a cool idea thats coming for sure
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
8,352 Posts
These things were kind of trendy with the twin crowd for awhile, but I noticed most of the people bought them sold them and bought real superchargers and turbos after that. That should tell you all you need to know. You get a little 5-10 sec boost of like 20 hp and then it can be several minutes before its ready again. There just isn't enough power on a 12V system to power a significantly sized motor. That's why electric cars are 400-800V systems.
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
10,544 Posts
I found the vid you referenced...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7a_J2X88fSE

Thats pretty cool that there is finally an electric supercharger on the market that is isn't complete BS. Any one that is powered entirely off the stock electrical system is BS, as SilverMk2 mentioned traditional cars don't have enough volts to actually make any real boost. But this TorqAmp thing comes with a big box that is no doubt a giant capacitor, and as long as your alt is healthy (making at least 14volts), its charging the thing up for a shot, and they claim it amps up the current to 48v (for a limited time). So these seem to function more like a nitrous system then, or like the scramble boost button Mclarens and some other cars have where you get a little extra boost for a short period when you hit a button. Which is not horrible, on something like an autox course, there's usually only a couple points where you can go completely full throttle, but it would be a little pointless on a road coarse unless you were actually doing wheel to wheel racing and just using it to pass people.

Another thing to keep in mind, in that video they are testing the unit on a 2.2l 4cyl, and it hits 5psi at like 2000-3000rpm, but as the motor climbs to red line, the boost fell off to about 2psi. Very curious if that was more from the motor ingesting more air at higher RPM, or if the capacitor was running out of charge at that point! Regardless, on a 3.0l, you are going to get even less boost as the motor will consume even more air, so the percentage of increase in output they saw won't be as high. And there doesn't appear to be a size option for this thing, so they don't have one that is more suitable for a bigger motor.

Another downside, unless you plumb in some kind of intake channel valve, the compressor itself is a big restriction when its not running. On the little 2.2 they only lost about 12% power when it was off, but it will be even more on a bigger motor. Plus you have to haul around whatever the weight of the capacitor box and compressor is all the time, so you will be slower then you were before at all times the compressor isn't engaged.

Also as was mentioned, you need standalone to insure you don't fry your motor. 5psi is nothing to scoff at, its enough to strain the shitty factory composite head gaskets these motors have, way outflow the stock 5mge injectors, and push your A/F numbers into dangerous territory. The stock 7mgte EFI system might be able to deal with this actually, it does sense boost and its MAF will see the uptake in air flowing in and it might be able to keep the A/F happy enough. A stock ct26 will put out like 7psi so there is more then enough headroom.

Anyways, this thing is kinda cool, but its a little hard to justify at the price point it comes in, and the disadvantages it has. I think traditional nitrous would be superior (and cheaper!), its only downside is you have to constantly refill it. But at $2500, you are spending more then what a complete 1jzgte costs, spending about what a single good new turbo costs, more then what a complete used 7mgte turbo setup costs, similar cost to a good new supercharger, etc. Its a tough sell.

Hey you didn't mention what you're running your 7mge on, stock 7mge electronics? You said you really liked your motor, and a 7m with more compression and displacement then stock is a very potent combo in a mk2, but you've left several things on the table. If you are running this thing on the factory 5mge electronics still, then you are super restricted in output by the 5m's horrible AFM, and its propensity to over fuel. Stand alone could actually net you some really good gains if you are on anything less then the full 7mge electronics, and they are working perfectly. Headers offer big gains over the stock manifold, and that 3.72 is doing you no favours. I would jump up to a 4.1 or 4.3 (especially if you are stock tire diameter or greater), and you will transform how your car accelerates, especially out of the hole. Your motor with proper tuning and bolt ons and maybe an adjustable cam gear on the exhaust cam has been proven here to be capable of putting down pretty much 200lbs/ft to the wheels, which is really good. I'd optimize what you have to that point before dumping 2500 bucks on something that you can only use for discrete periods to get more output, and reduces your perf at all other times.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
35 Posts
Discussion Starter #11
TT...... All are good points.. And compleeeeetely agree with price part... But consider this...

When you blow 2,500 bucks on turbo motor.. It cant be installed in another vehicle..

But when you buy this new fangled "lighting snail" machine... I can put it on any car i own.. And my next car and the next.. Etc..

The 2 wire install and "re-installability" is a great selling point imo
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
35 Posts
Discussion Starter #12
Also under my hood there is almost nothing from the 5m.. My my ecu and harness are from a 89 supra

And ive blown enough heads to know that ud be a fool to put stock head gasket on it. Im runnin the thinnest mls aftermarket gasket that is made with arp head studs.. And thats after gettin the mating surfaces on the block and head machined flat at Houston's best machine shop...

......the damn thing compresion tested 5psi apart across all cylinders averaging 205psi.. ??

Id prolly get the thickest mls head gasket made and get that compression down a lil before addin a supercharger.. ????
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
35 Posts
Discussion Starter #13
Also i kinda made this post just to try and get a conversation goin on is capacitor powered supercharger phenomenon... Maybe im wrong.. But i can only assume that in 5 years we MAY have way better versions of this electric supercharger thing..

The fact that wherever you can have one.. You can install 2... The fact that batteries are getting better every year...

Who knows in 5 years these things may make 12 psi..

Its coming.. I can feeels it yal..??

I know one a yall 7m gurus could figure out how to make a 7m gte ecu work with an "electric snail"

Then i can keep my classic pacesetter from the 90s installed ?

Also the intake divider thing to divert for idle and when not using turbo... Yeah that thing.....

Yeah i think if the electric turbo company was smart they would incorporate such a valve into there design to make it even coooooler.. ?
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
10,544 Posts
Also under my hood there is almost nothing from the 5m.. My my ecu and harness are from a 89 supra

And ive blown enough heads to know that ud be a fool to put stock head gasket on it. Im runnin the thinnest mls aftermarket gasket that is made with arp head studs.. And thats after gettin the mating surfaces on the block and head machined flat at Houston's best machine shop...

......the damn thing compresion tested 5psi apart across all cylinders averaging 205psi.. ����

Id prolly get the thickest mls head gasket made and get that compression down a lil before addin a supercharger.. ��������
Thats really good, I would go standalone and optimize your setup and see where you end up. You should be able to cross the 200lbs/ft mark with that engine, and if you add more lightness, it will be plenty quick. That paceshitter you're running, remake it from the Y pipe south and get rid of the horrible 2inch diameter section if you havn't yet (as well as any other points in your exhaust where it necks down less then 2.5 inches). I made good power with a PS header modified that way, though there are still better options. Its not the worst design in the world, the build quality and the down pipe on it are just really annoying.

As for the re-installablity bit, that kind of only applies to motors that you can easily retune. Not everyone drives a GM with an ECU thats been cracked wide open and can be retuned for free with software downloaded off the internet and a wireless OBD2 adapter.

Making the 7mgte ecu work... there's not really anything to it there. People have actually taken the gte electronics and run them on a stock 7mge before, and gotten perfectly acceptable A/F ratios. Those ecus, like any turbo ecu, are designed to deal with variance in boost in different conditions and adjust fuel as necessary. Thats why they have boost sensors. The stock ecu with stock 440cc injectors should be able to adjust for any kind of boost in the 5 to 9psi range without needing any real tuning. It might not be the most ideal ratio, but I would think it would handle the 5psi this thing puts out pretty happily without any other mods other then retrofitting your motor to run the gte electronics.

For sure about the future though. This is a great first serious effort, and I'm very much looking forward to see where it goes from here. I've been waiting for legit electric superchargers for decades myself, theoretically they are an awesome way to go. But don't discount traditional ones. These TorqAmp guys like to tout that theirs doesn't leach power off the engine like a belt drive would, or restrict exhaust flow before boost kicks in as a turbo does, but that claim isn't quite true. I dyno tested once with my 2500cfm electric fan off and then again with it off, and I lost a couple HP from the extra electrical drain from the alternator. So far, no one has invented truly free energy ;)

I'm pretty sure the drop in PSI seen during their dyno run is from the engine spinning faster. The specs on this thing says it can run for at least 2 minutes when its fully charged (says 4 actually, but as low as 2 if it runs hot). It says its a 1:10 ratio for output time vs charge time, and it doesn't charge at all when engaged to minimize drain on the alternator. So although under WOT the alt drain doesn't eat HP, it does anytime the compressor isn't running. Anyways, that's not all that bad. It has enough juice for a quarter mile run and an autox run, but I wouldn't use it on a real race track. They need to get that ratio to 50:50 for it to be useful on a track car. Also, total system weight sounds like it adds about 25lbs, also not too bad. And as you noted you could run 2 of these to get double the flow and more boost, but that's like 5grand and 50lbs, not fantastic again.

Hey, as for the intake divertor valve thing I mentioned, guess they thought of that already...
https://torqamp.com/bypass/
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2 Posts
Hi all - new here and new to the game. Just picked up a 2JGTE swapped Mkii.

No idea how it was done (bought not built) but its clean as, looks stock. But definately takes all the space (battery is relocated to the boot).
(@isthata2j)

Would recommend going all the way if feasible $$ / you can get a low km 2j.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
35 Posts
Discussion Starter #16
Reply to suprafiend: thanks for at least rolling the idea around a bit.. I also think the turbo computer could handle this setup.. But i have to admit.. Id like to run standalone and not sure on how to get the motor to run n.a. with turbo ecu..

And once again.. Im not saying any of this would be cost efficient or better than a exhaust driven turbo build..

Im just pondering this stuff scientifically and theoretically.. Wondering if id have the opportunity to actually do something "first" and have data on what a double electric turbo setup could do for a 7m..

And as a response to the "get a 4.30 diff vs the 3.73 i have" .... I totally get that.. But there is just something special about cruising at 75-80 and only be runnin 3100 rpm..
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
10,544 Posts
I run shorter tires then stock so the stock 4.3 is just a touch unbearable on the highway, so I swapped to a 4.1 and its a decent compromise. But lets put it this way, I hate how much acceleration off the line I lost just going from a 4.3 to a 4.1. I have a highway cruiser mk2 as well with a 3.72 and its fine for that car, but its no autox demon thats for sure.

A dude just ran the 7mgte electronics straight up on a 7mge here many years ago and it seemed to work pretty good. He widebanded it too and the numbers were pretty decent. You might have to move to the 7mgte intake if you do it however. Cressidas actually had 7mge's with that same intake so it works fine, probably loose a few lbs/ft in the mid range from the lack of the ACIS system.

I'd compare this thing to a belt driven supercharger vs a turbo setup.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
35 Posts
Discussion Starter #18
Niice... Well i think i have a game plan now.. Thanks for all yalls help.. I do want a 4.30 diff (if i can find one), and go from my 2.5inch straight pipe to a 3inch setup... And i dont think il have too much trouble locating the gte manifold and ecu/harness.. I know a 7m hoarder ??..
 
1 - 18 of 18 Posts
Top