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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
There are different Igniter Part Numbers for the different year Celica Supra Igniters. The main differences are the cable connections and the bottom mounting plate.
The core electronic module is the same.

This is a comparison between the 89620-22360 from the 08/1984-07/1988 MX7X Cressida and the 89620-14361 from the 08/1983 - 11/1985 Supra. I strongly suspect that the same is true for the 89620-14430 01/86-04/93 Supra, 89620-14430 08/88-06/92 Supra, and the 89620-22480 08/88-07/90 MX8x Cressida, 7MGE non-turbo Igniters but I have not seen the internals of these so I could be wrong.

The normal way of changing these Igniters is to change the base over and then cut the Cressida Igniter plugs off of the wiring harness and to graft it onto the Supra harness.
This certainly works, but is not the neatest approach.

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The cable connectors were attached with crimps and covered in heat shrink tubing

The alternate and cleaner approach is to change the entire wiring harness in the Igniter from the Supra and attach it to the Cressida Igniter.
The result is a cleaner conversion. In fact one can remove the electronic module from the Cressida upper housing, exchange the harness and install the module and harness into the existing Supra upper housing. The result looks like the stock Igniter. When you change the electronic module you can clean the rear of the module of the old heat sink compound and apply new.

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Remove the 4 Phillips head screws. These are extremely difficult to remove. Apply a LOT of downward pressure to prevent the screwdriver from damaging the screw head.

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Once the base is removed you can see the electronic module. It is attached with the 3 Phillips head screws. Once removed the module lifts out. The heat sink compound is underneath and ensures good thermal contact with the upper Igniter housing.

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89620-22360 Cressida vs 89620-14361 Supra Igniter Wiring Comparison - Detail
One can see the module connectors are identical. The labels embossed on the black potting material are the same. The wire colours on the two modules are the same.

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The wire connector can be removed from the module with adequate heat from a soldering iron. Once hot the connector can be lifted off.
One should not apply too much heat for too long or you risk damaging the potting material and the electronic module.

I would like to see a 7MGE Igniter. I believe that the connections are identical and can be modified in the same way.

Dale
 

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Discussion Starter · #2 ·
For the earlier 1983-1984 cars, finding later modules and making them work is slightly different, but certainly doable.

The earlier Igniter from the 1983-1984 Mark II has the same electronic module as well, but the wiring harness has a different strain relief/seal on it. As a result, switching the wiring harness is not practical. Cutting the wires and reattaching the connectors is the way to make the newer part work on earlier cars.

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89620-14360 Igniter (08/1982 – 07/1983) Mk II

There was an equivalent Cressida Igniter than can be used with switching the wiring harness if you can find one.

89620-22300 (09/1980-06/1984) MX6x Cressida

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89620-14360 - Note the strain relief/seal where the wiring harness enters the housing.

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89620-14361 - Note the rectangular strain relief/seal where the wiring harness enters the housing.

In addition to having a different strain relief, they also use a different connector in combination with a different coil. These are 2-pin coils rather than the later version 3-pin coils. Their electronic modules are compatible with either coil, it is just a matter of matching harness to the coil. The 2-pin coils are harder to find new so if you don't have a working coil, you can switch the harness connector to the 3-pin type and purchase new aftermarket coils that fit perfectly.

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89620-14360 2-pin Coil connector of the earlier Igniter

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89620-14361 3-pin coil connector of the later style

I thought I would post this so that people with earlier style Igniters won't think that they can't swap Cressida or other Igniters into their cars too.

Dale
 

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Almost any older Toyota ignitor (and probably a lot of newer ones) could work. They all work fundamentally the same. The take a 5V IIRC input from the ECU trigger the spark and send a signal back that the circuit was completed. Problem you have is that after about 2000 everything was built into the coil packs so all your donors are well old.
 
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Great write up. A check of ebay indicates that there are quite a few of the later igniter assemblies available.

Edit: The thought occurs that if you are going to the trouble to unsolder the connections, you can swap the module into you old housing. Or would that be too anal........
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 · (Edited)
Great write up. A check of ebay indicates that there are quite a few of the later igniter assemblies available.

Edit: The thought occurs that if you are going to the trouble to unsolder the connections, you can swap the module into you old housing. Or would that be too anal........
That's why I started this thread. There were quite a few people looking for igniters the last month or so. While a Mk II Igniter is getting harder and more expensive to find, other Igniters certainly are out there. Us Mk II people may as well get them rather than Cressida and Mk III people! It's still some work to do the swap, especially if you don't have soldering or electrical cabling skills, but it's certainly doable. A mechanic or electronics person could certainly help a Mk II owner get this done without too much trouble.

It really is upsetting when your car is down when you can't find an obsolete part like this. I hope this helps someone out.

"The thought occurs that if you are going to the trouble to unsolder the connections, you can swap the module into your old housing. Or would that be too anal......."

I think that's perfectly logical. If you have to take the electronic module out anyway, why not install it into the original housing. That way the part number decal correctly identifies the part.

The forum has changed quite a lot over the years. In the past, keeping your daily runner going was the most important goal. While that's still true, a lot of the cars we are seeing now are striving to be as original as possible. Those who who are primarily hot rodders are often going to swap in other engines, so originality isn't a big deal for them. For cars that are starting to appreciate in value, originality is a big deal. Looking at the collector hobby for muscle cars, car shows deduct points for incorrect emission control parts or the wrong date coded parts.

If/when this happens in the future with the Mark II, having a Cressida Igniter in a Mark II will be a major faux pas! For the effort it takes, why not swap the module into the original housing?

If you go down this road, swapping one of these later igniters into 1982/3/early 84s is not correct. The coil connector and the circular strain relief are quite obvious. There must be a way of swapping the strain reliefs off of an early igniter cable onto a late igniter cable, but I don't know how to do it.

Something to think of in the years to come I guess.
 
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That's why I would like to find a original igniter, even if it is bad, so I could swap in a later module, and keep it in the car. In fact, one really only needs the connectors. Does Toyota sell them separately? I got stranded once when my igniter failed while l was away from home. Just tossed the old one. Who knew I might want it someday! It would be great to have a later igniter on the shelf for a spare, but you would still be down until you changed out the connectors, which ever way you do it.

Can I quote you to show my wife that someone believes that I can have a perfectly logical thought!

Bob
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Can I quote you to show my wife that someone believes that I can have a perfectly logical thought!

Bob
Of course you can quote me to show your wife. However my wife will tell your wife that I don't have any logical thoughts and then they'll just laugh together...

As for the connectors being sold separately...nope. Not when new, not now!

Dale
 
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Dale, Thank you for posting your awesome work here identifying what needs to be done to use a 89620-22360 ignitor in place of a 5MGE version.

Here's a picture from a '89 Supra 7MGE Ignitor 89620-14430 that I just bought the difference noted is there is only one black wire wire from the terminal "C" compared to the 5MGE ignitor you posted above...and the 22360 ignitor as well.

I haven't identified all the wires to connectors at this point but I believe you could add a 2nd black wire from terminal "C" and then use the 5MGE connectors to have a working ignitor from a 7MGE...

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89620-14430 from a '89 Supra 7MGE, ignitor connectors shown

Coil 2 wire connectors do match the 5MGE version


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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Dale, Thank you for posting your awesome work here identifying what needs to be done to use a 89620-22360 ignitor in place of a 5MGE version.

Here's a picture from a '89 Supra 7MGE Ignitor 89620-14430 that I just bought the difference noted is there is only one black wire wire from the terminal "C" compared to the 5MGE ignitor you posted above...and the 22360 ignitor as well.

I haven't identified all the wires to connectors at this point but I believe you could add a 2nd black wire from terminal "C" and then use the 5MGE connectors to have a working ignitor from a 7MGE...

View attachment 16253
Arch

I don’t have the schematics in front of me right now but iirc the missing black wire is the one leading to a capped connector that is only used for diagnostic purposes. It is labeled tach, but it is NOT the normal tachometer signal. I think it connects to a dedicated Toyota electronics tester to measure tach signal there. Frankly from a run your car view, you don’t really need it.

nice to have to make it look original, but not necessary

dale
 

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Dale, Great to know thanks!! I now have the 7MGE ignitor 89620-14430 and a 5MGE ignitor 89620-14361 as spares in the garage just in case...
 

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That unused connector on the igniter is the one that attaches to an analog voltmeter during the diagnostic system check. See pages FI-22 and FI-23 in the TRSM. The Check Engine Connector near the distributor is shorted out, and an analog voltmeter is attached to the extra connector on the igniter. As you say, an SST 09842-14010 connector is used to connect the voltmeter, but it looks as if a homemade one would not be too difficult to make. Or you could try to find an EFI checker SST 09991-00100 to read the codes.

Bob
 

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Bob, the EFI checker is an only for '82s and MA45/6s...the TCCS Tester would work as you mentioned for later MAs...only issue w the TCSS Tester is finding the 5MGE wiring harness...extremely hard to find...

That unused connector on the igniter is the one that attaches to an analog voltmeter during the diagnostic system check. See pages FI-22 and FI-23 in the TRSM. The Check Engine Connector near the distributor is shorted out, and an analog voltmeter is attached to the extra connector on the igniter. As you say, an SST 09842-14010 connector is used to connect the voltmeter, but it looks as if a homemade one would not be too difficult to make. Or you could try to find an EFI checker SST 09991-00100 to read the codes.

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Hi, 55 year old Supra newbie here (Danger!!)
I've read this great thread several times. I'm in the process of purchasing a 1983 P-type with original 5MGE engine. Supposedly has a blown igniter and/or coil. Would this one from a Cressida (89-92) be able to be modified to fill the bill?
Thanks in advance!


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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
It is dangerous to make assumptions about parts you have not seen, but I think it is safe to say that yes, it will have the same igniter core.
The 89-92 Cressida used a 7M-GE motor and the igniter on Mark III Supras with the normally aspirated 7M-GE motors is compatible with our cars assuming you change the connectors and base with the one from your failed igniter.

How's that for being wishy washy?

Dale
 
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Camsdad, Check your EFI fuse under the hood, power circuit breaker left qtr panel by your clutch pedal and you can check the ignitor follow the TSRM using a 9 volt battery IIRC...

Hi, 55 year old Supra newbie here (Danger!!)
I've read this great thread several times. I'm in the process of purchasing a 1983 P-type with original 5MGE engine. Supposedly has a blown igniter and/or coil. Would this one from a Cressida (89-92) be able to be modified to fill the bill?
Thanks in advance!


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Thanks, AJ! To be honest, i dont even have the car yet, but should have it in 2-3 weeks. I can't wait to start tinkering with it. I can tell I will get a lot of good information and help here!
Keith

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
Thanks, AJ! To be honest, i dont even have the car yet, but should have it in 2-3 weeks. I can't wait to start tinkering with it. I can tell I will get a lot of good information and help here!
Keith

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When the car's dead it's always a great bartering tool to get the car for a little less.
And using these Igniters from other cars you can often get them for under $75 if you're willing to do a bit of tinkering.
If the owner has been looking for a Mark II part he may realize how hard they are to find. He's probably anxious to get out of the driveway.

Good luck with the new car!

Dale
 

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Thanks again, Dale! You guys are most likely gonna get sick of me in the near future! I've wanted one of these wonderful cars since a high school buddy of mine had one passed down from his dad circa 1983-ish! The one I'm purchasing is no beauty queen, but i think it's a good starting point and something to work with. And....the price is very right, so that helps! When i do get it, what is the best section (category) to post photos, etc?? "New Restoration Projects" or something like that....lol.

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