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Toy used as inexpensive a transistor that could form a reliable ignitor. Use a larger power transistor (a bit more expensive0 and redesign the ignitor or copy a design from some library that could be found on google. Measure the ecu signal coming to the ignitor with your scope and the ecu output and ignitor input. Make a better thermal dissipating hardware setup to keep the transistor cool. This is ancient, ancient art and easily solvable without looking at the contents of the present ignitor if you want to spend the time and if you have a discrete transistor/FET design background.
 

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I agree, compared to what's being used today, this is flint knives and stone axes.

Still, I'd like a schematic of it for a starting point, so I'll make one after I get the unit Ray is sending me unpotted.

I used to design high-power motor controls and switching power supplies, so applying current (no pun intended) technology, and a little Google-Fu to it is no big deal.
 

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One sent to Dr. Jim today for his examination. That stuff inside is kind of like snot! OOOOOOWWWWW! Yucky! Thanks Stan S for making me look.
 

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Having done this many times, I'd rather put on some gloves to peel the "snot" out of there than get out the heavy equipment and jackhammer the epoxy out!

:zzzzz:

Jim
 

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drjim,

Did you ever have an opportunity to unpot the Ignitor and try to reverse engineer the circuit?

I don't need one, but it would be interesting to see the circuit.

Regards,

Dale
 

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I've unpotted it, taken lots of pix, and I'm still working on it.


NONE of the components have any markings on them, so they all have to be identified by physical inspection (the capacitors are all a brownish ceramic type), the number of connections to them (two connections = resistor or capacitor, 3 connections = transistor or dual diode), and then measured.

I've sketched a rough layout of the "foil" traces (it's a "thick-film" constrction on an alumina substrate), and mapped out the wires to the car's wiring, but that's about as far as I've gotten.

The next thing I have to do is convert the "foil" pattern into a schematic, and compare it to some other schematics to determine some of the values. The capacitors and resistors I can measure, but the semiconductors will have to be determined usinfg the SWAG method.
 

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SWAG = Scientific Wild Ass Guess ?

I would love to see the photos and trace of the foil pattern.

I really don't need one, but it's sort of fun to see if we can help make Mk IIs run into the next century!

Dale
 

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Yep, I see you know the SWAG method!

I'll dig up the pix and post them in the next couple of days. Got some "Home Owner" things to attend to.

Jim
 

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I'd be interested in following this as well. When I was having problems, I considered dissecting the igniter to see if I could build a replacement out of discrete components, but I didn't know if I'd destroy the unit opening the case. I have a spare now, but as we all know, having a stockpile of parts is only going to last so long. If we can identify the circuit layout of the igniter, I'm sure we could get an electronics specialist to build us a batch of replacements. Might even be higher quality than those available in the 80s!

Lot of information in this thread, +1 to drjim for trying and everyone who shared their electronics knowledge.
 

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All of these "My ignitor failed!" stories makes me want to mount my spare ignitor in the grille(IN a baggie) and run
the pigtails towards the old placement!

It's inside the jack cubby,now.

I have some scrap aluminum to mount it to.
Gee, I had better test the replacement first...DOHHHH!

Summer heat is coming and I don't want to have a "no-start"issue....ANYTIME.

The previous owner paid over $1,000 to the Dealer,back in 2003,(When they were a dlr. part) to have his ignotor diagnosed and replaced.
No,really!

That "hot soak" trouble I was having, may be related to the ignitor just getting too hot.

I'll go after reliability WAY B-4 looking for more horsepower or (a bling set of wheels or) new paint.
A new battery for $200,$400 for an aluminum radiator,$150 for Evans Cool? There goes my wheel budget.
Fixing some more oil leaks,replacing hoses:untold hours.

I would like it to start and run, every time I turn the key.
 

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Dave (ddd228), knowing your ingenuity, might be a good project. I've had an 83 and 84 igniter fail. Last major project I did I managed to break off the tach signal wire from the igniter when I was pulling out the coolant overflow tank (on the harness side, just at the plug) and had to go the junkyard to find a Toyota single wire green plug. Dealership was useless, but the parts department came out to look at the car! Got the plug off an 87 Previa. $3. My daily driver (250 WOR, locals will understand, and I paid $ to keep 250 WOR (and contested a $187 ticket for an invalid plate and was dismissed, unlike everyone before me in municipal court. Judge didn't even look at half the stuff I brought with me showing the meter maid was wrong - yes, my plate is out of the current sequence, but legal.)). Not the garage queen (Classic plates on this one - I got pulled over for expired tabs there too - expired by a couple decades, get a clue). I carry the RCW (Revised Code of Washington) statues on plates in my glove compartment, cop (Benton County Sheriff) got testy when I gave it to him. what's this? Um, it is the law (simplified version, he disputed that that my copy of RCW was the RCW, like I would be carrying around a fake version of the RCW regarding license plates). Petty. And ignorant of the laws of his state. Tickets = revenue, most do not contest.
 

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Dave (ddd228), knowing your ingenuity, might be a good project. I've had an 83 and 84 igniter fail. Last major project I did I managed to break off the tach signal wire from the igniter when I was pulling out the coolant overflow tank (on the harness side, just at the plug) and had to go the junkyard to find a Toyota single wire green plug. Dealership was useless, but the parts department came out to look at the car! Got the plug off an 87 Previa. $3. My daily driver (250 WOR, locals will understand, and I paid $ to keep 250 WOR (and contested a $187 ticket for an invalid plate and was dismissed, unlike everyone before me in municipal court. Judge didn't even look at half the stuff I brought with me showing the meter maid was wrong - yes, my plate is out of the current sequence, but legal.)). Not the garage queen (Classic plates on this one - I got pulled over for expired tabs there too - expired by a couple decades, get a clue). I carry the RCW (Revised Code of Washington) statues on plates in my glove compartment, cop (Benton County Sheriff) got testy when I gave it to him. what's this? Um, it is the law (simplified version, he disputed that that my copy of RCW was the RCW, like I would be carrying around a fake version of the RCW regarding license plates). Petty. And ignorant of the laws of his state. Tickets = revenue, most do not contest.
WHAT? '87 previa has the SAME plug?
I'll just run the wires to the new location and mount my SPARE ignitor whever it fits,out from the underhood heat!

You are smarter than the average bear,Rich.
Outsmarted a Cop.
That that,dumb-ass....Sir.
 

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If the igniter fails you can take it apart and take one that doesn't quite plug in from a different toyota, and desolder the harness, and make a template from the factory one showing you where the wires go, and then solder the wires from the old one to the board of the new one. I think i'm running an 84 or 85 igniter, pretty sure. Its the igniter from the car my "new" ecu came out of. Had to do this.
 

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Toyota did some changes from '82 to'86 to the ignition systems. Too bad for us!
Seems like every 2 years,they did something to change the way the coil was fired.
Yeah,some people did figure it out and tossed the stock shit and went DIS crank triggered.
All aftermarket.
No parts! There are few ignitors on ebay:eek:verpriced,too.

Know your Toyota part numbers!

5M,6M...
What came on a Cressy/Soaurer(WHAT?) may work. Never seen one.Crown? Huh?
Toyota trucks,too.
What did I miss?
Tractors/combines/Aussie cars?
 

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So I took my igniter apart today. I found that they used a thick silicone paste as a heat transfer agent from the module to the case. Modern heat sink compounds containing zinc oxide or even silver compounds are much more efficient at transferring heat than the older pure silicone types.
The factory application wasn't even very well done as it covered only about 75% of the surface area of the module. I cleaned off the old stuff and applied a thin layer of a modern compound. I swear, you can't even look at that stuff without it getting on you! My little igniter module should be happy now for many more miles (knocks wood).
 

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Hey guys,

Bumping an old thread because I was flicking through eBay for parts and noticed this:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Tridon-Ignition-Module-TIM056-fits-TOYOTA-SUPRA-2-8-2-8-i-/252014366448

Given the general un-availability of parts for the 5M, this was quite a surprise. It's expensive, but it looks like a viable replacement for the electronic module from the stock 5M (at least mine - it looks like it has the same connectors). Anyone seen this before?

Those wondering about dissecting an igniter to determine the circuitry, maybe this could be a better start.
 

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Ray gave me one to dissect so I could come up with a schematic. I've taken it apart and cleaned both the silicone paste off the back (what a mess!), and the clear "gorilla snot" they used to encapsulate it.

I thought it would be a simple process, but none of the parts have any type of part number on them. So, while I have a "foil pattern" of all the connections between the parts (ceramic "chip" capacitors, chip resistors and few semiconductors, all surface mount), I kinda stalled on the project.

-Jim
 

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Tridon website shows the TIM056 for the 5M-E SOHC engine. It includes just 2 of the green circular connectors and no black one for the coil -- so some re-wiring would be involved (at a minimum) and whatever instructions that it includes may not completely address all US Supras.
 

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Has anyone successfully replaced the stock MKII igniter with a newer Toyota igniter? I see 300ZX Z31 owners have an easy upgrade using a newer model igniter that is standard on millions of 90's models (Altima, Maxima and Sentras), which you can get for next to nothing at pull-a-part yards. (google Z31 PRW-2 mod). Don't want to recreate the wheel if this is something that has been done and proven.
 
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